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* Request to Remove Unused xmin Column from Function Properties Queries
@ 2025-07-28 13:21 Abhinav Patni <[email protected]>
2025-07-28 13:57 ` Re: Request to Remove Unused xmin Column from Function Properties Queries Dave Page <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Abhinav Patni @ 2025-07-28 13:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: [email protected]
Dear pgAdmin Team,
Queries for the xmin system column are causing errors and breaking
function/property dialogs. I see xmin is fetched in property queries
(e.g., functions/templates/*/properties.sql) but is always ignored in
processing, as in:
web/pgadmin/browser/server_groups/servers/databases/schemas/functions/init.py:
keys_to_ignore = ['oid', 'proowner', 'typnsp', 'xmin', …]
Can we drop xmin from these queries? Are there reasons to keep it? If
not, would you accept a patch to remove it?
Thanks,
Abhinav Patni
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Request to Remove Unused xmin Column from Function Properties Queries
2025-07-28 13:21 Request to Remove Unused xmin Column from Function Properties Queries Abhinav Patni <[email protected]>
@ 2025-07-28 13:57 ` Dave Page <[email protected]>
2025-07-28 14:00 ` Re: Request to Remove Unused xmin Column from Function Properties Queries Abhinav Patni <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Dave Page @ 2025-07-28 13:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Abhinav Patni <[email protected]>; +Cc: [email protected]
Hi
On Mon, 28 Jul 2025 at 14:46, Abhinav Patni <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Dear pgAdmin Team,
>
> Queries for the xmin system column are causing errors and breaking
> function/property dialogs.
What errors or breakage do you see, and in what circumstances? Querying for
xmin shouldn't cause any issues on any supported PostgreSQL version, even
if it's not used.
> I see xmin is fetched in property queries
> (e.g., functions/templates/*/properties.sql) but is always ignored in
> processing, as in:
>
>
> web/pgadmin/browser/server_groups/servers/databases/schemas/functions/init.py:
> keys_to_ignore = ['oid', 'proowner', 'typnsp', 'xmin', …]
>
> Can we drop xmin from these queries? Are there reasons to keep it? If
> not, would you accept a patch to remove it?
>
> Thanks,
> Abhinav Patni
>
>
>
--
Dave Page
pgAdmin: https://www.pgadmin.org
PostgreSQL: https://www.postgresql.org
pgEdge: https://www.pgedge.com
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Request to Remove Unused xmin Column from Function Properties Queries
2025-07-28 13:21 Request to Remove Unused xmin Column from Function Properties Queries Abhinav Patni <[email protected]>
2025-07-28 13:57 ` Re: Request to Remove Unused xmin Column from Function Properties Queries Dave Page <[email protected]>
@ 2025-07-28 14:00 ` Abhinav Patni <[email protected]>
2025-07-29 08:37 ` Re: Request to Remove Unused xmin Column from Function Properties Queries Dave Page <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Abhinav Patni @ 2025-07-28 14:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dave Page <[email protected]>; +Cc: [email protected]
Hi
I am seeing issues when using aurora postgres limitless. It doesn’t support
these columns, for function properties why do we need to query xmin value?
Is it supporting some other use case?
On Mon, 28 Jul 2025 at 7:28 PM, Dave Page <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi
>
> On Mon, 28 Jul 2025 at 14:46, Abhinav Patni <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear pgAdmin Team,
>>
>> Queries for the xmin system column are causing errors and breaking
>> function/property dialogs.
>
>
> What errors or breakage do you see, and in what circumstances? Querying
> for xmin shouldn't cause any issues on any supported PostgreSQL version,
> even if it's not used.
