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* Legal disclaimers on emails to this group
@ 2019-12-06 18:42 Craig James <cjames@emolecules.com>
2019-12-06 19:27 ` Re: Legal disclaimers on emails to this group Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2019-12-06 22:42 ` Re: Legal disclaimers on emails to this group Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com>
2019-12-07 12:10 ` Re: Legal disclaimers on emails to this group Jean-David Beyer <jeandavid8@verizon.net>
2019-12-09 23:05 ` RE: Legal disclaimers on emails to this group Mike Schanne <mschanne@kns.com>
0 siblings, 4 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Craig James @ 2019-12-06 18:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Mike Schanne <mschanne@kns.com>; +Cc: pgsql-performance
(I've changed the original subject, "autovacuum locking question", of the
sender's email so as not to hijack that thread.)
On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 2:26 PM Mike Schanne <mschanne@kns.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am investigating a performance problem...
> ... This email is non-binding, is subject to contract, and neither Kulicke
> and Soffa Industries, Inc. nor its subsidiaries (each and collectively
> “K&S”) shall have any obligation to you to consummate the transactions
> herein or to enter into any agreement, other than in accordance with the
> terms and conditions of a definitive agreement if and when negotiated,
> finalized and executed between the parties. This email and all its contents
> are protected by International and United States copyright laws. Any
> reproduction or use of all or any part of this email without the express
> written consent of K&S is prohibited.
>
Sorry to be off topic, but this bugs me. Language is important. This isn't
directed at you specifically, but I see these disclaimers all the time. How
can you post to a public newsgroup that automatically reproduces your email
to thousands of subscribers, and additionally publishes it on
publicly accessible archives, in direct conflict with your company's policy
appended to your email? And why on Earth do your company's lawyers think
this sort of disclaimer is helpful and even legally useful? Not to mention,
do they realize it's vaguely offensive to every customer and colleague who
receives it?
Craig
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: Legal disclaimers on emails to this group
2019-12-06 18:42 Legal disclaimers on emails to this group Craig James <cjames@emolecules.com>
@ 2019-12-06 19:27 ` Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2019-12-12 14:49 ` Re: Legal disclaimers on emails to this group Moreno Andreo <moreno.andreo@evolu-s.it>
3 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Tom Lane @ 2019-12-06 19:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Craig James <cjames@emolecules.com>; +Cc: Mike Schanne <mschanne@kns.com>; pgsql-performance
Craig James <cjames@emolecules.com> writes:
> Sorry to be off topic, but this bugs me. Language is important. This isn't
> directed at you specifically, but I see these disclaimers all the time. How
> can you post to a public newsgroup that automatically reproduces your email
> to thousands of subscribers, and additionally publishes it on
> publicly accessible archives, in direct conflict with your company's policy
> appended to your email? And why on Earth do your company's lawyers think
> this sort of disclaimer is helpful and even legally useful? Not to mention,
> do they realize it's vaguely offensive to every customer and colleague who
> receives it?
Yeah, it's annoying, and the idea that such an addendum is legally
enforceable is just laughable (bearing in mind that IANAL --- but
without a pre-existing contract, it's laughable). But the folks
actually emailing to our lists are generally peons with no say over
corporate policies, so there's not much they can do about it. Might
as well chill out, or just ignore any mail with a disclaimer you
find particularly offensive.
regards, tom lane
Disclaimer: if you believe that email disclaimers have any legal
force whatsoever, you are required to immediately send me $1M USD.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: Legal disclaimers on emails to this group
2019-12-06 18:42 Legal disclaimers on emails to this group Craig James <cjames@emolecules.com>
2019-12-06 19:27 ` Re: Legal disclaimers on emails to this group Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
@ 2019-12-12 14:49 ` Moreno Andreo <moreno.andreo@evolu-s.it>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Moreno Andreo @ 2019-12-12 14:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pgsql-performance@lists.postgresql.org
Il 06/12/19 20:27, Tom Lane ha scritto:
>
> Disclaimer: if you believe that email disclaimers have any legal
> force whatsoever, you are required to immediately send me $1M USD.
>
>
>
No legal force (so no 1M USD :-) ) but if you're caught not enforcing
these disclaimers (even at the bottom of the signature, so leaving the
user the choice to use it or not) in your corporate emails, you're fined
(and in some cases, also fired).
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: Legal disclaimers on emails to this group
2019-12-06 18:42 Legal disclaimers on emails to this group Craig James <cjames@emolecules.com>
@ 2019-12-06 22:42 ` Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com>
3 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Tim Cross @ 2019-12-06 22:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pgsql-performance@lists.postgresql.org; +Cc: Mike Schanne <mschanne@kns.com>; pgsql-performance
Craig James <cjames@emolecules.com> writes:
> (I've changed the original subject, "autovacuum locking question", of the
> sender's email so as not to hijack that thread.)
>
> On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 2:26 PM Mike Schanne <mschanne@kns.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am investigating a performance problem...
>> ... This email is non-binding, is subject to contract, and neither Kulicke
>> and Soffa Industries, Inc. nor its subsidiaries (each and collectively
>> “K&S”) shall have any obligation to you to consummate the transactions
>> herein or to enter into any agreement, other than in accordance with the
>> terms and conditions of a definitive agreement if and when negotiated,
>> finalized and executed between the parties. This email and all its contents
>> are protected by International and United States copyright laws. Any
>> reproduction or use of all or any part of this email without the express
>> written consent of K&S is prohibited.
>>
>
> Sorry to be off topic, but this bugs me. Language is important. This isn't
> directed at you specifically, but I see these disclaimers all the time. How
> can you post to a public newsgroup that automatically reproduces your email
> to thousands of subscribers, and additionally publishes it on
> publicly accessible archives, in direct conflict with your company's policy
> appended to your email? And why on Earth do your company's lawyers think
> this sort of disclaimer is helpful and even legally useful? Not to mention,
> do they realize it's vaguely offensive to every customer and colleague who
> receives it?
>
> Craig
Oh how I hear you!
This is what I was using as my email signature (but not for groups). I
feel for the OP who probably has little choice (other than work for a
different employer, which is a very valid choice given the 'organisational
culture' exhibited by policies requiring such nonsense)
Notice to all senders:
If you send me a message, on receipt of that message I consider that message to
be my property and I will copy, share and deceminate as I see fit. I will
provide attribution when appropriate and I willl endeavour to comply with all
reasonable requests. However, I reject all threats or implied threats of legal
action arising from an error or mistake on your part. It is your responsibility
to manage your communications appropriately, not mine.
--
Tim Cross
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: Legal disclaimers on emails to this group
2019-12-06 18:42 Legal disclaimers on emails to this group Craig James <cjames@emolecules.com>
@ 2019-12-07 12:10 ` Jean-David Beyer <jeandavid8@verizon.net>
2019-12-12 15:03 ` Re: Legal disclaimers on emails to this group Moreno Andreo <moreno.andreo@evolu-s.it>
3 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Jean-David Beyer @ 2019-12-07 12:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pgsql-performance@lists.postgresql.org
On 12/6/19 1:42 PM, Craig James wrote:
> (I've changed the original subject, "autovacuum locking question", of
> the sender's email so as not to hijack that thread.)
>
> On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 2:26 PM Mike Schanne <mschanne@kns.com
> <mailto:mschanne@kns.com>> wrote:
>
> Hi,____
>
> I am investigating a performance problem...
>
> ... This email is non-binding, is subject to contract, and neither
> Kulicke and Soffa Industries, Inc. nor its subsidiaries (each and
> collectively “K&S”) shall have any obligation to you to consummate
> the transactions herein or to enter into any agreement, other than
> in accordance with the terms and conditions of a definitive
> agreement if and when negotiated, finalized and executed between the
> parties. This email and all its contents are protected by
> International and United States copyright laws. Any reproduction or
> use of all or any part of this email without the express written
> consent of K&S is prohibited.
>
>
> Sorry to be off topic, but this bugs me. Language is important. This
> isn't directed at you specifically, but I see these disclaimers all the
> time. How can you post to a public newsgroup that automatically
> reproduces your email to thousands of subscribers, and additionally
> publishes it on publicly accessible archives, in direct conflict with
> your company's policy appended to your email? And why on Earth do your
> company's lawyers think this sort of disclaimer is helpful and even
> legally useful? Not to mention, do they realize it's vaguely offensive
> to every customer and colleague who receives it?
>
> Craig
People should probably not post anything on newsgroups from computers
owned by their employers. They are probably violating the terms of their
employment.
It would be perfectly acceptable to me if all news servers automatically
deleted all such would-be posts instead of actually posting them.
--
.~. Jean-David Beyer
/V\ PGP-Key:166D840A 0C610C8B
/( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey
^^-^^ 07:05:02 up 23 days, 7:00, 2 users, load average: 5.31, 4.71, 4.38
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: Legal disclaimers on emails to this group
2019-12-06 18:42 Legal disclaimers on emails to this group Craig James <cjames@emolecules.com>
2019-12-07 12:10 ` Re: Legal disclaimers on emails to this group Jean-David Beyer <jeandavid8@verizon.net>
@ 2019-12-12 15:03 ` Moreno Andreo <moreno.andreo@evolu-s.it>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Moreno Andreo @ 2019-12-12 15:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pgsql-performance@lists.postgresql.org
Il 07/12/19 13:10, Jean-David Beyer ha scritto:
> People should probably not post anything on newsgroups from computers
> owned by their employers. They are probably violating the terms of their
> employment.
Are you sure? Imagine you are the DBA in your company and you need to
ask a question to PostgreSQL mailing list....
I think it's perfectly legit that you do it from your corporate email,
and not from your private one (since private email address use is not
admitted, just like private messages from corporate email).
I have my disclaimer at the bottom of my signature, so I can choose when
to add it or not, it's my company policy; someone else's policy should
be that the corporate mail server automatically appends the disclaimer
to every mail message (so no user control).
I agree with Tom to just ignore disclaimers and delete them when
replying to threads: you can't blame someone for what's not under his
control.
Obvoiusly you have to be careful to not include sensitive data in your
public email, but that's always under your control.
Cheers
Moreno.-
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 7+ messages in thread
* RE: Legal disclaimers on emails to this group
2019-12-06 18:42 Legal disclaimers on emails to this group Craig James <cjames@emolecules.com>
@ 2019-12-09 23:05 ` Mike Schanne <mschanne@kns.com>
3 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Mike Schanne @ 2019-12-09 23:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Craig James <cjames@emolecules.com>; +Cc: pgsql-performance
I apologize for the legalese; as others have suggested it’s corporate IT policy and I have no control over it. I certainly intended no offense to the community here. I will use my personal email for future inquiries on this mailing list.
Thanks,
Mike
From: Craig James [mailto:cjames@emolecules.com]
Sent: Friday, December 06, 2019 1:42 PM
To: Mike Schanne
Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org
Subject: Legal disclaimers on emails to this group
(I've changed the original subject, "autovacuum locking question", of the sender's email so as not to hijack that thread.)
On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 2:26 PM Mike Schanne <mschanne@kns.com<mailto:mschanne@kns.com>> wrote:
Hi,
I am investigating a performance problem...
... This email is non-binding, is subject to contract, and neither Kulicke and Soffa Industries, Inc. nor its subsidiaries (each and collectively “K&S”) shall have any obligation to you to consummate the transactions herein or to enter into any agreement, other than in accordance with the terms and conditions of a definitive agreement if and when negotiated, finalized and executed between the parties. This email and all its contents are protected by International and United States copyright laws. Any reproduction or use of all or any part of this email without the express written consent of K&S is prohibited.
Sorry to be off topic, but this bugs me. Language is important. This isn't directed at you specifically, but I see these disclaimers all the time. How can you post to a public newsgroup that automatically reproduces your email to thousands of subscribers, and additionally publishes it on publicly accessible archives, in direct conflict with your company's policy appended to your email? And why on Earth do your company's lawyers think this sort of disclaimer is helpful and even legally useful? Not to mention, do they realize it's vaguely offensive to every customer and colleague who receives it?
Craig
________________________________
This email is non-binding, is subject to contract, and neither Kulicke and Soffa Industries, Inc. nor its subsidiaries (each and collectively “K&S”) shall have any obligation to you to consummate the transactions herein or to enter into any agreement, other than in accordance with the terms and conditions of a definitive agreement if and when negotiated, finalized and executed between the parties. This email and all its contents are protected by International and United States copyright laws. Any reproduction or use of all or any part of this email without the express written consent of K&S is prohibited.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 7+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2019-12-12 15:03 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 7+ messages (download: mbox mbox.gz follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2019-12-06 18:42 Legal disclaimers on emails to this group Craig James <cjames@emolecules.com>
2019-12-06 19:27 ` Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2019-12-12 14:49 ` Moreno Andreo <moreno.andreo@evolu-s.it>
2019-12-06 22:42 ` Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com>
2019-12-07 12:10 ` Jean-David Beyer <jeandavid8@verizon.net>
2019-12-12 15:03 ` Moreno Andreo <moreno.andreo@evolu-s.it>
2019-12-09 23:05 ` Mike Schanne <mschanne@kns.com>
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