public inbox for [email protected]
help / color / mirror / Atom feedEvent Spam..???
16+ messages / 4 participants
[nested] [flat]
* Event Spam..???
@ 2007-05-11 15:47 Chander Ganesan <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 16:00 ` Re: Event Spam..??? Dave Page <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 17:06 ` Re: Event Spam..??? Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 17:13 ` Re: Event Spam..??? Dave Page <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 3 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: Chander Ganesan @ 2007-05-11 15:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pgsql-www
Hello,
I just noticed the following events posted:
Unknown <http://www.postgresql.org/about/event.497;
Date: *2007-09-22 -- 2008-12-04* Location: *Unknown, Unknown, Dominican
Republic*
Posted by *[email protected]*
a camp band <http://jabiki.hotbox.ru; aagps <http://pebiju.hotbox.ru; a
slut wife <http://pezoji.hotbox.ru; a midsummers night dream quotes
<http://lepini.hotbox.ru; a family <http://ketaby.hotbox.ru; more...
<http://www.postgresql.org/about/event.497;
Unknown <http://www.postgresql.org/about/event.498;
Date: *2008-03-17 -- 2009-08-29* Location: *Unknown, Unknown, Montserrat*
Posted by *[email protected]*
a security problem occurred <http://myxifa.front.ru; a+ questions free
<http://tesezi.front.ru; aantal inwoners amsterdam
<http://geqysa.front.ru; a7 envelope template <http://nykeli.front.ru; a
job title <http://comege.front.ru; more...
<http://www.postgresql.org/about/event.498;
I'm assuming they aren't there intentionally...
Also, I notice a lot of events in the training database that seem to be
dedicated more to "lead generation" than a reasonable effort to run a
training course. For example, 'Certfirst' lists PostgreSQL courses
throughout the US in a wide range of different cities. It is my belief
that these courses listings are designed not to actually offer a wide
range of courses, but to maintain a "main page" list of courses to
generate leads. Is this an acceptable practice? I'd hate to see a
bunch of vendors adopting this practice to be competitive....
It seems to me that such a practice would not be to the benefit of the
community - since it wouldn't help community members find events that
were actually running - rather it would put them in touch with companies
that could add them to their marketing databases (or they'd get taken
with a "bait and switch" - where they sign up for a class in the
Bahamas, but end up being redirected to a course in Chicago).
Also, how about putting a disclaimer on the training pages indicating
that the listing of training courses doesn't constitute the endorsement
of a company by the PG community - and that customers should do their
own due diligence to ensure they get what they pay for. I think many
customers look at a listing of training and consider it to be an
endorsement by the community..
Thanks
--
Chander Ganesan
The Open Technology Group
One Copley Parkway, Suite 210
Morrisville, NC 27560
Phone: 877-258-8987/919-463-0999
http://www.otg-nc.com
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: Event Spam..???
2007-05-11 15:47 Event Spam..??? Chander Ganesan <[email protected]>
@ 2007-05-11 16:00 ` Dave Page <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 16:02 ` Re: Event Spam..??? Chander Ganesan <[email protected]>
2 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Dave Page @ 2007-05-11 16:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Chander Ganesan <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-www
Chander Ganesan wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I just noticed the following events posted:
>
> Unknown <http://www.postgresql.org/about/event.497;
<snip>
Err, how did you see these? They haven't been approved for publishing.
Regards, Dave
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: Event Spam..???
2007-05-11 15:47 Event Spam..??? Chander Ganesan <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 16:00 ` Re: Event Spam..??? Dave Page <[email protected]>
@ 2007-05-11 16:02 ` Chander Ganesan <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 16:37 ` Re: Event Spam..??? Dave Page <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Chander Ganesan @ 2007-05-11 16:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dave Page <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-www
Dave Page wrote:
> Chander Ganesan wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I just noticed the following events posted:
>>
>> Unknown <http://www.postgresql.org/about/event.497;
>>
>
> <snip>
>
> Err, how did you see these? They haven't been approved for publishing.
>
> Regards, Dave
>
http://www.postgresql.org/about/eventarchive
--
Chander Ganesan
The Open Technology Group
One Copley Parkway, Suite 210
Morrisville, NC 27560
Phone: 877-258-8987/919-463-0999
http://www.otg-nc.com
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: Event Spam..???
