pg.ddx.io pgsql-docs@postgresql.org mailing list archive
help / color / mirror / Atom feedPublishing Postgres Manual as a book
11+ messages / 4 participants
[nested] [flat]
* Publishing Postgres Manual as a book
@ 2023-03-23 01:35 Siddharth Jain <siddhsql@gmail.com>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Siddharth Jain @ 2023-03-23 01:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pgsql-docs@lists.postgresql.org
Hello,
The Postgres Manual is available online as a PDF but I think having it in a
book form could be useful to some.
Is it legal for me to publish the manual as a book? I cannot find any email
address on PostgreSQL website to ask such questions. This is the closest
mailing list I could find.
S.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Publishing Postgres Manual as a book
@ 2023-03-23 03:22 Erik Wienhold <ewie@ewie.name>
parent: Siddharth Jain <siddhsql@gmail.com>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Erik Wienhold @ 2023-03-23 03:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Siddharth Jain <siddhsql@gmail.com>; pgsql-docs@lists.postgresql.org
> On 23/03/2023 02:35 CET Siddharth Jain <siddhsql@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The Postgres Manual is available online as a PDF but I think having it in a
> book form could be useful to some.
>
> Is it legal for me to publish the manual as a book?
IANAL, but I'd say yes as long as you don't take a fee. The legal notice of
the documentation grants distribution of the documentation "for any purpose,
without fee". [0] Also mind the trademark policy. [1]
[0] https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/legalnotice.html
[1] https://www.postgresql.org/about/policies/trademarks/
--
Erik
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Publishing Postgres Manual as a book
@ 2023-03-23 03:34 Ian Lawrence Barwick <barwick@gmail.com>
parent: Erik Wienhold <ewie@ewie.name>
0 siblings, 2 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Ian Lawrence Barwick @ 2023-03-23 03:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Erik Wienhold <ewie@ewie.name>; +Cc: Siddharth Jain <siddhsql@gmail.com>; pgsql-docs@lists.postgresql.org
2023年3月23日(木) 12:23 Erik Wienhold <ewie@ewie.name>:
>
> > On 23/03/2023 02:35 CET Siddharth Jain <siddhsql@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > The Postgres Manual is available online as a PDF but I think having it in a
> > book form could be useful to some.
> >
> > Is it legal for me to publish the manual as a book?
>
> IANAL, but I'd say yes as long as you don't take a fee. The legal notice of
> the documentation grants distribution of the documentation "for any purpose,
> without fee".
Also not a lawyer, but the full sentence is:
> Permission to use, copy, modify, and distribute this software and its
> documentation for any purpose, without fee, and without a written agreement is
> hereby granted
which in my non-lawyerly interpretation means anyone copying, modifying and
distributing the documentation may do so without paying a fee. A distributor
could charge what they like. AFAIR the documentation has previously been
published in book form, though as it runs to about 3,000 A4 pages now,
the logistics are non-trivial.
Regards
Ian Barwick
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Publishing Postgres Manual as a book
@ 2023-03-23 03:59 Ian Lawrence Barwick <barwick@gmail.com>
parent: Ian Lawrence Barwick <barwick@gmail.com>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Ian Lawrence Barwick @ 2023-03-23 03:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Erik Wienhold <ewie@ewie.name>; +Cc: Siddharth Jain <siddhsql@gmail.com>; pgsql-docs@lists.postgresql.org
2023年3月23日(木) 12:34 Ian Lawrence Barwick <barwick@gmail.com>:
>
> 2023年3月23日(木) 12:23 Erik Wienhold <ewie@ewie.name>:
> >
> > > On 23/03/2023 02:35 CET Siddharth Jain <siddhsql@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > The Postgres Manual is available online as a PDF but I think having it in a
> > > book form could be useful to some.
> > >
> > > Is it legal for me to publish the manual as a book?
> >
> > IANAL, but I'd say yes as long as you don't take a fee. The legal notice of
> > the documentation grants distribution of the documentation "for any purpose,
> > without fee".
