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* SATA RAID: Promise vs. 3ware
@ 2007-03-20 13:23 Ireneusz Pluta <ipluta@wp.pl>
0 siblings, 3 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Ireneusz Pluta @ 2007-03-20 13:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pgsql-performance
Hello all,
I sent a similar post to a FreeBSD group, but thought I'd might try here too.
I am completing a box for PostgreSQL server on FreeBSD. Selecting a RAID controller I decided to go
with 3ware SE9650-16, following good opinions about 3ware controllers found on FreeBSD and
PostgreSQL groups.
However my dealer suggest me not to go with 3ware, and take Promise SuperTrak EX16350, instead. This
suggestion does not have any technical background and it comes generally from the fact of limited
availability of 16x 3ware controllers on the local market and immediate availability of Promise.
Is this technically a good idea to take Promise instead of 3ware or rather I definitely should
insist on 3ware and wait for it?
Thank you
Ireneusz Pluta
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: SATA RAID: Promise vs. 3ware
@ 2007-03-20 14:18 Merlin Moncure <mmoncure@gmail.com>
parent: Ireneusz Pluta <ipluta@wp.pl>
2 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Merlin Moncure @ 2007-03-20 14:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Ireneusz Pluta <ipluta@wp.pl>; +Cc: pgsql-performance
On 3/20/07, Ireneusz Pluta <ipluta@wp.pl> wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I sent a similar post to a FreeBSD group, but thought I'd might try here too.
>
> I am completing a box for PostgreSQL server on FreeBSD. Selecting a RAID controller I decided to go
> with 3ware SE9650-16, following good opinions about 3ware controllers found on FreeBSD and
> PostgreSQL groups.
>
> However my dealer suggest me not to go with 3ware, and take Promise SuperTrak EX16350, instead. This
> suggestion does not have any technical background and it comes generally from the fact of limited
> availability of 16x 3ware controllers on the local market and immediate availability of Promise.
>
> Is this technically a good idea to take Promise instead of 3ware or rather I definitely should
> insist on 3ware and wait for it?
Promise raid controllers are famous for being software based with all
the real work being done in the driver. Without doing the research
this may or may not be the case with this particular controller.
Another issue with cheap RAID controllers is the performance may not
be as good as software raid...in fact it may be worse. Look for
benchmarks on the web and be skeptical.
merlin
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: SATA RAID: Promise vs. 3ware
@ 2007-03-20 14:34 Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
parent: Merlin Moncure <mmoncure@gmail.com>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Magnus Hagander @ 2007-03-20 14:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Merlin Moncure <mmoncure@gmail.com>; +Cc: Ireneusz Pluta <ipluta@wp.pl>; pgsql-performance
On Tue, Mar 20, 2007 at 10:18:45AM -0400, Merlin Moncure wrote:
> On 3/20/07, Ireneusz Pluta <ipluta@wp.pl> wrote:
> >Hello all,
> >
> >I sent a similar post to a FreeBSD group, but thought I'd might try here
> >too.
> >
> >I am completing a box for PostgreSQL server on FreeBSD. Selecting a RAID
> >controller I decided to go
> >with 3ware SE9650-16, following good opinions about 3ware controllers
> >found on FreeBSD and
> >PostgreSQL groups.
> >
> >However my dealer suggest me not to go with 3ware, and take Promise
> >SuperTrak EX16350, instead. This
> >suggestion does not have any technical background and it comes generally
> >from the fact of limited
> >availability of 16x 3ware controllers on the local market and immediate
> >availability of Promise.
> >
> >Is this technically a good idea to take Promise instead of 3ware or rather
> >I definitely should
> >insist on 3ware and wait for it?
>
>
> Promise raid controllers are famous for being software based with all
> the real work being done in the driver. Without doing the research
> this may or may not be the case with this particular controller.
> Another issue with cheap RAID controllers is the performance may not
> be as good as software raid...in fact it may be worse. Look for
> benchmarks on the web and be skeptical.
A Promise RAID is the only hardware RAID I've ever had eat an entire
array for me... Granted this was one of those "external array with SCSI
to the host", but it's certainly turned me away from Promise.. Probably
not related to the controller in question, just their general quality
level.
//Magnus
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: SATA RAID: Promise vs. 3ware
@ 2007-03-20 15:41 Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
parent: Ireneusz Pluta <ipluta@wp.pl>
2 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Joshua D. Drake @ 2007-03-20 15:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Ireneusz Pluta <ipluta@wp.pl>; +Cc: pgsql-performance
> Is this technically a good idea to take Promise instead of 3ware or
> rather I definitely should insist on 3ware and wait for it?
Use 3Ware they are proven to provide a decent raid controller for
SATA/PATA. Promise on the other hand... not so much.
Joshua D. Drake
>
> Thank you
>
> Ireneusz Pluta
>
>
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^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: SATA RAID: Promise vs. 3ware
@ 2007-03-20 17:01 Dave Cramer <pg@fastcrypt.com>
parent: Ireneusz Pluta <ipluta@wp.pl>
2 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Dave Cramer @ 2007-03-20 17:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Ireneusz Pluta <ipluta@wp.pl>; +Cc: pgsql-performance
On 20-Mar-07, at 9:23 AM, Ireneusz Pluta wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I sent a similar post to a FreeBSD group, but thought I'd might try
> here too.
>
> I am completing a box for PostgreSQL server on FreeBSD. Selecting a
> RAID controller I decided to go with 3ware SE9650-16, following
> good opinions about 3ware controllers found on FreeBSD and
> PostgreSQL groups.
>
> However my dealer suggest me not to go with 3ware, and take Promise
> SuperTrak EX16350, instead. This suggestion does not have any
> technical background and it comes generally from the fact of
> limited availability of 16x 3ware controllers on the local market
> and immediate availability of Promise.
>
> Is this technically a good idea to take Promise instead of 3ware or
> rather I definitely should insist on 3ware and wait for it?
>
The reality is that most dealers have no idea what is "good" for a
database application. It is likely that this card is better for him
somehow ( more margin, easier to get, etc.)
I'd stick with 3ware, areca, or lsi. And even then I'd check it when
I got it to make sure it lived up to it's reputation.
Dave
> Thank you
>
> Ireneusz Pluta
>
>
> ---------------------------(end of
> broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 7: You can help support the PostgreSQL project by donating at
>
> http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
>
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: SATA RAID: Promise vs. 3ware
@ 2007-03-20 18:08 Dave Cramer <pg@fastcrypt.com>
parent: Dave Cramer <pg@fastcrypt.com>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Dave Cramer @ 2007-03-20 18:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Benjamin Arai <me@benjaminarai.com>; +Cc: Ireneusz Pluta <ipluta@wp.pl>; pgsql-performance
On 20-Mar-07, at 1:53 PM, Benjamin Arai wrote:
> This is a little biased but I would stay away from areca only
> because they have fans on the card. At some point down the line
> that card is going to die. When it does there is really no telling
> what it will do to your data. I personally use 3Ware cards, they
> work well but I have had one die before (1/10).
>
Well, they are also the only one of the bunch that I am aware of that
will sell you 1G of cache. Plus if you use battery backup sooner or
later you have to replace the batteries. I use areca all the time
and I've never had a fan die, but I admit it is a point of failure.
Dave
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: SATA RAID: Promise vs. 3ware
@ 2007-03-20 18:44 Ron <rjpeace@earthlink.net>
parent: Dave Cramer <pg@fastcrypt.com>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Ron @ 2007-03-20 18:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Benjamin Arai <me@benjaminarai.com>; +Cc: pgsql-performance
At 02:08 PM 3/20/2007, Dave Cramer wrote:
>On 20-Mar-07, at 1:53 PM, Benjamin Arai wrote:
>
>>This is a little biased but I would stay away from areca only
>>because they have fans on the card. At some point down the line
>>that card is going to die. When it does there is really no telling
>>what it will do to your data.
Ummm ?what? fan? The Intel IOP341 (AKA 81341) based ARC-12xx cards
are what people are most likely going to want to buy at this point,
and they are fanless:
http://www.areca.us/support/photo_gallery.htm
The "lore" is that
+3ware is best at random IO and Areca is best at streaming IO. OLTP
=> 3ware. OLAP => Areca.
- stay away from Adaptec or Promise for any mission critical role.
= LSI is a mixed bag.
>Well, they are also the only one of the bunch that I am aware of
>that will sell you 1G of cache.
Actually, it's up to 2GB of BB cache... 2GB DDR2 SDRAMs are cheap
and easy to get now. I've actually been agitating for Areca to
support 4GB of RAM.
>Plus if you use battery backup sooner or later you have to replace
>the batteries. I use areca all the time and I've never had a fan
>die, but I admit it is a point of failure.
I've had the whole card die (massive cooling failure in NOC led to
...), but never any component on the card. OTOH, I'm conservative
about how much heat per unit area I'm willing to allow to occur in or
near my DB servers.
Cheers,
Ron
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 7+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2007-03-20 18:44 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 7+ messages (download: mbox mbox.gz follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2007-03-20 13:23 SATA RAID: Promise vs. 3ware Ireneusz Pluta <ipluta@wp.pl>
2007-03-20 14:18 ` Merlin Moncure <mmoncure@gmail.com>
2007-03-20 14:34 ` Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
2007-03-20 15:41 ` Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
2007-03-20 17:01 ` Dave Cramer <pg@fastcrypt.com>
2007-03-20 18:08 ` Dave Cramer <pg@fastcrypt.com>
2007-03-20 18:44 ` Ron <rjpeace@earthlink.net>
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