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From: Stephen Frost <sfrost@snowman.net>
To: Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
Cc: Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
Cc: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
Cc: Jonathan S. Katz <jkatz@postgresql.org>
Cc: Peter Eisentraut <peter.eisentraut@2ndquadrant.com>
Cc: pgsql-hackers <pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org>
Cc: Noah Misch <noah@leadboat.com>
Subject: Re: initdb recommendations
Date: Fri, 24 May 2019 08:33:17 -0400
Message-ID: <20190524123317.GW2480@tamriel.snowman.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CABUevExV2YKa8cFRmFzf=cGriqhoHqwd9ev=2hWdq1kieqaV6Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <96389374-9454-d26d-6f79-7c7b15ec14bd@2ndquadrant.com>
	<81b36e8b-e27b-ab5d-c4f0-6493771bc0ee@postgresql.org>
	<9f46f065-ca80-f637-8c5d-a9877bcd5eab@postgresql.org>
	<10093.1558664907@sss.pgh.pa.us>
	<20190524023009.GL2480@tamriel.snowman.net>
	<df011ad3-f1a3-149e-3489-2d68e6ea21a7@joeconway.com>
	<20190524121306.GS2480@tamriel.snowman.net>
	<17041a05-0e28-f2b1-bf0c-fe375af66b45@joeconway.com>
	<20190524121904.GU2480@tamriel.snowman.net>
	<CABUevExV2YKa8cFRmFzf=cGriqhoHqwd9ev=2hWdq1kieqaV6Q@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings,

* Magnus Hagander (magnus@hagander.net) wrote:
> The thing that will potentially hit *end users* is when the RPMs, DEBs or
> Windows Installers switch to SCRAM (because of clients with older drivers).

Agreed.  I'm not sure that our change to SCRAM as default would actually
make them change...  It might, but I'm not sure and it's really a bit of
a different discussion in any case because we need to provide info about
how to go about making the migration.

> Making the default change away from trust in the source distro will affect
> few people.

Agreed.

> Making the default change of password_encryption -> scram will affect a
> *lot* of people. That one needs to be more carefully coordinated.

We need to provide better documentation about how to get from md5 to
SCRAM, in my view.  I'm not sure where that should live, exactly.
I really wish we had put more effort into making the migration easy to
do over a period of time, and we might actually have to do that before
the packagers would be willing to make that change.

Thanks,

Stephen

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