>
> Also not a lawyer, but the full sentence is:
>
> > Permission to use, copy, modify, and distribute this software and its
> > documentation for any purpose, without fee, and without a written agreement is
> > hereby granted
>
> which in my non-lawyerly interpretation means anyone copying, modifying and
> distributing the documentation may do so without paying a fee. A distributor
> could charge what they like. AFAIR the documentation has previously been
> published in book form
e.g.: https://www.amazon.com/PostgreSQL-9-0-Official-Documentation-Language/dp/1596822465
> though as it runs to about 3,000 A4 pages now, the logistics are non-trivial.
The PostgreSQL 15 A4 PDF has 2854 pages.
Regards
Ian Barwick
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Publishing Postgres Manual as a book
@ 2023-03-23 04:02 Erik Wienhold <ewie@ewie.name>
parent: Ian Lawrence Barwick <barwick@gmail.com>
1 sibling, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Erik Wienhold @ 2023-03-23 04:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Ian Lawrence Barwick <barwick@gmail.com>; +Cc: Siddharth Jain <siddhsql@gmail.com>; pgsql-docs@lists.postgresql.org
> On 23/03/2023 04:34 CET Ian Lawrence Barwick <barwick@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> 2023年3月23日(木) 12:23 Erik Wienhold <ewie@ewie.name>:
> >
> > > On 23/03/2023 02:35 CET Siddharth Jain <siddhsql@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > The Postgres Manual is available online as a PDF but I think having it in a
> > > book form could be useful to some.
> > >
> > > Is it legal for me to publish the manual as a book?
> >
> > IANAL, but I'd say yes as long as you don't take a fee. The legal notice of
> > the documentation grants distribution of the documentation "for any purpose,
> > without fee".
>
> Also not a lawyer, but the full sentence is:
>
> > Permission to use, copy, modify, and distribute this software and its
> > documentation for any purpose, without fee, and without a written agreement is
> > hereby granted
>
> which in my non-lawyerly interpretation means anyone copying, modifying and
> distributing the documentation may do so without paying a fee. A distributor
> could charge what they like.
I know the fee clause from licenses such as Zero-Clause BSD, ISC License, and
GPLv3. They state "with or without fee" or "gratis or for a fee" pertaining to
the distribution. That's also how I interpret the fee clause in the PostgreSQL
license with the difference that it does not permit taking a fee.
> AFAIR the documentation has previously been published in book form, though as
> it runs to about 3,000 A4 pages now, the logistics are non-trivial.
It's also out of date pretty quickly with four releases a year.
--
Erik
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Publishing Postgres Manual as a book
@ 2023-03-23 04:33 Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
parent: Erik Wienhold <ewie@ewie.name>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Tom Lane @ 2023-03-23 04:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Erik Wienhold <ewie@ewie.name>; +Cc: Ian Lawrence Barwick <barwick@gmail.com>; Siddharth Jain <siddhsql@gmail.com>; pgsql-docs@lists.postgresql.org
Erik Wienhold <ewie@ewie.name> writes:
> On 23/03/2023 04:34 CET Ian Lawrence Barwick <barwick@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Also not a lawyer, but the full sentence is:
>>> Permission to use, copy, modify, and distribute this software and its
>>> documentation for any purpose, without fee, and without a written agreement is
>>> hereby granted
>> which in my non-lawyerly interpretation means anyone copying, modifying and
>> distributing the documentation may do so without paying a fee. A distributor
>> could charge what they like.
> I know the fee clause from licenses such as Zero-Clause BSD, ISC License, and
> GPLv3. They state "with or without fee" or "gratis or for a fee" pertaining to
> the distribution. That's also how I interpret the fee clause in the PostgreSQL
> license with the difference that it does not permit taking a fee.
No, I agree with Ian: our license says that the Postgres project does not
require a fee. It does not say that someone redistributing the material
can't charge for their efforts. It would obviously be ridiculous to
expect someone to print a multi-thousand-page book and then give it away
for free.
