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* Re: PostgreSQL and success of OSS
@ 2006-06-28 17:40 Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2006-06-28 20:20 ` Re: PostgreSQL and success of OSS Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Marc G. Fournier @ 2006-06-28 17:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Brent Wilkins <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-www
Hi Brent ...
I'm CC'ng in the -www group of PostgreSQL, since you are asking
questions that will need to be pulled in from various sources ... and/or
are difficult to answer over all ...
The one that I can try and answer is the Developer Team Size, which is a
# that is very hard to arrive at .. the 'clearly defined developers' are
all listed at:
http://www.postgresql.org/developer/bios
Of which we have >50 ... but, this doesn't include everyone and anyone
that has ever contributed a patch to the source tree ... our -hackers
mailing list, where most, if not all, of our talks about development take
place, there are over 1400 subscribers, so there are *alot* of ppl
lurking, or, if not lurking, providing periodic comments concerning
development ... not all of those are "coders" ...
On Wed, 28 Jun 2006, Brent Wilkins wrote:
> Hello Marc, I'm a computer science student at CSU working on a
> research project on the success of OSS. Studies conducted in the past
> have identified several metrics such as downloads and developer team
> size as good indicators of success. PostgreSQL is clearly a success
> and I would like to have access to data like download counts, and
> anything else that might help in order to try and identify objective
> measures which can hopefully be linked/related to subjective success.
> So, if possible please send me any data like the data typically
> available on Source Forge, and/or an email address of some one inside
> PostgreSQL who may be interested in helping. Thanks.
>
> --
> A pessimist says the glass is half-empty. An optimist says the glass
> is half-full. An engineer recognizes that the glass is simply too big.
>
----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email . [email protected] MSN . [email protected]
Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: PostgreSQL and success of OSS
2006-06-28 17:40 Re: PostgreSQL and success of OSS Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
@ 2006-06-28 20:20 ` Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
2006-06-28 20:26 ` Re: PostgreSQL and success of OSS David Fetter <[email protected]>
2006-06-29 15:20 ` Re: PostgreSQL and success of OSS Robert Treat <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 2 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: Josh Berkus @ 2006-06-28 20:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pgsql-www; +Cc: Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; Brent Wilkins <[email protected]>
Marc,
> The one that I can try and answer is the Developer Team Size, which
> is a # that is very hard to arrive at .. the 'clearly defined
> developers' are all listed at:
I stick with Greg's estimate of "about 200" that he did for 7.4. That
included:
core contributors
minor patch submitters
beta testers (the ones who submitted bug fixes)
key contributors to closely associated projects (like JDBC, ODBC, and
OpenFTS)
It was a lot of research on his part which is why I don't want to do it
again.
--
--Josh
Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL @ Sun
San Francisco
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: PostgreSQL and success of OSS
2006-06-28 17:40 Re: PostgreSQL and success of OSS Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2006-06-28 20:20 ` Re: PostgreSQL and success of OSS Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
@ 2006-06-28 20:26 ` David Fetter <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: David Fetter @ 2006-06-28 20:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Josh Berkus <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-www; Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; Brent Wilkins <[email protected]>
On Wed, Jun 28, 2006 at 01:20:19PM -0700, Josh Berkus wrote:
> Marc,
>
> > The one that I can try and answer is the Developer Team Size,
> > which is a # that is very hard to arrive at .. the 'clearly
> > defined developers' are all listed at:
>
> I stick with Greg's estimate of "about 200" that he did for 7.4. That
> included:
>
> core contributors
> minor patch submitters
> beta testers (the ones who submitted bug fixes)
> key contributors to closely associated projects (like JDBC, ODBC, and
> OpenFTS)
>
> It was a lot of research on his part which is why I don't want to do
> it again.
Also pertinent to such assessments is the Open Source Maturity Model
<http://www.seriouslyopen.org/nuke/html/index.php; which has some
interesting ways of measuring projects. As you might guess,
PostgreSQL is right off the scale on every one of their metrics :)
Cheers,
D
--
David Fetter <[email protected]> http://fetter.org/
phone: +1 415 235 3778 AIM: dfetter666
Skype: davidfetter
Remember to vote!
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: PostgreSQL and success of OSS
2006-06-28 17:40 Re: PostgreSQL and success of OSS Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2006-06-28 20:20 ` Re: PostgreSQL and success of OSS Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
@ 2006-06-29 15:20 ` Robert Treat <[email protected]>
2006-06-29 18:24 ` Re: PostgreSQL and success of OSS Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Robert Treat @ 2006-06-29 15:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pgsql-www; [email protected]; +Cc: Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; Brent Wilkins <[email protected]>
On Wednesday 28 June 2006 16:20, Josh Berkus wrote:
> Marc,
>
> > The one that I can try and answer is the Developer Team Size, which
> > is a # that is very hard to arrive at .. the 'clearly defined
> > developers' are all listed at:
>
> I stick with Greg's estimate of "about 200" that he did for 7.4. That
> included:
>
> core contributors
> minor patch submitters
> beta testers (the ones who submitted bug fixes)
> key contributors to closely associated projects (like JDBC, ODBC, and
> OpenFTS)
>
> It was a lot of research on his part which is why I don't want to do it
> again.
I wonder if that number would need to be bumped up in a rather handwavy manner
(amybe +50) on the grounds of companies like enterprisedb, fujitsu,
greenplum, and sun, which I would guess have developers working behind the
scenes on issues thier companies care most about, which then get filtered up
through a few individuals to the community at large. Additionally we also
have more "closely tied" projects like slony and npgsql to draw in more
people. Thoughts?
--
Robert Treat
Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: PostgreSQL and success of OSS
2006-06-28 17:40 Re: PostgreSQL and success of OSS Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2006-06-28 20:20 ` Re: PostgreSQL and success of OSS Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
2006-06-29 15:20 ` Re: PostgreSQL and success of OSS Robert Treat <[email protected]>
@ 2006-06-29 18:24 ` Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
2006-06-29 18:34 ` Re: PostgreSQL and success of OSS Guido Barosio <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Josh Berkus @ 2006-06-29 18:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pgsql-www; +Cc: Robert Treat <[email protected]>; Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; Brent Wilkins <[email protected]>
Robert,
> I wonder if that number would need to be bumped up in a rather handwavy
> manner (amybe +50) on the grounds of companies like enterprisedb,
> fujitsu, greenplum, and sun, which I would guess have developers working
> behind the scenes on issues thier companies care most about, which then
> get filtered up through a few individuals to the community at large.
> Additionally we also have more "closely tied" projects like slony and
> npgsql to draw in more people. Thoughts?
No, I think if we change the numbers, we need to do a full re-count.
--
--Josh
Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL @ Sun
San Francisco
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: PostgreSQL and success of OSS
2006-06-28 17:40 Re: PostgreSQL and success of OSS Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2006-06-28 20:20 ` Re: PostgreSQL and success of OSS Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
2006-06-29 15:20 ` Re: PostgreSQL and success of OSS Robert Treat <[email protected]>
2006-06-29 18:24 ` Re: PostgreSQL and success of OSS Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
@ 2006-06-29 18:34 ` Guido Barosio <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: Guido Barosio @ 2006-06-29 18:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: [email protected]; +Cc: pgsql-www; Robert Treat <[email protected]>; Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; Brent Wilkins <[email protected]>
+1
What about something like (see below) to get a first snapshot:
http://statcvs.sourceforge.net/
g.-
On 6/29/06, Josh Berkus <[email protected]> wrote:
> Robert,
>
> > I wonder if that number would need to be bumped up in a rather handwavy
> > manner (amybe +50) on the grounds of companies like enterprisedb,
> > fujitsu, greenplum, and sun, which I would guess have developers working
> > behind the scenes on issues thier companies care most about, which then
> > get filtered up through a few individuals to the community at large.
> > Additionally we also have more "closely tied" projects like slony and
> > npgsql to draw in more people. Thoughts?
>
> No, I think if we change the numbers, we need to do a full re-count.
>
> --
> --Josh
>
> Josh Berkus
> PostgreSQL @ Sun
> San Francisco
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
>
--
Guido Barosio
-----------------------
http://www.globant.com
[email protected]
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: PostgreSQL and success of OSS
@ 2006-06-30 18:38 Brent Wilkins <[email protected]>
2006-06-30 21:20 ` Re: PostgreSQL and success of OSS David Fetter <[email protected]>
2006-06-30 23:13 ` Re: PostgreSQL and success of OSS Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 2 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: Brent Wilkins @ 2006-06-30 18:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pgsql-www
I wanted to first thank you guys for the help so far. I can tell from
the number of responses that you guys like/care about PostgreSQL,
which is what you would expect on an open source project.
