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* Default Value Retention After Dropping Default
@ 2025-02-24 07:56 Marcelo Fernandes <[email protected]>
2025-02-24 11:50 ` Re: Default Value Retention After Dropping Default Laurenz Albe <[email protected]>
2025-02-24 16:00 ` Re: Default Value Retention After Dropping Default Adrian Klaver <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 2 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: Marcelo Fernandes @ 2025-02-24 07:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: [email protected]
Hi folks,
I am experiencing an interesting behavior in PostgreSQL and would like to seek
some clarification.
In the following snippet, I first add a column with a default value, then drop
that default. However, when I query the table, the column still retains the
dropped default for existing rows:
SET client_min_messages=debug1;
DROP TABLE IF EXISTS foo CASCADE;
CREATE TABLE foo (id SERIAL PRIMARY KEY);
INSERT INTO foo (id) SELECT generate_series(1, 10000);
ALTER TABLE foo ADD COLUMN bar varchar(255) NOT NULL DEFAULT 'default';
ALTER TABLE foo ALTER COLUMN bar DROP DEFAULT;
SELECT * from foo order by id desc limit 5;
-- id | bar
-- -------+---------
-- 10000 | default
-- 9999 | default
-- 9998 | default
-- 9997 | default
-- 9996 | default
In this example, even after dropping the default value from the bar column, the
rows that were previously inserted (prior to dropping the default) still show
'default' as their value in the bar column.
It does not see that the table has been rewritten or rescanned, otherwise the
debug1 messages would be triggered.
Can anyone explain how PostgreSQL "knows about" the default value that has just
been dropped and what is happened under the scenes? I am keen on a deep
understanding on how Postgres achieves this.
Here is what I could find in the docs, but it does not satisfy my question:
> From PostgreSQL 11, adding a column with a constant default value no longer
> means that each row of the table needs to be updated when the ALTER TABLE
> statement is executed. Instead, the default value will be returned the next
> time the row is accessed, and applied when the table is rewritten, making the
> ALTER TABLE very fast even on large tables.
https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/ddl-alter.html#DDL-ALTER-ADDING-A-COLUMN
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 5+ messages in thread
* Re: Default Value Retention After Dropping Default
2025-02-24 07:56 Default Value Retention After Dropping Default Marcelo Fernandes <[email protected]>
@ 2025-02-24 11:50 ` Laurenz Albe <[email protected]>
2025-02-24 16:37 ` Re: Default Value Retention After Dropping Default Adrian Klaver <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread
From: Laurenz Albe @ 2025-02-24 11:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Marcelo Fernandes <[email protected]>; [email protected]
On Mon, 2025-02-24 at 20:56 +1300, Marcelo Fernandes wrote:
> I am experiencing an interesting behavior in PostgreSQL and would like to seek
> some clarification.
>
> In the following snippet, I first add a column with a default value, then drop
> that default. However, when I query the table, the column still retains the
> dropped default for existing rows:
>
> SET client_min_messages=debug1;
>
> DROP TABLE IF EXISTS foo CASCADE;
> CREATE TABLE foo (id SERIAL PRIMARY KEY);
>
> INSERT INTO foo (id) SELECT generate_series(1, 10000);
>
> ALTER TABLE foo ADD COLUMN bar varchar(255) NOT NULL DEFAULT 'default';
> ALTER TABLE foo ALTER COLUMN bar DROP DEFAULT;
>
> SELECT * from foo order by id desc limit 5;
> -- id | bar
> -- -------+---------
> -- 10000 | default
> -- 9999 | default
> -- 9998 | default
> -- 9997 | default
> -- 9996 | default
>
> In this example, even after dropping the default value from the bar column, the
> rows that were previously inserted (prior to dropping the default) still show
> 'default' as their value in the bar column.
>
> It does not see that the table has been rewritten or rescanned, otherwise the
> debug1 messages would be triggered.
>
> Can anyone explain how PostgreSQL "knows about" the default value that has just
> been dropped and what is happened under the scenes? I am keen on a deep
> understanding on how Postgres achieves this.
