From: Stephen Frost <sfrost@snowman.net>
To: Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us>
Cc: Fabien COELHO <coelho@cri.ensmp.fr>
Cc: Alastair Turner <minion@decodable.me>
Cc: Michael Paquier <michael@paquier.xyz>
Cc: PostgreSQL-development <pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org>
Cc: Masahiko Sawada <masahiko.sawada@2ndquadrant.com>
Subject: Re: Proposed patch for key managment
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2020 09:18:05 -0500
Message-ID: <20201231141805.GJ27507@tamriel.snowman.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20201231013536.GD22199@momjian.us>
References: <20201216213200.GS16415@tamriel.snowman.net>
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<20201216224331.GV16415@tamriel.snowman.net>
<CAC0GmyyVHstcMefpbCqXC25_Xg4V=Dy-q1ps1a06j9xUOL0SzQ@mail.gmail.com>
<20201218213624.GG16415@tamriel.snowman.net>
<CAC0GmyzJNXRZ5MQJYq24EiUarP+xN9Q19_cknkHmmYU=CTzHrQ@mail.gmail.com>
<20201227172526.GB17037@momjian.us>
<alpine.DEB.2.22.394.2012281736570.2094581@pseudo>
<20201230234933.GI27507@tamriel.snowman.net>
<20201231013536.GD22199@momjian.us>
Greetings,
* Bruce Momjian (bruce@momjian.us) wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 06:49:34PM -0500, Stephen Frost wrote:
> > The API to fetch the KEK doesn't care at all about where it's stored or
> > how it's derived or anything like that. There's a relatively small
> > change which could be made to have PG request all of the keys that it'll
> > need on startup, if we want to go there as has been suggested elsewhere,
> > but even if we do that, PG needs to be able to do that itself too,
> > otherwise it's not a complete capability and there seems little point in
> > doing something that's just a pass-thru to something else and isn't able
> > to really be used.
>
> Right now, the script returns a cluster key (KEK), and during initdb the
> server generates data encryption keys and wraps them with the KEK.
> During server start, the server validates the KEK and decrypts the data
> keys. pg_alterckey allows changing the KEK.
Right- all of those are really necessary things for PG to have a useful
implementation.
> I think Fabien is saying this all should _only_ be done using external
> tools --- that's what I don't agree with.
I also don't agree that everything should be external. We effectively
have that today and it certainly doesn't get us any closer to having a
solution in PG, a point which we are frequently pointed to as a reason
why certain, entirely reasonable, use-cases can't be satisfied with PG.
Thanks,
Stephen
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To: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
Cc: sfrost@snowman.net, bruce@momjian.us, coelho@cri.ensmp.fr, minion@decodable.me, michael@paquier.xyz, masahiko.sawada@2ndquadrant.com
Subject: Re: Proposed patch for key managment
In-Reply-To: <20201231141805.GJ27507@tamriel.snowman.net>
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