I plan on running through the available data like the CVS
repositories, and a tool like the one that Guido suggested
(http://statcvs.sourceforge.net/) looks helpful. I would also like
any other data that you guys can supply me. One data set in
particular would be a count of downloads. Really everything that is
available for Source Forge projects would be nice. I think that I can
probably mine data on bugs from the mailing list, but is there any
chance that there is a bug report database which I might be able to
get data from?
If you are interested here is a link to a similar study that another
student in my department did which I am using as a guideline:
http://www.cs.colostate.edu/%7ebieman/Pubs/tse05TrungBieman.pdf
Again, thanks for the help.
--
A pessimist says the glass is half-empty. An optimist says the glass
is half-full. An engineer recognizes that the glass is simply too big.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: PostgreSQL and success of OSS
2006-06-30 18:38 Re: PostgreSQL and success of OSS Brent Wilkins <[email protected]>
@ 2006-06-30 21:20 ` David Fetter <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: David Fetter @ 2006-06-30 21:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Brent Wilkins <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-www
On Fri, Jun 30, 2006 at 12:38:08PM -0600, Brent Wilkins wrote:
> I wanted to first thank you guys for the help so far. I can tell
> from the number of responses that you guys like/care about
> PostgreSQL, which is what you would expect on an open source
> project.
>
> I plan on running through the available data like the CVS
> repositories, and a tool like the one that Guido suggested
> (http://statcvs.sourceforge.net/) looks helpful. I would also like
> any other data that you guys can supply me.
Downloads are a very difficult (and, I would argue, somewhat useless,
but that's your call) thing to measure because there are so many
sources of the software. For example, just about every Linux
distribution now comes with it. Almost nobody who isn't a developer
of PostgreSQL actually goes to a CVS repository.
> One data set in particular would be a count of downloads. Really
> everything that is available for Source Forge projects would be
> nice. I think that I can probably mine data on bugs from the
> mailing list, but is there any chance that there is a bug report
> database which I might be able to get data from?
The "bug report database" is the archives of the pgsql-bugs,
pgsql-hackers and pgsql-patches mailing lists.
> If you are interested here is a link to a similar study that another
> student in my department did which I am using as a guideline:
>
> http://www.cs.colostate.edu/%7ebieman/Pubs/tse05TrungBieman.pdf
>
> Again, thanks for the help.
>
> --
> A pessimist says the glass is half-empty. An optimist says the glass
> is half-full. An engineer recognizes that the glass is simply too
> big.
A *real* engineer realizes that a safety factor of two may be enough
for some applications, but worries occasionally that it may be too
small. ;)
Cheers,
D
--
David Fetter <[email protected]> http://fetter.org/
phone: +1 415 235 3778 AIM: dfetter666
Skype: davidfetter
Remember to vote!
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: PostgreSQL and success of OSS
2006-06-30 18:38 Re: PostgreSQL and success of OSS Brent Wilkins <[email protected]>
@ 2006-06-30 23:13 ` Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: Josh Berkus @ 2006-06-30 23:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: [email protected]; +Cc: pgsql-www
Brent,
> I would also like
> any other data that you guys can supply me. One data set in
> particular would be a count of downloads.
Direct downloads for 2005 were 1.4 million.
For a list of the problems with this number as an indicator of any real
information at all, see:
http://blogs.ittoolbox.com/database/soup/archives/the-count-of-downloadia-part-i-5621
Really everything that is
> available for Source Forge projects would be nice. I think that I can
> probably mine data on bugs from the mailing list, but is there any
> chance that there is a bug report database which I might be able to
> get data from?
You'd need to mine the archives of the pgsql-bugs list and weed out
irrelevant discussions, non-bugs, and duplicates. We've discussed
adopting a database-driven bug tracker, but so far the advantages don't
outweigh the burdens for a good number of our contributors.
--Josh Berkus
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 9+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2006-06-30 23:13 UTC | newest]
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-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2006-06-28 17:40 Re: PostgreSQL and success of OSS Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2006-06-28 20:20 ` Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
2006-06-28 20:26 ` David Fetter <[email protected]>
2006-06-29 15:20 ` Robert Treat <[email protected]>
2006-06-29 18:24 ` Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
2006-06-29 18:34 ` Guido Barosio <[email protected]>
2006-06-30 18:38 Re: PostgreSQL and success of OSS Brent Wilkins <[email protected]>
2006-06-30 21:20 ` David Fetter <[email protected]>
2006-06-30 23:13 ` Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
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