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* Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare
@ 2000-12-30 01:54 Tim Kientzle <kientzle@acm.org>
2001-01-02 21:07 ` Re: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 22+ messages in thread
From: Tim Kientzle @ 2000-12-30 01:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: PostgreSQL general mailing list <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
> Search were almost the same ... sorting and
> reading sorted entries from dba was the same.
> But insert/modify/delete [ were up to 15 times
> slower in PostgreSQL than MySQL ].
One of MySQL's big speed problems involves
multi-user situations where some users are writing
while others are reading; MySQL's table-level
locking is a real drawback here, which is
something your testing apparently did not
exercise. (The new row-level locking code
should alleviate this, but it's _very_ new
and not something I'd want to risk in a production
system today.)
I've had several problems in the past with
MySQL when one client would request a
time-consuming DELETE (e.g., dropping several
million rows containing last month's web log
data). The DELETE could lock the table (and block
most of the clients) for long periods of
time (anywhere from 10 minutes to 1/2 hour
for one system I implemented).
In practice, of course, web applications are
usually >99% reads, so this issue is often
not a big problem. Nevertheless, if you're
going to go with MySQL (which is a fine product),
you should give some consideration to avoiding
any time-consuming table modifications. (In the
system I mentioned above, we moved the log data
out of the database and into rotated log files
on disk, which addressed the problem quite handily.)
I also have some minor concerns about data
integrity with MySQL's Berkeley DB tables, since I
understand that the BDB tables store the row
data within the B-Tree. This is fundamentally
a less reliable design than other MySQL table
types, which separate the data file from the
index file. Index files are inherently more
brittle, but easy to reconstruct if they get
damaged. An almost purely theoretical quibble.
More seriously, I'm also not certain whether
MySQL's table-recovery utilities support BDB
tables at all right now. This gives me pause.
One big advantage of MySQL over PostgreSQL
right now is ease of upgrading. Upgrading
MySQL just requires shutting down the old
one and starting the new; PostgreSQL requires
a more involved process to migrate all of
your data. (Of course, upgrading your DB
is never a simple matter, but at least
MySQL tries to make it less painful.)
- Tim
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare
2000-12-30 01:54 Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Tim Kientzle <kientzle@acm.org>
@ 2001-01-02 21:07 ` Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2001-01-02 22:47 ` RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Eric Mueller <eric@themepark.com>
2001-01-03 00:40 ` Re: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Tim Kientzle <kientzle@acm.org>
0 siblings, 2 replies; 22+ messages in thread
From: Bruce Momjian @ 2001-01-02 21:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: kientzle@acm.org; +Cc: PostgreSQL general mailing list <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
> One big advantage of MySQL over PostgreSQL
> right now is ease of upgrading. Upgrading
> MySQL just requires shutting down the old
> one and starting the new; PostgreSQL requires
> a more involved process to migrate all of
> your data. (Of course, upgrading your DB
> is never a simple matter, but at least
> MySQL tries to make it less painful.)
Yes, that is a good point. We are clearly fixing/improving the storage
system, while MySQL has been able to keep the same one for many years.
--
Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 22+ messages in thread
* RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare
2000-12-30 01:54 Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Tim Kientzle <kientzle@acm.org>
2001-01-02 21:07 ` Re: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
@ 2001-01-02 22:47 ` Eric Mueller <eric@themepark.com>
2001-01-02 23:53 ` Re: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare GH <grasshacker@over-yonder.net>
2001-01-03 00:39 ` Re: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Dominic J. Eidson <sauron@the-infinite.org>
2001-01-03 01:12 ` Re: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com>
2001-01-03 02:37 ` Re: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Lincoln Yeoh <lyeoh@pop.jaring.my>
1 sibling, 4 replies; 22+ messages in thread
From: Eric Mueller @ 2001-01-02 22:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 'PostgreSQL general mailing list' <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
...another advantage I've seen is the documentation! MySQL has its functions
clearly documented on the mysql.com site; I not able to find detailed docs
for the pgsql functions anywhere on the postgresql site.
-----Original Message-----
From: pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org
[mailto:pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org]On Behalf Of Bruce Momjian
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2001 1:08 PM
To: kientzle@acm.org
Cc: PostgreSQL general mailing list
Subject: Re: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare
> One big advantage of MySQL over PostgreSQL
> right now is ease of upgrading. Upgrading
> MySQL just requires shutting down the old
> one and starting the new; PostgreSQL requires
> a more involved process to migrate all of
> your data. (Of course, upgrading your DB
> is never a simple matter, but at least
> MySQL tries to make it less painful.)
Yes, that is a good point. We are clearly fixing/improving the storage
system, while MySQL has been able to keep the same one for many years.
--
Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare
2000-12-30 01:54 Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Tim Kientzle <kientzle@acm.org>
2001-01-02 21:07 ` Re: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2001-01-02 22:47 ` RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Eric Mueller <eric@themepark.com>
@ 2001-01-02 23:53 ` GH <grasshacker@over-yonder.net>
2001-01-03 00:20 ` RE: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Eric Mueller <eric@themepark.com>
3 siblings, 1 reply; 22+ messages in thread
From: GH @ 2001-01-02 23:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eric Mueller <eric@themepark.com>; +Cc: 'PostgreSQL general mailing list' <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
On Tue, Jan 02, 2001 at 02:47:05PM -0800, some SMTP stream spewed forth:
> ...another advantage I've seen is the documentation! MySQL has its functions
> clearly documented on the mysql.com site; I not able to find detailed docs
> for the pgsql functions anywhere on the postgresql site.
I ask you the same question I ask myself in such situations:
How much documentation have I written?
How much have I aided the Cause?
gh
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org
> [mailto:pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org]On Behalf Of Bruce Momjian
> Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2001 1:08 PM
> To: kientzle@acm.org
> Cc: PostgreSQL general mailing list
> Subject: Re: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare
>
> > One big advantage of MySQL over PostgreSQL
> > right now is ease of upgrading. Upgrading
> > MySQL just requires shutting down the old
> > one and starting the new; PostgreSQL requires
> > a more involved process to migrate all of
> > your data. (Of course, upgrading your DB
> > is never a simple matter, but at least
> > MySQL tries to make it less painful.)
>
> Yes, that is a good point. We are clearly fixing/improving the storage
> system, while MySQL has been able to keep the same one for many years.
>
> --
> Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
> pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000
> + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
> + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
>
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 22+ messages in thread
* RE: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare
2000-12-30 01:54 Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Tim Kientzle <kientzle@acm.org>
2001-01-02 21:07 ` Re: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2001-01-02 22:47 ` RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Eric Mueller <eric@themepark.com>
2001-01-02 23:53 ` Re: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare GH <grasshacker@over-yonder.net>
@ 2001-01-03 00:20 ` Eric Mueller <eric@themepark.com>
2001-01-03 03:48 ` Re: RE: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Adam Haberlach <adam@newsnipple.com>
2001-01-03 04:23 ` Re: RE: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2001-01-03 17:32 ` Re: RE: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
0 siblings, 3 replies; 22+ messages in thread
From: Eric Mueller @ 2001-01-03 00:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 'PostgreSQL general mailing list' <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
I'm happy to contribute once I feel like I've got something to offer, which
I won't know until I have the lay of the land, and that's the problem. As a
long-time coder picking up postgresql for the first time, I'm baffled by
what seems to be a lack of detailed documentation for something so
fundamental as the built-in functions. Do the docs for the functions even
exist? Are they in the dist but not published on the web site? Zen-like
riddles and causes-in-need-of-aid aside, any hints to the answer for such a
basic question would help me get started with what seems like a very
powerful tool.
-----Original Message-----
From: pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org
[mailto:pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org]On Behalf Of GH
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2001 3:53 PM
To: Eric Mueller
Cc: 'PostgreSQL general mailing list'
Subject: Re: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare
On Tue, Jan 02, 2001 at 02:47:05PM -0800, some SMTP stream spewed forth:
> ...another advantage I've seen is the documentation! MySQL has its
functions
> clearly documented on the mysql.com site; I not able to find detailed docs
> for the pgsql functions anywhere on the postgresql site.
I ask you the same question I ask myself in such situations:
How much documentation have I written?
How much have I aided the Cause?
gh
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org
> [mailto:pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org]On Behalf Of Bruce Momjian
> Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2001 1:08 PM
> To: kientzle@acm.org
> Cc: PostgreSQL general mailing list
> Subject: Re: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare
>
> > One big advantage of MySQL over PostgreSQL
> > right now is ease of upgrading. Upgrading
> > MySQL just requires shutting down the old
> > one and starting the new; PostgreSQL requires
> > a more involved process to migrate all of
> > your data. (Of course, upgrading your DB
> > is never a simple matter, but at least
> > MySQL tries to make it less painful.)
>
> Yes, that is a good point. We are clearly fixing/improving the storage
> system, while MySQL has been able to keep the same one for many years.
>
> --
> Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
> pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000
> + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
> + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
>
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: RE: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare
2000-12-30 01:54 Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Tim Kientzle <kientzle@acm.org>
2001-01-02 21:07 ` Re: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2001-01-02 22:47 ` RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Eric Mueller <eric@themepark.com>
2001-01-02 23:53 ` Re: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare GH <grasshacker@over-yonder.net>
2001-01-03 00:20 ` RE: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Eric Mueller <eric@themepark.com>
@ 2001-01-03 03:48 ` Adam Haberlach <adam@newsnipple.com>
2 siblings, 0 replies; 22+ messages in thread
From: Adam Haberlach @ 2001-01-03 03:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eric Mueller <eric@themepark.com>; +Cc: 'PostgreSQL general mailing list' <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
On Tue, Jan 02, 2001 at 04:20:53PM -0800, Eric Mueller wrote:
> I'm happy to contribute once I feel like I've got something to offer, which
> I won't know until I have the lay of the land, and that's the problem. As a
> long-time coder picking up postgresql for the first time, I'm baffled by
> what seems to be a lack of detailed documentation for something so
> fundamental as the built-in functions. Do the docs for the functions even
> exist? Are they in the dist but not published on the web site? Zen-like
> riddles and causes-in-need-of-aid aside, any hints to the answer for such a
> basic question would help me get started with what seems like a very
> powerful tool.
From the aforementioned "Big Integrated Document" at
http://www.postgresql.org/docs/postgres/index.html
5. Functions
SQL Functions
Mathematical Functions
String Functions
.
.
.
As has been said, it seems that you need big flashing red letters before
you will acknowledge documentation. If you are going to use postgres, good,
more power to you. If you want to use MySQL, go right ahead. If all you are
going to do is hang around here complaining, I'd rather you take it somewhere
else.
--
Adam Haberlach |A cat spends her life conflicted between a
adam@newsnipple.com |deep, passionate, and profound desire for
http://www.newsnipple.com |fish and an equally deep, passionate, and
'88 EX500 |profound desire to avoid getting wet.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: RE: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare
2000-12-30 01:54 Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Tim Kientzle <kientzle@acm.org>
2001-01-02 21:07 ` Re: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2001-01-02 22:47 ` RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Eric Mueller <eric@themepark.com>
2001-01-02 23:53 ` Re: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare GH <grasshacker@over-yonder.net>
2001-01-03 00:20 ` RE: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Eric Mueller <eric@themepark.com>
@ 2001-01-03 04:23 ` Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2001-01-03 09:59 ` Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare drevil@sidereal.kz
2 siblings, 1 reply; 22+ messages in thread
From: Tom Lane @ 2001-01-03 04:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eric Mueller <eric@themepark.com>; +Cc: 'PostgreSQL general mailing list' <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
"Eric Mueller" <eric@themepark.com> writes:
> ... I'm baffled by
> what seems to be a lack of detailed documentation for something so
> fundamental as the built-in functions.
The docs we have can be found at
http://www.postgresql.org/devel-corner/docs/postgres/
While they're usable, I don't think there's anyone around here who
wouldn't agree that they could stand improvement. If you can read code
and write English, then Uncle Sam wants *YOU* to help improve the docs.
Feel free to step up to the plate and swing away ...
regards, tom lane
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare
2000-12-30 01:54 Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Tim Kientzle <kientzle@acm.org>
2001-01-02 21:07 ` Re: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2001-01-02 22:47 ` RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Eric Mueller <eric@themepark.com>
2001-01-02 23:53 ` Re: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare GH <grasshacker@over-yonder.net>
2001-01-03 00:20 ` RE: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Eric Mueller <eric@themepark.com>
2001-01-03 04:23 ` Re: RE: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
@ 2001-01-03 09:59 ` drevil@sidereal.kz
0 siblings, 0 replies; 22+ messages in thread
From: drevil@sidereal.kz @ 2001-01-03 09:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pgsql-general@postgresql.org
> The docs we have can be found at
> http://www.postgresql.org/devel-corner/docs/postgres/
> While they're usable, I don't think there's anyone around here who
> wouldn't agree that they could stand improvement. If you can read code
> and write English, then Uncle Sam wants *YOU* to help improve the docs.
> Feel free to step up to the plate and swing away ...
The docs for user-defined functions are very brief, but they do seem
to cover most of it, and they are mostly correct. It's not a fun
programming language, but I have written thousands of lines of it, and
it works. Maybe I'll try to document it a little bit.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: RE: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare
2000-12-30 01:54 Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Tim Kientzle <kientzle@acm.org>
2001-01-02 21:07 ` Re: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2001-01-02 22:47 ` RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Eric Mueller <eric@themepark.com>
2001-01-02 23:53 ` Re: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare GH <grasshacker@over-yonder.net>
2001-01-03 00:20 ` RE: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Eric Mueller <eric@themepark.com>
@ 2001-01-03 17:32 ` Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
2001-01-03 17:47 ` Re: RE: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Brett W. McCoy <bmccoy@chapelperilous.net>
2001-01-03 19:39 ` RE: RE: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Eric Mueller <eric@themepark.com>
2001-01-05 10:37 ` Re: [GENERAL] RE: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Ron Chmara <ron@Opus1.COM>
2 siblings, 3 replies; 22+ messages in thread
From: Peter Eisentraut @ 2001-01-03 17:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eric Mueller <eric@themepark.com>; +Cc: 'PostgreSQL general mailing list' <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
Eric Mueller writes:
> I'm baffled by what seems to be a lack of detailed documentation for
> something so fundamental as the built-in functions.
Just to add a particular point, in addition to Vince's excellent general
points, as the one who was last to update the function documentation:
The reason that there's no "detailed" documentation is that there are no
details. How much can you write about round(), avg(), or current_user?
--
Peter Eisentraut peter_e@gmx.net http://yi.org/peter-e/
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: RE: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare
2000-12-30 01:54 Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Tim Kientzle <kientzle@acm.org>
2001-01-02 21:07 ` Re: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2001-01-02 22:47 ` RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Eric Mueller <eric@themepark.com>
2001-01-02 23:53 ` Re: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare GH <grasshacker@over-yonder.net>
2001-01-03 00:20 ` RE: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Eric Mueller <eric@themepark.com>
2001-01-03 17:32 ` Re: RE: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
@ 2001-01-03 17:47 ` Brett W. McCoy <bmccoy@chapelperilous.net>
2 siblings, 0 replies; 22+ messages in thread
From: Brett W. McCoy @ 2001-01-03 17:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>; +Cc: Eric Mueller <eric@themepark.com>; 'PostgreSQL general mailing list' <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
On Wed, 3 Jan 2001, Peter Eisentraut wrote:
> > I'm baffled by what seems to be a lack of detailed documentation for
> > something so fundamental as the built-in functions.
>
> Just to add a particular point, in addition to Vince's excellent general
> points, as the one who was last to update the function documentation:
> The reason that there's no "detailed" documentation is that there are no
> details. How much can you write about round(), avg(), or current_user?
Actually, I like the 'grid' layout that the functions are listed in -- it
gives the syntax, the return value and an example of usage, all in a
single glance.
-- Brett
http://www.chapelperilous.net/~bmccoy/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
You will be the victim of a bizarre joke.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 22+ messages in thread
* RE: RE: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare
2000-12-30 01:54 Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Tim Kientzle <kientzle@acm.org>
2001-01-02 21:07 ` Re: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2001-01-02 22:47 ` RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Eric Mueller <eric@themepark.com>
2001-01-02 23:53 ` Re: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare GH <grasshacker@over-yonder.net>
2001-01-03 00:20 ` RE: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Eric Mueller <eric@themepark.com>
2001-01-03 17:32 ` Re: RE: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
@ 2001-01-03 19:39 ` Eric Mueller <eric@themepark.com>
2 siblings, 0 replies; 22+ messages in thread
From: Eric Mueller @ 2001-01-03 19:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 'Peter Eisentraut' <peter_e@gmx.net>; +Cc: pgsql-general@postgresql.org
Peter - agreed, those are pretty basic functions. I'm thinking more about
stuff like the date/time functions-- abstime(), age(), interval(), that sort
of thing. I see interval() in the grid and notice that it has the word
'reltime'-- is that a data type? How is it used? Does interval() accept any
other types of parameters? How would I use this?
It's a bit like being thrown into a cold swimming pool-- I can certainly
figure it out, given enough time and experimentation, but I'm just surprised
that it's not more detailed. This is not bagging on the documentation folks
as much as it is an expression of my surprise that it's not more detailed.
Postgreql is so popular online that I came to it expecting something more
along the lines of the online docs for PHP or MySQL.
best,
Eric
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Eisentraut [mailto:peter_e@gmx.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 9:33 AM
To: Eric Mueller
Cc: 'PostgreSQL general mailing list'
Subject: Re: [GENERAL] RE: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare
Eric Mueller writes:
> I'm baffled by what seems to be a lack of detailed documentation for
> something so fundamental as the built-in functions.
Just to add a particular point, in addition to Vince's excellent general
points, as the one who was last to update the function documentation:
The reason that there's no "detailed" documentation is that there are no
details. How much can you write about round(), avg(), or current_user?
--
Peter Eisentraut peter_e@gmx.net http://yi.org/peter-e/
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] RE: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare
2000-12-30 01:54 Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Tim Kientzle <kientzle@acm.org>
2001-01-02 21:07 ` Re: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2001-01-02 22:47 ` RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Eric Mueller <eric@themepark.com>
2001-01-02 23:53 ` Re: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare GH <grasshacker@over-yonder.net>
2001-01-03 00:20 ` RE: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Eric Mueller <eric@themepark.com>
2001-01-03 17:32 ` Re: RE: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
@ 2001-01-05 10:37 ` Ron Chmara <ron@Opus1.COM>
2 siblings, 0 replies; 22+ messages in thread
From: Ron Chmara @ 2001-01-05 10:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>; +Cc: Eric Mueller <eric@themepark.com>; 'PostgreSQL general mailing list' <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>; pgsql-docs
Peter Eisentraut wrote:
> Just to add a particular point, in addition to Vince's excellent general
> points, as the one who was last to update the function documentation:
> The reason that there's no "detailed" documentation is that there are no
> details. How much can you write about round(), avg(), or current_user?
Usage, history, syntax, a few examples of common use (in actual code), error
messages that may result, times to avoid it, workarounds if it fails to do
what you want and similar ways of accomplishing the same thing, etc.....
Quite a bit, actually.
For example, here's what goes into the PHP round() entry:
http://www.php.net/manual/function.round.php
The inital documentation *is* slim. But the user-added notes (which is
really what makes the php-docs work well) add to the information in a
fast, easy to use, manner, without anyone having to learn docbook,
XML, and Jade (which is what the main PHP docs are written in.).
The same feature exists on the mySQL site:
http://www.mysql.com/documentation/mysql/commented/manual.php?section=Mathematical_functions
But it's used less. They have better examples for round(), however.
Now, compare that to:
a) finding the function in the online pg docs, (what's up with that slow search?)
http://www.postgresql.org/docs/user/x2591.htm
http://www.postgresql.org/docs/postgres/x2595.htm
b) once you find it, can you add to it?
c) Are there several examples of usage?
d) Can a newbie grasp usage, or see bare-bones examples?
There's lots of details that the new users find interesting. In the php
project, some seasoned developers use a reduced version of the manual,
no notes, because they don't need it. But a newbie, staring at something
for the first time, is more than happy to see long descriptions, long
notes, etc.
The source to do this kind of thing _in_ PHP is available from their CVS,
if it's a good idea for pgsql. However, it does use a mySQL backend,
so it would need some porting. :-)
-Ronabop
--
Personal: ron@opus1.com, 520-326-6109, http://www.opus1.com/ron/
Work: rchmara@pnsinc.com, 520-546-8993, http://www.pnsinc.com/
The opinions expressed in this email are not neccesarrily those of myself,
my employers, or any of the other little voices in my head.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare
2000-12-30 01:54 Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Tim Kientzle <kientzle@acm.org>
2001-01-02 21:07 ` Re: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2001-01-02 22:47 ` RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Eric Mueller <eric@themepark.com>
@ 2001-01-03 00:39 ` Dominic J. Eidson <sauron@the-infinite.org>
2001-01-03 00:48 ` RE: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Eric Mueller <thexis@thexis.net>
2001-01-03 00:55 ` RE: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare eric@themepark.com
3 siblings, 2 replies; 22+ messages in thread
From: Dominic J. Eidson @ 2001-01-03 00:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eric Mueller <eric@themepark.com>; +Cc: 'PostgreSQL general mailing list' <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
On Tue, 2 Jan 2001, Eric Mueller wrote:
> ...another advantage I've seen is the documentation! MySQL has its functions
> clearly documented on the mysql.com site; I not able to find detailed docs
> for the pgsql functions anywhere on the postgresql site.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 22+ messages in thread
* RE: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare
2000-12-30 01:54 Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Tim Kientzle <kientzle@acm.org>
2001-01-02 21:07 ` Re: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2001-01-02 22:47 ` RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Eric Mueller <eric@themepark.com>
2001-01-03 00:39 ` Re: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Dominic J. Eidson <sauron@the-infinite.org>
@ 2001-01-03 00:48 ` Eric Mueller <thexis@thexis.net>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 22+ messages in thread
From: Eric Mueller @ 2001-01-03 00:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 'Dominic J. Eidson' <sauron@the-infinite.org>; +Cc: 'PostgreSQL general mailing list' <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
Yeah... saw those. So that's as detailed as it gets, eh? Thanks for
confirming.
-----Original Message-----
From: Dominic J. Eidson [mailto:sauron@the-infinite.org]
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2001 4:39 PM
To: Eric Mueller
Cc: 'PostgreSQL general mailing list'
Subject: Re: [GENERAL] RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare
On Tue, 2 Jan 2001, Eric Mueller wrote:
> ...another advantage I've seen is the documentation! MySQL has its
functions
> clearly documented on the mysql.com site; I not able to find detailed docs
> for the pgsql functions anywhere on the postgresql site.