I do question the practicality and environmental cost of putting such
short-lived material on dead trees, though ...
regards, tom lane
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Publishing Postgres Manual as a book
@ 2023-03-23 15:46 Siddharth Jain <siddhsql@gmail.com>
parent: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Siddharth Jain @ 2023-03-23 15:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>; +Cc: Erik Wienhold <ewie@ewie.name>; Ian Lawrence Barwick <barwick@gmail.com>; pgsql-docs@lists.postgresql.org
Thanks All. Appreciate your responses.
On Wed, Mar 22, 2023 at 9:33 PM Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote:
> Erik Wienhold <ewie@ewie.name> writes:
> > On 23/03/2023 04:34 CET Ian Lawrence Barwick <barwick@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Also not a lawyer, but the full sentence is:
>
> >>> Permission to use, copy, modify, and distribute this software and its
> >>> documentation for any purpose, without fee, and without a written
> agreement is
> >>> hereby granted
>
> >> which in my non-lawyerly interpretation means anyone copying, modifying
> and
> >> distributing the documentation may do so without paying a fee. A
> distributor
> >> could charge what they like.
>
> > I know the fee clause from licenses such as Zero-Clause BSD, ISC
> License, and
> > GPLv3. They state "with or without fee" or "gratis or for a fee"
> pertaining to
> > the distribution. That's also how I interpret the fee clause in the
> PostgreSQL
> > license with the difference that it does not permit taking a fee.
>
> No, I agree with Ian: our license says that the Postgres project does not
> require a fee. It does not say that someone redistributing the material
> can't charge for their efforts. It would obviously be ridiculous to
> expect someone to print a multi-thousand-page book and then give it away
> for free.
>
> I do question the practicality and environmental cost of putting such
> short-lived material on dead trees, though ...
>
> regards, tom lane
>
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Publishing Postgres Manual as a book
@ 2023-03-23 17:07 Siddharth Jain <siddhsql@gmail.com>
parent: Siddharth Jain <siddhsql@gmail.com>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Siddharth Jain @ 2023-03-23 17:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>; +Cc: Erik Wienhold <ewie@ewie.name>; Ian Lawrence Barwick <barwick@gmail.com>; pgsql-docs@lists.postgresql.org
to follow up, does Postgres have any official legal contact person / email
address? i can't find any on the website.
S.
On Thu, Mar 23, 2023 at 8:46 AM Siddharth Jain <siddhsql@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks All. Appreciate your responses.
>
> On Wed, Mar 22, 2023 at 9:33 PM Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote:
>
>> Erik Wienhold <ewie@ewie.name> writes:
>> > On 23/03/2023 04:34 CET Ian Lawrence Barwick <barwick@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> Also not a lawyer, but the full sentence is:
>>
>> >>> Permission to use, copy, modify, and distribute this software and its
>> >>> documentation for any purpose, without fee, and without a written
>> agreement is
>> >>> hereby granted
>>
>> >> which in my non-lawyerly interpretation means anyone copying,
>> modifying and
>> >> distributing the documentation may do so without paying a fee. A
>> distributor
>> >> could charge what they like.
>>
>> > I know the fee clause from licenses such as Zero-Clause BSD, ISC
>> License, and
>> > GPLv3. They state "with or without fee" or "gratis or for a fee"
>> pertaining to
>> > the distribution. That's also how I interpret the fee clause in the
>> PostgreSQL
>> > license with the difference that it does not permit taking a fee.
>>
>> No, I agree with Ian: our license says that the Postgres project does not
>> require a fee. It does not say that someone redistributing the material
>> can't charge for their efforts. It would obviously be ridiculous to
>> expect someone to print a multi-thousand-page book and then give it away
>> for free.
>>
>> I do question the practicality and environmental cost of putting such
>> short-lived material on dead trees, though ...
>>
>> regards, tom lane
>>
>
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Publishing Postgres Manual as a book
@ 2023-03-23 17:16 Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
parent: Siddharth Jain <siddhsql@gmail.com>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Tom Lane @ 2023-03-23 17:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Siddharth Jain <siddhsql@gmail.com>; +Cc: Erik Wienhold <ewie@ewie.name>; Ian Lawrence Barwick <barwick@gmail.com>; pgsql-docs@lists.postgresql.org
Siddharth Jain <siddhsql@gmail.com> writes:
> to follow up, does Postgres have any official legal contact person / email
> address? i can't find any on the website.
Typically, legal questions should be sent to the core team.
(To clarify: although I am a core team member, my previous response
was not speaking for core, just myself.)
regards, tom lane
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Publishing Postgres Manual as a book
@ 2023-03-23 18:45 Siddharth Jain <siddhsql@gmail.com>
parent: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Siddharth Jain @ 2023-03-23 18:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>; +Cc: Erik Wienhold <ewie@ewie.name>; Ian Lawrence Barwick <barwick@gmail.com>; pgsql-docs@lists.postgresql.org
Thanks Tom. what is the email alias of the core team? i don't see any core
alias below.
[image: image.png]
i also tried looking at https://www.postgresql.org/about/contact/ but
nothing with core pops up.
On Thu, Mar 23, 2023 at 10:16 AM Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote:
> Siddharth Jain <siddhsql@gmail.com> writes:
> > to follow up, does Postgres have any official legal contact person /
> email
> > address? i can't find any on the website.
>
> Typically, legal questions should be sent to the core team.
>
> (To clarify: although I am a core team member, my previous response
> was not speaking for core, just myself.)
>
> regards, tom lane
>
Attachments:
[image/png] image.png (445.3K, ../../CAPqV3pT85c1brG5y_jYB__FePCZtgoUQhzncLgcqYx=OMxYEyw@mail.gmail.com/3-image.png)
download | view image
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Publishing Postgres Manual as a book
@ 2023-03-23 18:46 Siddharth Jain <siddhsql@gmail.com>
parent: Siddharth Jain <siddhsql@gmail.com>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Siddharth Jain @ 2023-03-23 18:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>; +Cc: Erik Wienhold <ewie@ewie.name>; Ian Lawrence Barwick <barwick@gmail.com>; pgsql-docs@lists.postgresql.org
nevermind. i have got it.
On Thu, Mar 23, 2023 at 11:45 AM Siddharth Jain <siddhsql@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks Tom. what is the email alias of the core team? i don't see any core
> alias below.
>
> [image: image.png]
> i also tried looking at https://www.postgresql.org/about/contact/ but
> nothing with core pops up.
>
> On Thu, Mar 23, 2023 at 10:16 AM Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote:
>
>> Siddharth Jain <siddhsql@gmail.com> writes:
>> > to follow up, does Postgres have any official legal contact person /
>> email
>> > address? i can't find any on the website.
>>
>> Typically, legal questions should be sent to the core team.
>>
>> (To clarify: although I am a core team member, my previous response
>> was not speaking for core, just myself.)
>>
>> regards, tom lane
>>
>
Attachments:
[image/png] image.png (445.3K, ../../CAPqV3pRCJ7eDOXSnw0-N7WUa2m++owDFHJy2KPg6i86bjNjx=Q@mail.gmail.com/3-image.png)
download | view image
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 11+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2023-03-23 18:46 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 11+ messages (download: mbox mbox.gz follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2023-03-23 01:35 Publishing Postgres Manual as a book Siddharth Jain <siddhsql@gmail.com>
2023-03-23 03:22 ` Erik Wienhold <ewie@ewie.name>
2023-03-23 03:34 ` Ian Lawrence Barwick <barwick@gmail.com>
2023-03-23 03:59 ` Ian Lawrence Barwick <barwick@gmail.com>
2023-03-23 04:02 ` Erik Wienhold <ewie@ewie.name>
2023-03-23 04:33 ` Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2023-03-23 15:46 ` Siddharth Jain <siddhsql@gmail.com>
2023-03-23 17:07 ` Siddharth Jain <siddhsql@gmail.com>
2023-03-23 17:16 ` Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2023-03-23 18:45 ` Siddharth Jain <siddhsql@gmail.com>
2023-03-23 18:46 ` Siddharth Jain <siddhsql@gmail.com>
This inbox is served by DDX for PostgreSQL; see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox