From: Stephen Frost <sfrost@snowman.net>
To: Andres Freund <andres@anarazel.de>
Cc: Robert Haas <robertmhaas@gmail.com>
Cc: Michael Paquier <michael.paquier@gmail.com>
Cc: Masahiko Sawada <sawada.mshk@gmail.com>
Cc: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org <pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org>
Subject: Re: Reviewing freeze map code
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 16:18:19 -0400
Message-ID: <20160606201819.GW21416@tamriel.snowman.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20160606200638.6dxg7oznyqtbwgvi@alap3.anarazel.de>
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Andres, all,
* Andres Freund (andres@anarazel.de) wrote:
> On 2016-06-06 15:16:10 -0400, Robert Haas wrote:
> > On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 2:35 PM, Andres Freund <andres@anarazel.de> wrote:
> > and like you have the right to tell assign me arbitrary work, which I
> > think you don't.
>
> It's not like adding a parameter for this would be a lot of work,
> there's even a patch out there. I'm getting impatient because I feel
> the issue of this critical feature not being testable is getting ignored
> and/or played down. And then sidetracked into a general "let's add a
> database consistency checker" type discussion. Which we need, but won't
> get in 9.6.
To be clear, I was pointing out that we've had similar types of
consistency checkers implemented for other big features (eg: Heikki's
work on checking that WAL works) and that it'd be good to have one here
also.
That could be as simple as a query with the right things installed, or
it might be an independent tool, but not having any way to check isn't
good. That said, trying to make VACUUM do that doesn't make sense to me
either.
Perhaps that's not an option due to the lateness of the hour or the lack
of manpower behind it, but that doesn't seem to be what has been said so
far.
> > If you want to me to do some work to help improve things on a patch I
> > committed, that is 100% fair. But I don't know what I did to earn
> > this response which, to me, reads as rather demanding and rather
> > exasperated.
>
> I don't think it's absurd to make some demands on the committer of a
> impact-heavy feature, about at least finding a realistic path towards
> the new feature being realistically testable. This is a scary (but
> *REALLY IMPORTANT*) patch, and I don't understand why it's ok that we
> can't push a it through a couple wraparounds under high concurrency, and
> easily verify that the freeze map is in sync with the actual data.
>
> And yes, I *am* exasperated, that I'm the only one that appears to be
> scared by the lack of that capability. I think the feature is in a
> *lot* better shape than multixacts, but it certainly has the potential
> to do even more damage in ways that'll essentially be unrecoverable.
Not having a straightforward way to ensure that it's working properly is
certainly concerning to me as well.
Thanks!
Stephen
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To: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
Cc: sfrost@snowman.net, andres@anarazel.de, robertmhaas@gmail.com, michael.paquier@gmail.com, sawada.mshk@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Reviewing freeze map code
In-Reply-To: <20160606201819.GW21416@tamriel.snowman.net>
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