From the main page, click "User's Lounge", then Click Documentation->
"English", then click "Current Release Docs (ver 7.0)".
http://www.postgresql.org:80/users-lounge/docs/7.0/postgres/functions.htm
http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/7.0/postgres/operators.htm
http://www.postgresql.org:80/users-lounge/docs/#7.0
*yawn*
--
Dominic J. Eidson
"Baruk Khazad! Khazad ai-menu!" -
Gimli
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
http://www.the-infinite.org/
http://www.the-infinite.org/~dominic/
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 22+ messages in thread
* RE: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare
2000-12-30 01:54 Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Tim Kientzle <kientzle@acm.org>
2001-01-02 21:07 ` Re: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2001-01-02 22:47 ` RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Eric Mueller <eric@themepark.com>
2001-01-03 00:39 ` Re: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Dominic J. Eidson <sauron@the-infinite.org>
@ 2001-01-03 00:55 ` eric@themepark.com
1 sibling, 0 replies; 22+ messages in thread
From: eric@themepark.com @ 2001-01-03 00:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 'Dominic J. Eidson' <sauron@the-infinite.org>; +Cc: 'PostgreSQL general mailing list' <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
Yeah... saw those. So that's as detailed as it gets, eh? Thanks for
confirming.
-----Original Message-----
From: Dominic J. Eidson [mailto:sauron@the-infinite.org]
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2001 4:39 PM
To: Eric Mueller
Cc: 'PostgreSQL general mailing list'
Subject: Re: [GENERAL] RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare
On Tue, 2 Jan 2001, Eric Mueller wrote:
> ...another advantage I've seen is the documentation! MySQL has its
functions
> clearly documented on the mysql.com site; I not able to find detailed docs
> for the pgsql functions anywhere on the postgresql site.
From the main page, click "User's Lounge", then Click Documentation->
"English", then click "Current Release Docs (ver 7.0)".
http://www.postgresql.org:80/users-lounge/docs/7.0/postgres/functions.htm
http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/7.0/postgres/operators.htm
http://www.postgresql.org:80/users-lounge/docs/#7.0
*yawn*
--
Dominic J. Eidson
"Baruk Khazad! Khazad ai-menu!" -
Gimli
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
http://www.the-infinite.org/
http://www.the-infinite.org/~dominic/
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare
2000-12-30 01:54 Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Tim Kientzle <kientzle@acm.org>
2001-01-02 21:07 ` Re: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2001-01-02 22:47 ` RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Eric Mueller <eric@themepark.com>
@ 2001-01-03 01:12 ` Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com>
3 siblings, 0 replies; 22+ messages in thread
From: Vince Vielhaber @ 2001-01-03 01:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eric Mueller <eric@themepark.com>; +Cc: 'PostgreSQL general mailing list' <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
On Tue, 2 Jan 2001, Eric Mueller wrote:
> ...another advantage I've seen is the documentation! MySQL has its functions
> clearly documented on the mysql.com site; I not able to find detailed docs
> for the pgsql functions anywhere on the postgresql site.
When I read comments like this I have to question the motives since it's
overly obvious you haven't even looked. It could be in big bold red
flashing text and you still wouldn't see it.
Vince.
--
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev@michvhf.com http://www.pop4.net
128K ISDN from $22.00/mo - 56K Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking
Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com
Online Giftshop Superstore http://www.cloudninegifts.com
==========================================================================
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare
2000-12-30 01:54 Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Tim Kientzle <kientzle@acm.org>
2001-01-02 21:07 ` Re: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2001-01-02 22:47 ` RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Eric Mueller <eric@themepark.com>
@ 2001-01-03 02:37 ` Lincoln Yeoh <lyeoh@pop.jaring.my>
2001-01-03 10:53 ` Re: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com>
3 siblings, 1 reply; 22+ messages in thread
From: Lincoln Yeoh @ 2001-01-03 02:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com>; Eric Mueller <eric@themepark.com>; +Cc: 'PostgreSQL general mailing list' <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
Actually I agree with Eric.
The documentation is not as detailed or organised for usage. But it is
decent. Only sometimes you need to resort to real-life testing to see how
things really work. I do like the real world practical info which the MySQL
docs provide.
There still isn't as much mention of limits and limitations of various
things as I'd like.
Overall it's better than a "textbook style" doc.
In contrast: take a look at Oracle's installation manual for an example of
how bad things can get ;). Compare it with a Oracle HOWTO.
Cheerio,
Link.
At 08:12 PM 02-01-2001 -0500, Vince Vielhaber wrote:
>On Tue, 2 Jan 2001, Eric Mueller wrote:
>
>> ...another advantage I've seen is the documentation! MySQL has its
functions
>> clearly documented on the mysql.com site; I not able to find detailed docs
>> for the pgsql functions anywhere on the postgresql site.
>
>When I read comments like this I have to question the motives since it's
>overly obvious you haven't even looked. It could be in big bold red
>flashing text and you still wouldn't see it.
>
>Vince.
>--
>==========================================================================
>Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev@michvhf.com http://www.pop4.net
> 128K ISDN from $22.00/mo - 56K Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking
> Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com
> Online Giftshop Superstore http://www.cloudninegifts.com
>==========================================================================
>
>
>
>
>
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare
2000-12-30 01:54 Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Tim Kientzle <kientzle@acm.org>
2001-01-02 21:07 ` Re: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2001-01-02 22:47 ` RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Eric Mueller <eric@themepark.com>
2001-01-03 02:37 ` Re: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Lincoln Yeoh <lyeoh@pop.jaring.my>
@ 2001-01-03 10:53 ` Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com>
2001-01-03 12:51 ` Re: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Gregory Wood <gregw@com-stock.com>
2001-01-03 16:44 ` Re: Re: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Tim Uckun <tim@diligence.com>
0 siblings, 2 replies; 22+ messages in thread
From: Vince Vielhaber @ 2001-01-03 10:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Lincoln Yeoh <lyeoh@pop.jaring.my>; +Cc: Eric Mueller <eric@themepark.com>; 'PostgreSQL general mailing list' <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
On Wed, 3 Jan 2001, Lincoln Yeoh wrote:
> Actually I agree with Eric.
>
> The documentation is not as detailed or organised for usage. But it is
> decent. Only sometimes you need to resort to real-life testing to see how
> things really work. I do like the real world practical info which the MySQL
> docs provide.
>
> There still isn't as much mention of limits and limitations of various
> things as I'd like.
>
> Overall it's better than a "textbook style" doc.
>
> In contrast: take a look at Oracle's installation manual for an example of
> how bad things can get ;). Compare it with a Oracle HOWTO.
Then it goes right back to what someone else eluded to... If you don't
like what you see in the documentation, contribute. Send in diffs, or
even new items. If you don't know what's needed go to the DOCS list and
ask. Getting people to help with documentation for ANY project is like
pulling teeth. Finding people to criticize existing documentation is
quite easy.
Vince.
--
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev@michvhf.com http://www.pop4.net
128K ISDN from $22.00/mo - 56K Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking
Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com
Online Giftshop Superstore http://www.cloudninegifts.com
==========================================================================
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare
2000-12-30 01:54 Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Tim Kientzle <kientzle@acm.org>
2001-01-02 21:07 ` Re: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2001-01-02 22:47 ` RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Eric Mueller <eric@themepark.com>
2001-01-03 02:37 ` Re: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Lincoln Yeoh <lyeoh@pop.jaring.my>
2001-01-03 10:53 ` Re: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com>
@ 2001-01-03 12:51 ` Gregory Wood <gregw@com-stock.com>
2001-01-03 13:05 ` Re: Re: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com>
1 sibling, 1 reply; 22+ messages in thread
From: Gregory Wood @ 2001-01-03 12:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: PostgreSQL-General <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
> Then it goes right back to what someone else eluded to... If you don't
> like what you see in the documentation, contribute. Send in diffs, or
> even new items. If you don't know what's needed go to the DOCS list and
> ask. Getting people to help with documentation for ANY project is like
> pulling teeth. Finding people to criticize existing documentation is
> quite easy.
What a horrible chicken and egg scenario... you can't help with providing
documentation until you have some deal of experience with something, but if
you ask for better documentation to get that experience, you are told to
write some. I understand the frustration, but at the same time, please
understand the frustration of those trying to learn. Personally I find the
documentation is more than adequate, but could always be improved. Hopefully
I will learn enough at some point to be able to say that I'm ready to
contribute... until then I'll be here feeding off the scraps of knowledge
that are dribbled here and there...
Greg
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare
2000-12-30 01:54 Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Tim Kientzle <kientzle@acm.org>
2001-01-02 21:07 ` Re: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2001-01-02 22:47 ` RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Eric Mueller <eric@themepark.com>
2001-01-03 02:37 ` Re: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Lincoln Yeoh <lyeoh@pop.jaring.my>
2001-01-03 10:53 ` Re: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com>
2001-01-03 12:51 ` Re: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Gregory Wood <gregw@com-stock.com>
@ 2001-01-03 13:05 ` Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 22+ messages in thread
From: Vince Vielhaber @ 2001-01-03 13:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Gregory Wood <gregw@com-stock.com>; +Cc: PostgreSQL-General <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
On Wed, 3 Jan 2001, Gregory Wood wrote:
> > Then it goes right back to what someone else eluded to... If you don't
> > like what you see in the documentation, contribute. Send in diffs, or
> > even new items. If you don't know what's needed go to the DOCS list and
> > ask. Getting people to help with documentation for ANY project is like
> > pulling teeth. Finding people to criticize existing documentation is
> > quite easy.
>
> What a horrible chicken and egg scenario... you can't help with providing
> documentation until you have some deal of experience with something, but if
> you ask for better documentation to get that experience, you are told to
> write some. I understand the frustration, but at the same time, please
> understand the frustration of those trying to learn. Personally I find the
> documentation is more than adequate, but could always be improved. Hopefully
> I will learn enough at some point to be able to say that I'm ready to
> contribute... until then I'll be here feeding off the scraps of knowledge
> that are dribbled here and there...
You need to read things again 'cuze you completely missed the point.
Vince.
--
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev@michvhf.com http://www.pop4.net
128K ISDN from $22.00/mo - 56K Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking
Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com
Online Giftshop Superstore http://www.cloudninegifts.com
==========================================================================
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare
2000-12-30 01:54 Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Tim Kientzle <kientzle@acm.org>
2001-01-02 21:07 ` Re: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2001-01-02 22:47 ` RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Eric Mueller <eric@themepark.com>
2001-01-03 02:37 ` Re: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Lincoln Yeoh <lyeoh@pop.jaring.my>
2001-01-03 10:53 ` Re: RE: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com>
@ 2001-01-03 16:44 ` Tim Uckun <tim@diligence.com>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 22+ messages in thread
From: Tim Uckun @ 2001-01-03 16:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pgsql-general@postgresql.org
>
>What a horrible chicken and egg scenario... you can't help with providing
>documentation until you have some deal of experience with something, but if
>you ask for better documentation to get that experience, you are told to
>write some. I understand the frustration, but at the same time, please
>understand the frustration of those trying to learn. Personally I find the
>documentation is more than adequate, but could always be improved. Hopefully
>I will learn enough at some point to be able to say that I'm ready to
>contribute... until then I'll be here feeding off the scraps of knowledge
>that are dribbled here and there...
You are right of course but what happens once you have learned it? For me I
never seem seem to be able to do the right thing that being "now that I
have solved the problem I should write it down and submit it to the
maintainers of the document".
:wq
Tim Uckun
Due Diligence Inc. http://www.diligence.com/ Americas Background
Investigation Expert.
If your company isn't doing background checks, maybe you haven't considered
the risks of a bad hire.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare
2000-12-30 01:54 Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Tim Kientzle <kientzle@acm.org>
2001-01-02 21:07 ` Re: Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
@ 2001-01-03 00:40 ` Tim Kientzle <kientzle@acm.org>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 22+ messages in thread
From: Tim Kientzle @ 2001-01-03 00:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>; PostgreSQL general mailing list <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > One big advantage of MySQL over PostgreSQL
> > right now is ease of upgrading.
>
> Yes, that is a good point. We are clearly
> fixing/improving the storage system, while
> MySQL has been able to keep the same one
> for many years.
Also, MySQL seems to have done a fairly good job
of abstracting the storage management, so that
they can support multiple storage managers.
They're exploiting this right now to develop
new storage systems while maintaining support
for the old ones during a transition period.
It also permits them to support features such
as in-memory temp tables and should simplify
implementing a distributed database at some
future date.
- Tim
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 22+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2001-01-05 10:37 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 22+ messages (download: mbox mbox.gz follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2000-12-30 01:54 Re: MySQL and PostgreSQL speed compare Tim Kientzle <kientzle@acm.org>
2001-01-02 21:07 ` Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2001-01-02 22:47 ` Eric Mueller <eric@themepark.com>
2001-01-02 23:53 ` GH <grasshacker@over-yonder.net>
2001-01-03 00:20 ` Eric Mueller <eric@themepark.com>
2001-01-03 03:48 ` Adam Haberlach <adam@newsnipple.com>
2001-01-03 04:23 ` Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2001-01-03 09:59 ` drevil@sidereal.kz
2001-01-03 17:32 ` Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
2001-01-03 17:47 ` Brett W. McCoy <bmccoy@chapelperilous.net>
2001-01-03 19:39 ` Eric Mueller <eric@themepark.com>
2001-01-05 10:37 ` Ron Chmara <ron@Opus1.COM>
2001-01-03 00:39 ` Dominic J. Eidson <sauron@the-infinite.org>
2001-01-03 00:48 ` Eric Mueller <thexis@thexis.net>
2001-01-03 00:55 ` eric@themepark.com
2001-01-03 01:12 ` Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com>
2001-01-03 02:37 ` Lincoln Yeoh <lyeoh@pop.jaring.my>
2001-01-03 10:53 ` Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com>
2001-01-03 12:51 ` Gregory Wood <gregw@com-stock.com>
2001-01-03 13:05 ` Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com>
2001-01-03 16:44 ` Tim Uckun <tim@diligence.com>
2001-01-03 00:40 ` Tim Kientzle <kientzle@acm.org>
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