2007-05-11 15:47 Event Spam..??? Chander Ganesan <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 16:00 ` Re: Event Spam..??? Dave Page <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 16:02 ` Re: Event Spam..??? Chander Ganesan <[email protected]>
@ 2007-05-11 16:37 ` Dave Page <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 16:39 ` Re: Event Spam..??? Chander Ganesan <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Dave Page @ 2007-05-11 16:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Chander Ganesan <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-www
Chander Ganesan wrote:
> Dave Page wrote:
>> Chander Ganesan wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I just noticed the following events posted:
>>>
>>> Unknown <http://www.postgresql.org/about/event.497;
>>>
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> Err, how did you see these? They haven't been approved for publishing.
>>
>> Regards, Dave
>>
> http://www.postgresql.org/about/eventarchive
>
Ooops, thanks fixed.
Regards, Dave.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: Event Spam..???
2007-05-11 15:47 Event Spam..??? Chander Ganesan <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 16:00 ` Re: Event Spam..??? Dave Page <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 16:02 ` Re: Event Spam..??? Chander Ganesan <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 16:37 ` Re: Event Spam..??? Dave Page <[email protected]>
@ 2007-05-11 16:39 ` Chander Ganesan <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: Chander Ganesan @ 2007-05-11 16:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dave Page <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-www
Dave Page wrote:
> Chander Ganesan wrote:
>
>> Dave Page wrote:
>>
>>> Chander Ganesan wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> I just noticed the following events posted:
>>>>
>>>> Unknown <http://www.postgresql.org/about/event.497;
>>>>
>>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>> Err, how did you see these? They haven't been approved for publishing.
>>>
>>> Regards, Dave
>>>
>>>
>> http://www.postgresql.org/about/eventarchive
>>
>>
>
> Ooops, thanks fixed.
>
> Regards, Dave.
>
Cool. Any word on the latter part of my email? ;-)
thanks
chander
--
Chander Ganesan
The Open Technology Group
One Copley Parkway, Suite 210
Morrisville, NC 27560
Phone: 877-258-8987/919-463-0999
http://www.otg-nc.com
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: Event Spam..???
2007-05-11 15:47 Event Spam..??? Chander Ganesan <[email protected]>
@ 2007-05-11 17:06 ` Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
2 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: Joshua D. Drake @ 2007-05-11 17:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Chander Ganesan <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-www
> Also, how about putting a disclaimer on the training pages indicating
> that the listing of training courses doesn't constitute the endorsement
> of a company by the PG community - and that customers should do their
> own due diligence to ensure they get what they pay for. I think many
> customers look at a listing of training and consider it to be an
> endorsement by the community..
We would have to do it on the:
news page
consultants page
hosting page
contributors page
I understand and appreciate the point, but I think it would cause a
reverse effect that may not be positive.
Joshua D. Drake
--
=== The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. ===
Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564 || 24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240
Providing the most comprehensive PostgreSQL solutions since 1997
http://www.commandprompt.com/
Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
PostgreSQL Replication: http://www.commandprompt.com/products/
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: Event Spam..???
2007-05-11 15:47 Event Spam..??? Chander Ganesan <[email protected]>
@ 2007-05-11 17:13 ` Dave Page <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 18:03 ` Re: Event Spam..??? Chander Ganesan <[email protected]>
2 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Dave Page @ 2007-05-11 17:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Chander Ganesan <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-www
Chander Ganesan wrote:
> Also, I notice a lot of events in the training database that seem to be
> dedicated more to "lead generation" than a reasonable effort to run a
> training course. For example, 'Certfirst' lists PostgreSQL courses
> throughout the US in a wide range of different cities. It is my belief
> that these courses listings are designed not to actually offer a wide
> range of courses, but to maintain a "main page" list of courses to
> generate leads. Is this an acceptable practice? I'd hate to see a
> bunch of vendors adopting this practice to be competitive....
>
> It seems to me that such a practice would not be to the benefit of the
> community - since it wouldn't help community members find events that
> were actually running - rather it would put them in touch with companies
> that could add them to their marketing databases (or they'd get taken
> with a "bait and switch" - where they sign up for a class in the
> Bahamas, but end up being redirected to a course in Chicago).
