From: Axel Rau <Axel.Rau@Chaos1.DE>
To: Michael Fuhr <mike@fuhr.org>
Cc: pgsql-sql@postgresql.org
Cc: daryl@brandywine.com
Subject: Re: Updating cidr column with network operator
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 12:34:59 +0200
Message-ID: <f10bbbc30411862e1691fc7a905a8e5e@Chaos1.DE> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20050926000541.GA11071@winnie.fuhr.org>
References: <ffaabb4676ab075beb4b6d041ec280c4@Chaos1.DE>
<4332C38E.5040807@brandywine.com>
<72c14f47f1dca0ae99e559cef56416a3@Chaos1.DE>
<43331359.1020703@brandywine.com>
<bbbf1059080c058d91cb869bf4cf750a@Chaos1.DE>
<20050923173204.GA80995@winnie.fuhr.org>
<4a95b442a12d5b4f3cc508868a13aba5@Chaos1.DE>
<20050926000541.GA11071@winnie.fuhr.org>
Am 26.09.2005 um 02:05 schrieb Michael Fuhr:
> On Fri, Sep 23, 2005 at 09:19:25PM +0200, Axel Rau wrote:
>> Am 23.09.2005 um 19:32 schrieb Michael Fuhr:
>>> On Fri, Sep 23, 2005 at 06:31:17PM +0200, Axel Rau wrote:
>>>> Networks change during time, being diveded or aggregated or you just
>>>> enter wrong data during insert.
>>>
>>> Have you considered using a CHECK constraint and/or a trigger to
>>> ensure that the network in the network column contains the address
>>> in the id column? If you have and rejected the idea, what were the
>>> reasons?
>>
>> I'm sure this would be the cleanest solution but remember networks
>> change.
>
> Yes, which is why it's a good idea to automatically propogate those
> changes to tables that maintain redundant data.
I would not call it redundant but normalized, because network has some
attributes, common to all addresses in the net, 1st of all the netmask.
> If that data isn't
> reliable then there's little point in maintaining it.
Reliability is a big issue in my application, because it's some kind of
"data mining"
of internet structures (networks, Autonomous Systems and abuse
addresses).
Whois data is seldom correct, so I changed recently to use the internet
routing
table for the most important network data.
>
>> This constraind would have to update all details (addresses) of a
>> 10/8 being splitted in a 10/9 and a 10.128/9. If this can be done
>> with pg, it is above my current knowledge level. (But feel free to
>> send a suggestion).
>
> See the documentation for PL/pgSQL and triggers. You could write
> a trigger function to automatically update the address table whenever
> the network table changes. Or, since the foreign keys already
> cascade on update, you could have a trigger on the address table
> that checks whether the new network contains the IP address, and
> if it doesn't then it looks up the correct network.
I will try this, but be sure I will come back with questions. (-;).
>
>> The other point is performance. Inserting new addresses is a realtime
>> job while correcting network changes is a daily maintenance job.
>
> Triggers on update shouldn't affect insert performance, and since
> you already have a foreign key constraint to slow inserts down,
> adding a CHECK constraint should have negligible impact.
>
> The need for regular corrections is a sign that perhaps the design
> could be improved. This is one reason to avoid maintaining redundant
> data if possible: you have to take additional steps to ensure that
> it remains consistent.
I agree.
>
>>> This update also might not give the results you want if more than
>>> one network matches.
>>
>> This is not possible, because the pk of network is the net cidr.
>
> Yes, it is possible, because the update's join condition isn't
> equality but rather containment. If the network table contains
> 10.1.0.0/16 and 10.1.0.0/24, then the IP address 10.1.0.1 would
> match both.
You mean, unique does not imply none-overlapping for data-type
network? Oh, I didn't know that.
Who is responsible for this func spec? This is completly contra-
real-world-experience. Can this be re-considered for a future release?
I do understand now the background of your arguments.
First what I have to do, is to fix that network table to forbid
overlapps.
I expect that I will find overlapps already in the table, because I have
not yet written the maintenance code to deleting/reorganizing nets (-;).
Deleting involves scanning a 300 MB flat file and looking which row
in network has no longer an entry in the flat file. I did try this in
pg in
the 1st place but could not keep up updating 9 million rows 3 times
in 4 hours on a 2x 900MHz 2GB Powermac G4. I currently have no
idea how to solve that (Possibly worth another thread).
> If your application prevents 10.1.0.0/16 and 10.1.0.0/24
> from both being in the network table then *that's* the reason
> multiple matches aren't possible, but it's not because of the
> primary key.
>
> --
> Michael Fuhr
Thank you for taking the time to explain this,
Axel
Axel Rau, Frankfurt, Germany +49-69-951418-0
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To: pgsql-sql@postgresql.org
Cc: Axel.Rau@Chaos1.DE, mike@fuhr.org, daryl@brandywine.com
Subject: Re: Updating cidr column with network operator
In-Reply-To: <f10bbbc30411862e1691fc7a905a8e5e@Chaos1.DE>
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