>
>
>> I see xmin is fetched in property queries
>> (e.g., functions/templates/*/properties.sql) but is always ignored in
>> processing, as in:
>>
>>
>> web/pgadmin/browser/server_groups/servers/databases/schemas/functions/init.py:
>> keys_to_ignore = ['oid', 'proowner', 'typnsp', 'xmin', …]
>>
>> Can we drop xmin from these queries? Are there reasons to keep it? If
>> not, would you accept a patch to remove it?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Abhinav Patni
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Dave Page
> pgAdmin: https://www.pgadmin.org
> PostgreSQL: https://www.postgresql.org
> pgEdge: https://www.pgedge.com
>
>
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Request to Remove Unused xmin Column from Function Properties Queries
2025-07-28 13:21 Request to Remove Unused xmin Column from Function Properties Queries Abhinav Patni <[email protected]>
2025-07-28 13:57 ` Re: Request to Remove Unused xmin Column from Function Properties Queries Dave Page <[email protected]>
2025-07-28 14:00 ` Re: Request to Remove Unused xmin Column from Function Properties Queries Abhinav Patni <[email protected]>
@ 2025-07-29 08:37 ` Dave Page <[email protected]>
2025-07-29 08:59 ` Re: Request to Remove Unused xmin Column from Function Properties Queries Abhinav Patni <[email protected]>
2025-07-29 09:24 ` Re: Request to Remove Unused xmin Column from Function Properties Queries Darren Duncan <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 2 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Dave Page @ 2025-07-29 08:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Abhinav Patni <[email protected]>; +Cc: [email protected]
Hi
On Mon, 28 Jul 2025 at 15:00, Abhinav Patni <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Hi
> I am seeing issues when using aurora postgres limitless. It doesn’t
> support these columns, for function properties why do we need to query xmin
> value? Is it supporting some other use case?
>
Aurora isn't something we support, as it's different from PostgreSQL in
many ways. If xmin isn't used in this case (which seems likely), then I
don't see any reason not to remove it from the query, but there will likely
be other ways in which pgAdmin won't work properly with Aurora, that may
not be so easy to fix.
Please feel free to submit a pull request at
https://github.com/pgadmin-org/pgadmin4
Thanks!
--
Dave Page
pgAdmin: https://www.pgadmin.org
PostgreSQL: https://www.postgresql.org
pgEdge: https://www.pgedge.com
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Request to Remove Unused xmin Column from Function Properties Queries
2025-07-28 13:21 Request to Remove Unused xmin Column from Function Properties Queries Abhinav Patni <[email protected]>
2025-07-28 13:57 ` Re: Request to Remove Unused xmin Column from Function Properties Queries Dave Page <[email protected]>
2025-07-28 14:00 ` Re: Request to Remove Unused xmin Column from Function Properties Queries Abhinav Patni <[email protected]>
2025-07-29 08:37 ` Re: Request to Remove Unused xmin Column from Function Properties Queries Dave Page <[email protected]>
@ 2025-07-29 08:59 ` Abhinav Patni <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Abhinav Patni @ 2025-07-29 08:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dave Page <[email protected]>; +Cc: [email protected]
Hi Dave,
Thanks for your prompt response and for clarifying the situation. I
appreciate your guidance! For this particular use case, I'll move
forward with the fix as discussed. If I encounter other
incompatibilities, I'll reach out or look into them further.
Thanks again!
On Tue, Jul 29, 2025 at 2:07 PM Dave Page <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> On Mon, 28 Jul 2025 at 15:00, Abhinav Patni <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi
>> I am seeing issues when using aurora postgres limitless. It doesn’t support these columns, for function properties why do we need to query xmin value? Is it supporting some other use case?
>
>
> Aurora isn't something we support, as it's different from PostgreSQL in many ways. If xmin isn't used in this case (which seems likely), then I don't see any reason not to remove it from the query, but there will likely be other ways in which pgAdmin won't work properly with Aurora, that may not be so easy to fix.
>
> Please feel free to submit a pull request at https://github.com/pgadmin-org/pgadmin4
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> Dave Page
> pgAdmin: https://www.pgadmin.org
> PostgreSQL: https://www.postgresql.org
> pgEdge: https://www.pgedge.com
>
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Request to Remove Unused xmin Column from Function Properties Queries
2025-07-28 13:21 Request to Remove Unused xmin Column from Function Properties Queries Abhinav Patni <[email protected]>
2025-07-28 13:57 ` Re: Request to Remove Unused xmin Column from Function Properties Queries Dave Page <[email protected]>
2025-07-28 14:00 ` Re: Request to Remove Unused xmin Column from Function Properties Queries Abhinav Patni <[email protected]>
2025-07-29 08:37 ` Re: Request to Remove Unused xmin Column from Function Properties Queries Dave Page <[email protected]>
@ 2025-07-29 09:24 ` Darren Duncan <[email protected]>
2025-07-29 09:48 ` Re: Request to Remove Unused xmin Column from Function Properties Queries Dave Page <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Darren Duncan @ 2025-07-29 09:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: [email protected]
I had understood that Aurora mainly differed with its lower level internals
implementation, but that it should look the same from a user perspective and
thus be drop-in compatible with regular Postgres in practice, such that any
database schemas or clients that work in regular should work with it unmodified.
What are the main differences you see in Aurora that are surfaced to users such
that they would have any kinds of impact on pgAdmin compatibility?
Darren Duncan
On 2025-07-29 1:37 a.m., Dave Page wrote:
> Hi
>
> On Mon, 28 Jul 2025 at 15:00, Abhinav Patni wrote:
>
> Hi
> I am seeing issues when using aurora postgres limitless. It doesn’t support
> these columns, for function properties why do we need to query xmin value?
> Is it supporting some other use case?
>
> Aurora isn't something we support, as it's different from PostgreSQL in many
> ways. If xmin isn't used in this case (which seems likely), then I don't see any
> reason not to remove it from the query, but there will likely be other ways in
> which pgAdmin won't work properly with Aurora, that may not be so easy to fix.
>
> Please feel free to submit a pull request at https://github.com/pgadmin-org/
> pgadmin4 <https://github.com/pgadmin-org/pgadmin4;
>
> Thanks!
> --
> Dave Page
> pgAdmin: https://www.pgadmin.org <https://www.pgadmin.org;
> PostgreSQL: https://www.postgresql.org <https://www.postgresql.org;
> pgEdge: https://www.pgedge.com <https://www.pgedge.com;
>
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Request to Remove Unused xmin Column from Function Properties Queries
2025-07-28 13:21 Request to Remove Unused xmin Column from Function Properties Queries Abhinav Patni <[email protected]>
2025-07-28 13:57 ` Re: Request to Remove Unused xmin Column from Function Properties Queries Dave Page <[email protected]>
2025-07-28 14:00 ` Re: Request to Remove Unused xmin Column from Function Properties Queries Abhinav Patni <[email protected]>
2025-07-29 08:37 ` Re: Request to Remove Unused xmin Column from Function Properties Queries Dave Page <[email protected]>
2025-07-29 09:24 ` Re: Request to Remove Unused xmin Column from Function Properties Queries Darren Duncan <[email protected]>
@ 2025-07-29 09:48 ` Dave Page <[email protected]>
2025-07-29 10:18 ` Re: Request to Remove Unused xmin Column from Function Properties Queries Darren Duncan <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Dave Page @ 2025-07-29 09:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Darren Duncan <[email protected]>; +Cc: [email protected]
On Tue, 29 Jul 2025 at 10:24, Darren Duncan <[email protected]> wrote:
> I had understood that Aurora mainly differed with its lower level
> internals
> implementation, but that it should look the same from a user perspective
> and
> thus be drop-in compatible with regular Postgres in practice, such that
> any
> database schemas or clients that work in regular should work with it
> unmodified.
>
> What are the main differences you see in Aurora that are surfaced to users
> such
> that they would have any kinds of impact on pgAdmin compatibility?
>
Things related to the underlying storage engine like system columns on
tables, for example xmin/xmax/ctid which might be different, but there are
also a bunch of unsupported features (
https://docs.aws.amazon.com/aurora-dsql/latest/userguide/working-with-postgresql-compatibility-unsup...),
none of which pgAdmin knows are unsupported or in what way - e.g. are there
system catalogues that are missing, will DDL be accepted but do nothing or
will it throw errors, will some of the catalogues be missing individual
columns that may not be needed because certain features are unsupported?
The list is likely longer than that, but you get the gist.
--
Dave Page
pgAdmin: https://www.pgadmin.org
PostgreSQL: https://www.postgresql.org
pgEdge: https://www.pgedge.com
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Request to Remove Unused xmin Column from Function Properties Queries
2025-07-28 13:21 Request to Remove Unused xmin Column from Function Properties Queries Abhinav Patni <[email protected]>
2025-07-28 13:57 ` Re: Request to Remove Unused xmin Column from Function Properties Queries Dave Page <[email protected]>
2025-07-28 14:00 ` Re: Request to Remove Unused xmin Column from Function Properties Queries Abhinav Patni <[email protected]>
2025-07-29 08:37 ` Re: Request to Remove Unused xmin Column from Function Properties Queries Dave Page <[email protected]>
2025-07-29 09:24 ` Re: Request to Remove Unused xmin Column from Function Properties Queries Darren Duncan <[email protected]>
2025-07-29 09:48 ` Re: Request to Remove Unused xmin Column from Function Properties Queries Dave Page <[email protected]>
@ 2025-07-29 10:18 ` Darren Duncan <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Darren Duncan @ 2025-07-29 10:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: [email protected]
So it looks like there are at least 2 distinct versions of Postgres-compatible
Amazon Aurora.
The regular Aurora would have all the regular Postgres features I suppose.
While the one you linked to is a specialized Distributed or DSQL variant and I
see it is actually missing a huge amount of standard features, including foreign
keys, sequences, triggers, exclusion constraints, and mixing DDL and DML in a
common transaction.
Darren Duncan
On 2025-07-29 2:48 a.m., Dave Page wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Jul 2025 at 10:24, Darren Duncan wrote:
>
> I had understood that Aurora mainly differed with its lower level internals
> implementation, but that it should look the same from a user perspective and
> thus be drop-in compatible with regular Postgres in practice, such that any
> database schemas or clients that work in regular should work with it unmodified.
>
> What are the main differences you see in Aurora that are surfaced to users such
> that they would have any kinds of impact on pgAdmin compatibility?
>
>
> Things related to the underlying storage engine like system columns on tables,
> for example xmin/xmax/ctid which might be different, but there are also a bunch
> of unsupported features (https://docs.aws.amazon.com/aurora-dsql/latest/
> userguide/working-with-postgresql-compatibility-unsupported-features.html), none of which pgAdmin
> knows are unsupported or in what way - e.g. are there system catalogues that are
> missing, will DDL be accepted but do nothing or will it throw errors, will some
> of the catalogues be missing individual columns that may not be needed because
> certain features are unsupported? The list is likely longer than that, but you
> get the gist.
>
> --
> Dave Page
> pgAdmin: https://www.pgadmin.org <https://www.pgadmin.org;
> PostgreSQL: https://www.postgresql.org <https://www.postgresql.org;
> pgEdge: https://www.pgedge.com <https://www.pgedge.com;
>
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 8+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2025-07-29 10:18 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 8+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed)
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2025-07-28 13:21 Request to Remove Unused xmin Column from Function Properties Queries Abhinav Patni <[email protected]>
2025-07-28 13:57 ` Dave Page <[email protected]>
2025-07-28 14:00 ` Abhinav Patni <[email protected]>
2025-07-29 08:37 ` Dave Page <[email protected]>
2025-07-29 08:59 ` Abhinav Patni <[email protected]>
2025-07-29 09:24 ` Darren Duncan <[email protected]>
2025-07-29 09:48 ` Dave Page <[email protected]>
2025-07-29 10:18 ` Darren Duncan <[email protected]>
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