The "missing value" is stored in pg_attribute.admissingval:
SELECT attmissingval
FROM pg_attribute
WHERE attrelid = 'foo'::regclass
AND attname = 'bar';
attmissingval
═══════════════
{default}
(1 row)
That value is used for all rows that don't yet physically have the column.
Yours,
Laurenz Albe
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^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 5+ messages in thread
* Re: Default Value Retention After Dropping Default
2025-02-24 07:56 Default Value Retention After Dropping Default Marcelo Fernandes <[email protected]>
2025-02-24 11:50 ` Re: Default Value Retention After Dropping Default Laurenz Albe <[email protected]>
@ 2025-02-24 16:37 ` Adrian Klaver <[email protected]>
2025-02-24 17:06 ` Re: Default Value Retention After Dropping Default David G. Johnston <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread
From: Adrian Klaver @ 2025-02-24 16:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Laurenz Albe <[email protected]>; Marcelo Fernandes <[email protected]>; [email protected]
On 2/24/25 03:50, Laurenz Albe wrote:
> On Mon, 2025-02-24 at 20:56 +1300, Marcelo Fernandes wrote:
>> I am experiencing an interesting behavior in PostgreSQL and would like to seek
>> some clarification.
>>
>> Can anyone explain how PostgreSQL "knows about" the default value that has just
>> been dropped and what is happened under the scenes? I am keen on a deep
>> understanding on how Postgres achieves this.
>
> The "missing value" is stored in pg_attribute.admissingval:
>
> SELECT attmissingval
> FROM pg_attribute
> WHERE attrelid = 'foo'::regclass
> AND attname = 'bar';
>
> attmissingval
> ═══════════════
> {default}
> (1 row)
>
> That value is used for all rows that don't yet physically have the column.
That answers this part of the process:
ALTER TABLE foo ADD COLUMN bar varchar(255) NOT NULL DEFAULT 'default';
I believe the OP is asking about this:
ALTER TABLE foo ALTER COLUMN bar DROP DEFAULT;
Because if after dropping the DEFAULT you do this:
INSERT INTO foo (id) SELECT generate_series(1001, 1010);
You get:
ERROR: null value in column "bar" of relation "foo" violates not-null
constraint
DETAIL: Failing row contains (1001, null).
The DEFAULT is no longer in use, but the values still exist in the
previously entered rows:
SELECT * from foo order by id desc limit 5;
id | bar
-------+---------
10000 | default
9999 | default
9998 | default
9997 | default
9996 | default
>
> Yours,
> Laurenz Albe
>
--
Adrian Klaver
[email protected]
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 5+ messages in thread
* Re: Default Value Retention After Dropping Default
2025-02-24 07:56 Default Value Retention After Dropping Default Marcelo Fernandes <[email protected]>
2025-02-24 11:50 ` Re: Default Value Retention After Dropping Default Laurenz Albe <[email protected]>
2025-02-24 16:37 ` Re: Default Value Retention After Dropping Default Adrian Klaver <[email protected]>
@ 2025-02-24 17:06 ` David G. Johnston <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: David G. Johnston @ 2025-02-24 17:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Adrian Klaver <[email protected]>; +Cc: Laurenz Albe <[email protected]>; Marcelo Fernandes <[email protected]>; [email protected]
On Mon, Feb 24, 2025 at 9:37 AM Adrian Klaver <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On 2/24/25 03:50, Laurenz Albe wrote:
> > On Mon, 2025-02-24 at 20:56 +1300, Marcelo Fernandes wrote:
> >> I am experiencing an interesting behavior in PostgreSQL and would like
> to seek
> >> some clarification.
>
>
> >>
> >> Can anyone explain how PostgreSQL "knows about" the default value that
> has just
> >> been dropped and what is happened under the scenes? I am keen on a deep
> >> understanding on how Postgres achieves this.
> >
> > The "missing value" is stored in pg_attribute.admissingval:
> >
> > SELECT attmissingval
> > FROM pg_attribute
> > WHERE attrelid = 'foo'::regclass
> > AND attname = 'bar';
> >
> > attmissingval
> > ═══════════════
> > {default}
> > (1 row)
> >
> > That value is used for all rows that don't yet physically have the
> column.