I agree it's not good if that is what they are doing, but do you have
any proof? How would we distinguish between that, and say a dozen
courses put on by EnterpriseDB, Command Prompt or OTG?
> Also, how about putting a disclaimer on the training pages indicating
> that the listing of training courses doesn't constitute the endorsement
> of a company by the PG community - and that customers should do their
> own due diligence to ensure they get what they pay for. I think many
> customers look at a listing of training and consider it to be an
> endorsement by the community..
I haven't gone quite that far, but following a discussion with Magnus I
have added a line saying that PGDG doesn't endorse any third part events.
Thanks, Dave.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: Event Spam..???
2007-05-11 15:47 Event Spam..??? Chander Ganesan <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 17:13 ` Re: Event Spam..??? Dave Page <[email protected]>
@ 2007-05-11 18:03 ` Chander Ganesan <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 19:06 ` Re: Event Spam..??? Dave Page <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Chander Ganesan @ 2007-05-11 18:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dave Page <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-www
Dave Page wrote:
> Chander Ganesan wrote:
>
>> Also, I notice a lot of events in the training database that seem to be
>> dedicated more to "lead generation" than a reasonable effort to run a
>> training course. For example, 'Certfirst' lists PostgreSQL courses
>> throughout the US in a wide range of different cities. It is my belief
>> that these courses listings are designed not to actually offer a wide
>> range of courses, but to maintain a "main page" list of courses to
>> generate leads. Is this an acceptable practice? I'd hate to see a
>> bunch of vendors adopting this practice to be competitive....
>>
>> It seems to me that such a practice would not be to the benefit of the
>> community - since it wouldn't help community members find events that
>> were actually running - rather it would put them in touch with companies
>> that could add them to their marketing databases (or they'd get taken
>> with a "bait and switch" - where they sign up for a class in the
>> Bahamas, but end up being redirected to a course in Chicago).
>>
>
> I agree it's not good if that is what they are doing, but do you have
> any proof? How would we distinguish between that, and say a dozen
> courses put on by EnterpriseDB, Command Prompt or OTG?
>
I see your point. However, perhaps there is some other mechanism or
restriction that can be put in place to limit the likelihood of this
(one course of one type per month, a limitation on annual courses
listed, or a "per listing" fee charged to not-for-free companies)? Such
restrictions would at least limit abuse to some extent.. Or perhaps
limiting listed courses to states where companies are registered as
corporations... Such information is freely available, and it could be
required that companies provide a link to their articles of
incorporation in the states where they provide training - easy to check
without undue work on those that filter events...
If others (ourselves included) are forced to take the same action to be
competitive then it results in a reduction in the usefulness of the
tool. One could argue that removing it entirely to prevent abuse would
be less disruptive than having PG related companies flounder due to the
actions of a few "bad citizens".
>> Also, how about putting a disclaimer on the training pages indicating
>> that the listing of training courses doesn't constitute the endorsement
>> of a company by the PG community - and that customers should do their
>> own due diligence to ensure they get what they pay for. I think many
>> customers look at a listing of training and consider it to be an
>> endorsement by the community..
>>
>
> I haven't gone quite that far, but following a discussion with Magnus I
> have added a line saying that PGDG doesn't endorse any third part events.
>
> Thanks, Dave.
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
>
--
Chander Ganesan
The Open Technology Group
One Copley Parkway, Suite 210
Morrisville, NC 27560
Phone: 877-258-8987/919-463-0999
http://www.otg-nc.com
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: Event Spam..???
2007-05-11 15:47 Event Spam..??? Chander Ganesan <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 17:13 ` Re: Event Spam..??? Dave Page <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 18:03 ` Re: Event Spam..??? Chander Ganesan <[email protected]>
@ 2007-05-11 19:06 ` Dave Page <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 19:22 ` Re: Event Spam..??? Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 19:42 ` Re: Event Spam..??? Chander Ganesan <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 2 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: Dave Page @ 2007-05-11 19:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Chander Ganesan <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-www
Chander Ganesan wrote:
> I see your point. However, perhaps there is some other mechanism or
> restriction that can be put in place to limit the likelihood of this
> (one course of one type per month, a limitation on annual courses
> listed, or a "per listing" fee charged to not-for-free companies)? Such
> restrictions would at least limit abuse to some extent.. Or perhaps
> limiting listed courses to states where companies are registered as
> corporations... Such information is freely available, and it could be
> required that companies provide a link to their articles of
> incorporation in the states where they provide training - easy to check
> without undue work on those that filter events...
Limiting the number of listings is not in our interests - we want to
show how much PostgreSQL is being used. Perhaps more importantly, how
*widely*. We'd want to list courses running in every state, even if they
were all the same company.
Charging would almost certainly cause us problems given our financial
status. I suspect we could 'solicit donations', but that would obviously
not have the desired effect.
Limiting to the states in which companies are registered is a nonsense
as well - what about a company in Japan? How do we check them? Or what
about EnterpriseDB UK Ltd for example who cover the whole EMEA region -
would they (== we in case you didn't realise I work for them) be
restricted to listing courses in England because that's where we're
registered?
Don't misunderstand - I'm not trying to dodge the issue. I just don't
think there's a straightforward solution :-(
> If others (ourselves included) are forced to take the same action to be
> competitive then it results in a reduction in the usefulness of the
> tool. One could argue that removing it entirely to prevent abuse would
> be less disruptive than having PG related companies flounder due to the
> actions of a few "bad citizens".
Let's remember that there are no proven 'bad citizens'. Unless that
should change, for you to 'take the same action' would mean scheduling
more legitimate courses - which I'd welcome :-)
Regards, Dave.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: Event Spam..???
2007-05-11 15:47 Event Spam..??? Chander Ganesan <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 17:13 ` Re: Event Spam..??? Dave Page <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 18:03 ` Re: Event Spam..??? Chander Ganesan <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 19:06 ` Re: Event Spam..??? Dave Page <[email protected]>
@ 2007-05-11 19:22 ` Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 19:50 ` Re: Event Spam..??? Dave Page <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Joshua D. Drake @ 2007-05-11 19:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dave Page <[email protected]>; +Cc: Chander Ganesan <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
>> limiting listed courses to states where companies are registered as
>> corporations... Such information is freely available, and it could be
>> required that companies provide a link to their articles of
>> incorporation in the states where they provide training - easy to check
>> without undue work on those that filter events...
>
> Limiting the number of listings is not in our interests - we want to
It is, if the listings are not legitimate.
> show how much PostgreSQL is being used. Perhaps more importantly, how
> *widely*. We'd want to list courses running in every state, even if they
> were all the same company.
>
> Charging would almost certainly cause us problems given our financial
> status. I suspect we could 'solicit donations', but that would obviously
> not have the desired effect.
No it wouldn't because the larger the donation the higher up the page
the person would expect to be.
>
> Limiting to the states in which companies are registered is a nonsense
> as well - what about a company in Japan? How do we check them? Or what
> about EnterpriseDB UK Ltd for example who cover the whole EMEA region -
> would they (== we in case you didn't realise I work for them) be
> restricted to listing courses in England because that's where we're
> registered?
>
Perhaps a requirement that a link to the actual registration page for
the class? Listing the details of where the class is etc...
>> If others (ourselves included) are forced to take the same action to be
>> competitive then it results in a reduction in the usefulness of the
>> tool. One could argue that removing it entirely to prevent abuse would
>> be less disruptive than having PG related companies flounder due to the
>> actions of a few "bad citizens".
Agreed.
>
> Let's remember that there are no proven 'bad citizens'. Unless that
> should change, for you to 'take the same action' would mean scheduling
> more legitimate courses - which I'd welcome :-)
Agreed.
Sincerely,
Joshua D. Drake
>
> Regards, Dave.
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate
> subscribe-nomail command to [email protected] so that your
> message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
>
--
=== The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. ===
Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564 || 24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240
Providing the most comprehensive PostgreSQL solutions since 1997
http://www.commandprompt.com/
Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
PostgreSQL Replication: http://www.commandprompt.com/products/
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: Event Spam..???
2007-05-11 15:47 Event Spam..??? Chander Ganesan <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 17:13 ` Re: Event Spam..??? Dave Page <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 18:03 ` Re: Event Spam..??? Chander Ganesan <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 19:06 ` Re: Event Spam..??? Dave Page <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 19:22 ` Re: Event Spam..??? Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
@ 2007-05-11 19:50 ` Dave Page <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 20:09 ` Re: Event Spam..??? Chander Ganesan <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 20:22 ` Re: Event Spam..??? Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 2 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: Dave Page @ 2007-05-11 19:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>; +Cc: Chander Ganesan <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>>> limiting listed courses to states where companies are registered as
>>> corporations... Such information is freely available, and it could be
>>> required that companies provide a link to their articles of
>>> incorporation in the states where they provide training - easy to check
>>> without undue work on those that filter events...
>>
>> Limiting the number of listings is not in our interests - we want to
>
> It is, if the listings are not legitimate.
Well, yes - I think that's a given.
>> show how much PostgreSQL is being used. Perhaps more importantly, how
>> *widely*. We'd want to list courses running in every state, even if they
>> were all the same company.
>>
>> Charging would almost certainly cause us problems given our financial
>> status. I suspect we could 'solicit donations', but that would obviously
>> not have the desired effect.
>
> No it wouldn't because the larger the donation the higher up the page
> the person would expect to be.
Listings move up the page in chronological order so that the closest
events are at the top. Ordering the page based on the donation given
would make it horrendous to use for the people that actually might want
training.
>> Limiting to the states in which companies are registered is a nonsense
>> as well - what about a company in Japan? How do we check them? Or what
>> about EnterpriseDB UK Ltd for example who cover the whole EMEA region -
>> would they (== we in case you didn't realise I work for them) be
>> restricted to listing courses in England because that's where we're
>> registered?
>>
>
> Perhaps a requirement that a link to the actual registration page for
> the class? Listing the details of where the class is etc...
I thought those were a given as well, but it doesn't hurt to be reminded.
Regards, Dave
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: Event Spam..???
2007-05-11 15:47 Event Spam..??? Chander Ganesan <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 17:13 ` Re: Event Spam..??? Dave Page <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 18:03 ` Re: Event Spam..??? Chander Ganesan <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 19:06 ` Re: Event Spam..??? Dave Page <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 19:22 ` Re: Event Spam..??? Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 19:50 ` Re: Event Spam..??? Dave Page <[email protected]>
@ 2007-05-11 20:09 ` Chander Ganesan <[email protected]>
2007-05-12 12:28 ` Re: Event Spam..??? Andrew Sullivan <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Chander Ganesan @ 2007-05-11 20:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dave Page <[email protected]>; +Cc: Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
Dave Page wrote:
> Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>
>>>> limiting listed courses to states where companies are registered as
>>>> corporations... Such information is freely available, and it could be
>>>> required that companies provide a link to their articles of
>>>> incorporation in the states where they provide training - easy to check
>>>> without undue work on those that filter events...
>>>>
>>> Limiting the number of listings is not in our interests - we want to
>>>
>> It is, if the listings are not legitimate.
>>
>
> Well, yes - I think that's a given.
>
>
>>> show how much PostgreSQL is being used. Perhaps more importantly, how
>>> *widely*. We'd want to list courses running in every state, even if they
>>> were all the same company.
>>>
>>> Charging would almost certainly cause us problems given our financial
>>> status. I suspect we could 'solicit donations', but that would obviously
>>> not have the desired effect.
>>>
>> No it wouldn't because the larger the donation the higher up the page
>> the person would expect to be.
>>
>
> Listings move up the page in chronological order so that the closest
> events are at the top. Ordering the page based on the donation given
> would make it horrendous to use for the people that actually might want
> training.
>
There is a good medium - charge (donate) for front page spaces (and just
divide the donation amount by the time until the course and give the
highest ratio the best spots) and leave the "training event" page in
chronological order (or do a google and put the "sponsored" ones at the
top in a different color, etc).
>>> Limiting to the states in which companies are registered is a nonsense
>>> as well - what about a company in Japan? How do we check them? Or what
>>> about EnterpriseDB UK Ltd for example who cover the whole EMEA region -
>>> would they (== we in case you didn't realise I work for them) be
>>> restricted to listing courses in England because that's where we're
>>> registered?
>>>
>>>
>> Perhaps a requirement that a link to the actual registration page for
>> the class? Listing the details of where the class is etc...
>>
>
> I thought those were a given as well, but it doesn't hurt to be reminded.
>
Chander Ganesan
Open Technology Group, Inc.
One Copley Parkway, Suite 210
Morrisville, NC 27560
Phone: 877-258-8987/919-463-0999
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: Event Spam..???
2007-05-11 15:47 Event Spam..??? Chander Ganesan <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 17:13 ` Re: Event Spam..??? Dave Page <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 18:03 ` Re: Event Spam..??? Chander Ganesan <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 19:06 ` Re: Event Spam..??? Dave Page <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 19:22 ` Re: Event Spam..??? Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 19:50 ` Re: Event Spam..??? Dave Page <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 20:09 ` Re: Event Spam..??? Chander Ganesan <[email protected]>
@ 2007-05-12 12:28 ` Andrew Sullivan <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: Andrew Sullivan @ 2007-05-12 12:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pgsql-www
On Fri, May 11, 2007 at 04:09:27PM -0400, Chander Ganesan wrote:
> There is a good medium - charge (donate) for front page spaces (and just
> divide the donation amount by the time until the course and give the
> highest ratio the best spots) and leave the "training event" page in
> chronological order (or do a google and put the "sponsored" ones at the
> top in a different color, etc)
That's pretty thin ice we're on, as I understand it. Making a direct
link between announcement position and how much someone paid is in
fact a case of selling paid advertising, and that's a sticky area for
a non-profit to be in.
A
--
Andrew Sullivan | [email protected]
This work was visionary and imaginative, and goes to show that visionary
and imaginative work need not end up well.
--Dennis Ritchie
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: Event Spam..???
2007-05-11 15:47 Event Spam..??? Chander Ganesan <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 17:13 ` Re: Event Spam..??? Dave Page <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 18:03 ` Re: Event Spam..??? Chander Ganesan <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 19:06 ` Re: Event Spam..??? Dave Page <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 19:22 ` Re: Event Spam..??? Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 19:50 ` Re: Event Spam..??? Dave Page <[email protected]>
@ 2007-05-11 20:22 ` Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: Joshua D. Drake @ 2007-05-11 20:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dave Page <[email protected]>; +Cc: Chander Ganesan <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
> Listings move up the page in chronological order so that the closest
> events are at the top. Ordering the page based on the donation given
> would make it horrendous to use for the people that actually might want
> training.
Sure that was my point :). It is a bad idea to try it from a donation
perspective.
>
>>> Limiting to the states in which companies are registered is a nonsense
>>> as well - what about a company in Japan? How do we check them? Or what
>>> about EnterpriseDB UK Ltd for example who cover the whole EMEA region -
>>> would they (== we in case you didn't realise I work for them) be
>>> restricted to listing courses in England because that's where we're
>>> registered?
>>>
>> Perhaps a requirement that a link to the actual registration page for
>> the class? Listing the details of where the class is etc...
>
> I thought those were a given as well, but it doesn't hurt to be reminded.
Well I meant from a, we check the page before we approve the listing idea.
Joshua D. Drake
>
> Regards, Dave
>
--
=== The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. ===
Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564 || 24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240
Providing the most comprehensive PostgreSQL solutions since 1997
http://www.commandprompt.com/
Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
PostgreSQL Replication: http://www.commandprompt.com/products/
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: Event Spam..???
2007-05-11 15:47 Event Spam..??? Chander Ganesan <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 17:13 ` Re: Event Spam..??? Dave Page <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 18:03 ` Re: Event Spam..??? Chander Ganesan <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 19:06 ` Re: Event Spam..??? Dave Page <[email protected]>
@ 2007-05-11 19:42 ` Chander Ganesan <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 23:37 ` Re: Event Spam..??? Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Chander Ganesan @ 2007-05-11 19:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dave Page <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-www
Dave Page wrote:
> Chander Ganesan wrote:
>
>> I see your point. However, perhaps there is some other mechanism or
>> restriction that can be put in place to limit the likelihood of this
>> (one course of one type per month, a limitation on annual courses
>> listed, or a "per listing" fee charged to not-for-free companies)? Such
>> restrictions would at least limit abuse to some extent.. Or perhaps
>> limiting listed courses to states where companies are registered as
>> corporations... Such information is freely available, and it could be
>> required that companies provide a link to their articles of
>> incorporation in the states where they provide training - easy to check
>> without undue work on those that filter events...
>>
>
> Limiting the number of listings is not in our interests - we want to
> show how much PostgreSQL is being used. Perhaps more importantly, how
> *widely*. We'd want to list courses running in every state, even if they
> were all the same company.
However, corporate marketing is not a quantifiable metric as to usage.
I'd argue that the number of courses offered has no bearing on how
widely or how much PostgreSQL is being used.
> Charging would almost certainly cause us problems given our financial
> status. I suspect we could 'solicit donations', but that would obviously
> not have the desired effect.
>
Charging (or requiring a sizable donation to get "front page" status)
would provide a commercial entity an incentive to offer genuine events.
We already make fairly regular donations through SPI (btw, I was told
there would be a donors page at some point...any ideas as to when that
might appear?), and I doubt that any commercial organization that makes
a profit from PG would be loathe to donate 50% of the "per-head cost"
for 1 student or something along those lines for each event
listed....especially when they expect that they'll run a class with a
lot more than a single student.
> Limiting to the states in which companies are registered is a nonsense
> as well - what about a company in Japan? How do we check them? Or what
> about EnterpriseDB UK Ltd for example who cover the whole EMEA region -
> would they (== we in case you didn't realise I work for them) be
> restricted to listing courses in England because that's where we're
> registered?
Yep, it's not nearly a perfect solution...
> Don't misunderstand - I'm not trying to dodge the issue. I just don't
> think there's a straightforward solution :-(
>
>
>> If others (ourselves included) are forced to take the same action to be
>> competitive then it results in a reduction in the usefulness of the
>> tool. One could argue that removing it entirely to prevent abuse would
>> be less disruptive than having PG related companies flounder due to the
>> actions of a few "bad citizens".
>>
>
> Let's remember that there are no proven 'bad citizens'. Unless that
> should change, for you to 'take the same action' would mean scheduling
> more legitimate courses - which I'd welcome :-)
Understood.
Chander Ganesan
Open Technology Group, Inc.
One Copley Parkway, Suite 210
Morrisville, NC 27560
Phone: 877-258-8987/919-463-0999
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate
> subscribe-nomail command to [email protected] so that your
> message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
>
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: Event Spam..???
2007-05-11 15:47 Event Spam..??? Chander Ganesan <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 17:13 ` Re: Event Spam..??? Dave Page <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 18:03 ` Re: Event Spam..??? Chander Ganesan <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 19:06 ` Re: Event Spam..??? Dave Page <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 19:42 ` Re: Event Spam..??? Chander Ganesan <[email protected]>
@ 2007-05-11 23:37 ` Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: Joshua D. Drake @ 2007-05-11 23:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Chander Ganesan <[email protected]>; +Cc: Dave Page <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
> Charging (or requiring a sizable donation to get "front page" status)
> would provide a commercial entity an incentive to offer genuine events.
> We already make fairly regular donations through SPI (btw, I was told
> there would be a donors page at some point...any ideas as to when that
> might appear?), and I doubt that any commercial organization that makes
That's on me. There is some disagreement on how it should be done.
Joshua D. Drake
--
=== The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. ===
Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564 || 24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240
Providing the most comprehensive PostgreSQL solutions since 1997
http://www.commandprompt.com/
Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
PostgreSQL Replication: http://www.commandprompt.com/products/
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 16+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2007-05-12 12:28 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 16+ messages (download: mbox mbox.gz follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2007-05-11 15:47 Event Spam..??? Chander Ganesan <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 16:00 ` Dave Page <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 16:02 ` Chander Ganesan <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 16:37 ` Dave Page <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 16:39 ` Chander Ganesan <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 17:06 ` Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 17:13 ` Dave Page <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 18:03 ` Chander Ganesan <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 19:06 ` Dave Page <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 19:22 ` Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 19:50 ` Dave Page <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 20:09 ` Chander Ganesan <[email protected]>
2007-05-12 12:28 ` Andrew Sullivan <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 20:22 ` Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 19:42 ` Chander Ganesan <[email protected]>
2007-05-11 23:37 ` Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
This inbox is served by agora; see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox