From: Steve Lane <slane@moyergroup.com>
To: Advocacy (PostgreSQL) <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>
To: PostgreSQL-general <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
Subject: Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 00:25:23 -0500
Message-ID: <BB1BF973.3264B%slane@moyergroup.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <16073.1056340630@sss.pgh.pa.us>
On 6/22/03 10:57 PM, "Tom Lane" <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote:
> Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@dcc.uchile.cl> writes:
>> Better hurry. Sterling Hughes is proposing to enable SQlite support by
>> default; that move could be bad for the lobbying of activating Pg
>> support.
>
> SQlite? Sure, give it a try. (I was slightly astonished to compare
> these two pages:
> http://www.hwaci.com/sw/sqlite/omitted.html
> http://www.hwaci.com/sw/sqlite/datatypes.html
> At the very least, one would have to say that the author feels free
> to define those parts of SQL he doesn't like as "not features". There
> sure isn't anything on the former page to suggest that vast parts of
> the SQL spec are being ignored per the latter page.)
>
> SQlite is even less competition from our point of view than MySQL is
> ... if the PHP guys think their users will be satisfied with SQlite,
> let them try it for awhile.
No, with all due respect, don't.
These battles aren't won by being a better product. They're won by being
used by more people. And generally speaking, one thing tends to win, whether
it's the best or not.
If you want to exploit this opportunity (which I fervently recommend) than
you should make a big push to have postgres be THE database for PHP. People
latch onto MySQL because it's joined at the hip with PHP. The way to replace
it in that position is, well, by replacing it. MySQL wins, in part, by
piggybacking on the ubiquity of PHP. Let's just replace it with Postgres in
that role, if possible.
>
> I'd be happy if PHP would adopt a database-neutral stance, ie, nothing
> in particular bundled into their core distribution. That might not be
> compatible with their project goals though. Anyone have a feeling about
> how important it is to them to have bundled DB support? Maybe we could
> talk them into bundling more than one DB interface --- if they put both
> PG and SQlite support into their distro, that'd be fine with me too.
Again, I think a bit of ruthlessness is called for here. You don't want to
coexist. You want to be the default, period.
I mean, assuming that IS what you want :-> It's certainly what I'd like to
see, as a heavy user of both PHP and Postgres.
I'd recommend a semi-formal approach of the Postgres core team to the PHP
core team, asking, in effect, what does the Postgres group need to do to get
pgsql bundled up tight with PHP. If there's discontent there, now's the time
to capitalize on it. Imagine this press release: "PHP team 'unbundles' MySQL
in favor of Postgres". Game over.
I'm trying to get lined up to give a talk on Postgres at the next PHPCon.
From what I understand, PHPers are eager to hear more about it.
This seems like a huge opportunity that should be seized with both hands
(heck, ALL available hands).
-- sgl
=======================================================
Steve Lane
Vice President
The Moyer Group
14 North Peoria St Suite 2H
Chicago, IL 60607
Voice: (312) 433-2421 Email: slane@moyergroup.com
Fax: (312) 850-3930 Web: http://www.moyergroup.com
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To: pgsql-docs@postgresql.org
Cc: slane@moyergroup.com, pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org, pgsql-general@postgresql.org
Subject: Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
In-Reply-To: <BB1BF973.3264B%slane@moyergroup.com>
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