>
> That answers this part of the process:
>
> ALTER TABLE foo ADD COLUMN bar varchar(255) NOT NULL DEFAULT 'default';
>
> I believe the OP is asking about this:
>
> ALTER TABLE foo ALTER COLUMN bar DROP DEFAULT;
>
> Because if after dropping the DEFAULT you do this:
>
> INSERT INTO foo (id) SELECT generate_series(1001, 1010);
>
> You get:
>
> ERROR: null value in column "bar" of relation "foo" violates not-null
> constraint
> DETAIL: Failing row contains (1001, null).
>
> The DEFAULT is no longer in use, but the values still exist in the
> previously entered rows:
>
The alter table command established a persistent substitute value for the
new column, for all existing rows, when it was executed. While the value
of the substitute is equal to the non-volatile default specified for the
column it is an independent thing. Subsequently dropping or changing the
default does not impact this substitute value. There is no way to impact
the substitute value via SQL that I know of.
David J.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 5+ messages in thread
* Re: Default Value Retention After Dropping Default
2025-02-24 07:56 Default Value Retention After Dropping Default Marcelo Fernandes <[email protected]>
@ 2025-02-24 16:00 ` Adrian Klaver <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: Adrian Klaver @ 2025-02-24 16:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Marcelo Fernandes <[email protected]>; [email protected]
On 2/23/25 23:56, Marcelo Fernandes wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I am experiencing an interesting behavior in PostgreSQL and would like to seek
> some clarification.
>
> In the following snippet, I first add a column with a default value, then drop
> that default. However, when I query the table, the column still retains the
> dropped default for existing rows:
>
> SET client_min_messages=debug1;
>
> DROP TABLE IF EXISTS foo CASCADE;
> CREATE TABLE foo (id SERIAL PRIMARY KEY);
>
> INSERT INTO foo (id) SELECT generate_series(1, 10000);
>
> ALTER TABLE foo ADD COLUMN bar varchar(255) NOT NULL DEFAULT 'default';
> ALTER TABLE foo ALTER COLUMN bar DROP DEFAULT;
>
> SELECT * from foo order by id desc limit 5;
> -- id | bar
> -- -------+---------
> -- 10000 | default
> -- 9999 | default
> -- 9998 | default
> -- 9997 | default
> -- 9996 | default
>
> In this example, even after dropping the default value from the bar column, the
> rows that were previously inserted (prior to dropping the default) still show
> 'default' as their value in the bar column.
From
https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/sql-createtable.html
"
DEFAULT default_expr
The DEFAULT clause assigns a default data value for the column
whose column definition it appears within. The value is any
variable-free expression (in particular, cross-references to other
columns in the current table are not allowed). Subqueries are not
allowed either. The data type of the default expression must match the
data type of the column.
The default expression will be used in any insert operation that
does not specify a value for the column. If there is no default for a
column, then the default is null.
"
The DEFAULT is just a value that is entered when you do not explicitly
provide a value for a given field. That value is saved just like any
other value and will not disappear once it is no longer the DEFAULT.
>
> It does not see that the table has been rewritten or rescanned, otherwise the
> debug1 messages would be triggered.
>
> Can anyone explain how PostgreSQL "knows about" the default value that has just
> been dropped and what is happened under the scenes? I am keen on a deep
> understanding on how Postgres achieves this.
>
> Here is what I could find in the docs, but it does not satisfy my question:
>
>> From PostgreSQL 11, adding a column with a constant default value no longer
>> means that each row of the table needs to be updated when the ALTER TABLE
>> statement is executed. Instead, the default value will be returned the next
>> time the row is accessed, and applied when the table is rewritten, making the
>> ALTER TABLE very fast even on large tables.
>
> https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/ddl-alter.html#DDL-ALTER-ADDING-A-COLUMN
>
>
--
Adrian Klaver
[email protected]
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 5+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2025-02-24 17:06 UTC | newest]
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2025-02-24 07:56 Default Value Retention After Dropping Default Marcelo Fernandes <[email protected]>
2025-02-24 11:50 ` Laurenz Albe <[email protected]>
2025-02-24 16:37 ` Adrian Klaver <[email protected]>
2025-02-24 17:06 ` David G. Johnston <[email protected]>
2025-02-24 16:00 ` Adrian Klaver <[email protected]>
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