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24.1.5.1. Multixacts And Wraparound
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* 24.1.5.1. Multixacts And Wraparound
@ 2021-06-17 18:31  PG Doc comments form <[email protected]>
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread

From: PG Doc comments form @ 2021-06-17 18:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: [email protected]; +Cc: [email protected]

The following documentation comment has been logged on the website:

Page: https://www.postgresql.org/docs/13/routine-vacuuming.html
Description:

In section "24.1.5.1. Multixacts And Wraparound" of
https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/routine-vacuuming.html we find the
following sentence towards the end of the section:

"...If the amount of used member storage space exceeds the amount 50% of the
addressable storage space."

I am having trouble parsing "...exceeds the amount 50% of the
addressable..." part.

It seems like the sentence is trying to say "...space exceeds 50% of the
addressable storage space" or maybe even "...space exceeds the amount of the
addressable storage space". Which is which?

Many thanks,
Eric Mutta.


^ permalink  raw  reply  [nested|flat] 7+ messages in thread

* Re: 24.1.5.1. Multixacts And Wraparound
@ 2021-06-18 06:51  Laurenz Albe <[email protected]>
  parent: PG Doc comments form <[email protected]>
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread

From: Laurenz Albe @ 2021-06-18 06:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: [email protected]; [email protected]

On Thu, 2021-06-17 at 18:31 +0000, PG Doc comments form wrote:
> In section "24.1.5.1. Multixacts And Wraparound" of
> https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/routine-vacuuming.html we find the
> following sentence towards the end of the section:
> 
> "...If the amount of used member storage space exceeds the amount 50% of the
> addressable storage space."
> 
> I am having trouble parsing "...exceeds the amount 50% of the
> addressable..." part.
> 
> It seems like the sentence is trying to say "...space exceeds 50% of the
> addressable storage space" or maybe even "...space exceeds the amount of the
> addressable storage space". Which is which?

+1

I think that the second "the amount" in the sentence should be removed.

Yours,
Laurenz Albe






^ permalink  raw  reply  [nested|flat] 7+ messages in thread

* Re: 24.1.5.1. Multixacts And Wraparound
@ 2021-06-22 02:50  Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>
  parent: Laurenz Albe <[email protected]>
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread

From: Bruce Momjian @ 2021-06-22 02:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Laurenz Albe <[email protected]>; +Cc: [email protected]; [email protected]

On Fri, Jun 18, 2021 at 08:51:00AM +0200, Laurenz Albe wrote:
> On Thu, 2021-06-17 at 18:31 +0000, PG Doc comments form wrote:
> > In section "24.1.5.1. Multixacts And Wraparound" of
> > https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/routine-vacuuming.html we find the
> > following sentence towards the end of the section:
> > 
> > "...If the amount of used member storage space exceeds the amount 50% of the
> > addressable storage space."
> > 
> > I am having trouble parsing "...exceeds the amount 50% of the
> > addressable..." part.
> > 
> > It seems like the sentence is trying to say "...space exceeds 50% of the
> > addressable storage space" or maybe even "...space exceeds the amount of the
> > addressable storage space". Which is which?
> 
> +1
> 
> I think that the second "the amount" in the sentence should be removed.

I think it is worse than that.  Here is the full paragraph:

     As a safety device, an aggressive vacuum scan will occur for any table
     whose multixact-age is greater than
     <xref linkend="guc-autovacuum-multixact-freeze-max-age"/>.  Aggressive
     vacuum scans will also occur progressively for all tables, starting with
     those that have the oldest multixact-age, if the amount of used member
     storage space exceeds the amount 50% of the addressable storage space.
     Both of these kinds of aggressive scans will occur even if autovacuum is
     nominally disabled.

What does "the amount of used member storage space exceeds 50% of the
addressable storage space" mean?

-- 
  Bruce Momjian  <[email protected]>        https://momjian.us
  EDB                                      https://enterprisedb.com

  If only the physical world exists, free will is an illusion.






^ permalink  raw  reply  [nested|flat] 7+ messages in thread

* Re: 24.1.5.1. Multixacts And Wraparound
@ 2021-06-22 06:32  Laurenz Albe <[email protected]>
  parent: Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread

From: Laurenz Albe @ 2021-06-22 06:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>; +Cc: [email protected]; [email protected]

On Mon, 2021-06-21 at 22:50 -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 18, 2021 at 08:51:00AM +0200, Laurenz Albe wrote:
> > On Thu, 2021-06-17 at 18:31 +0000, PG Doc comments form wrote:
> > > In section "24.1.5.1. Multixacts And Wraparound" of
> > > https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/routine-vacuuming.html we find the
> > > following sentence towards the end of the section:
> > > 
> > > "...If the amount of used member storage space exceeds the amount 50% of the
> > > addressable storage space."
> > > 
> > > I am having trouble parsing "...exceeds the amount 50% of the
> > > addressable..." part.
> > 
> > I think that the second "the amount" in the sentence should be removed.
> 
> I think it is worse than that.  Here is the full paragraph:
> 
>      As a safety device, an aggressive vacuum scan will occur for any table
>      whose multixact-age is greater than
>      <xref linkend="guc-autovacuum-multixact-freeze-max-age"/>.  Aggressive
>      vacuum scans will also occur progressively for all tables, starting with
>      those that have the oldest multixact-age, if the amount of used member
>      storage space exceeds the amount 50% of the addressable storage space.
>      Both of these kinds of aggressive scans will occur even if autovacuum is
>      nominally disabled.
> 
> What does "the amount of used member storage space exceeds 50% of the
> addressable storage space" mean?

You are right.  See MultiXactMemberFreezeThreshold for the whole story.

What about:

  As a safety device, an aggressive vacuum scan will occur for any table
  whose multixact-age (see <xref linkend="vacuum-for-multixact-wraparound"/>)
  is greater than <xref linkend="guc-autovacuum-multixact-freeze-max-age"/>.
  Also, if the storage occupied by multixacts exceeds 2GB, aggressive vacuum
  scans will occur more often for all tables, starting with those that have
  the oldest multixact-age.
  Both of these kinds ...

I hope I read the source right concerning the 2GB.

Yours,
Laurenz Albe






^ permalink  raw  reply  [nested|flat] 7+ messages in thread

* Re: 24.1.5.1. Multixacts And Wraparound
@ 2021-06-24 19:53  Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>
  parent: Laurenz Albe <[email protected]>
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread

From: Bruce Momjian @ 2021-06-24 19:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Laurenz Albe <[email protected]>; +Cc: [email protected]; [email protected]

On Tue, Jun 22, 2021 at 08:32:18AM +0200, Laurenz Albe wrote:
> > What does "the amount of used member storage space exceeds 50% of the
> > addressable storage space" mean?
> 
> You are right.  See MultiXactMemberFreezeThreshold for the whole story.
> 
> What about:
> 
>   As a safety device, an aggressive vacuum scan will occur for any table
>   whose multixact-age (see <xref linkend="vacuum-for-multixact-wraparound"/>)
>   is greater than <xref linkend="guc-autovacuum-multixact-freeze-max-age"/>.
>   Also, if the storage occupied by multixacts exceeds 2GB, aggressive vacuum
>   scans will occur more often for all tables, starting with those that have
>   the oldest multixact-age.
>   Both of these kinds ...

Yes, very good.   There were three problems with the original paragraph:

*  Had duplicate words
*  Had awkward phrasing
*  Used undefined terms

Your version fixes all three of those.  Patch attached.

> I hope I read the source right concerning the 2GB.

I can confirm the 2GB.  do_vacuum() calls
MultiXactMemberFreezeThreshold() to set its
effective_multixact_freeze_max_age.  MultiXactMemberFreezeThreshold()
compares the number of members to 2^32 (0xFFFFFFFF) / 2 or 2GB:

	#define MaxMultiXactOffset  ((MultiXactOffset) 0xFFFFFFFF)
	#define MULTIXACT_MEMBER_SAFE_THRESHOLD     (MaxMultiXactOffset / 2)
	
	/* If member space utilization is low, no special action is required. */
	if (members <= MULTIXACT_MEMBER_SAFE_THRESHOLD)
	    return autovacuum_multixact_freeze_max_age;

If that test fails, autovacuum_multixact_freeze_max_age is set much more
aggressively.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian  <[email protected]>        https://momjian.us
  EDB                                      https://enterprisedb.com

  If only the physical world exists, free will is an illusion.



Attachments:

  [text/x-diff] mxact.diff (1.4K, 2-mxact.diff)
  download | inline diff:
diff --git a/doc/src/sgml/maintenance.sgml b/doc/src/sgml/maintenance.sgml
index 4b535809b6..dd0eed193e 100644
--- a/doc/src/sgml/maintenance.sgml
+++ b/doc/src/sgml/maintenance.sgml
@@ -697,14 +697,14 @@ HINT:  Stop the postmaster and vacuum that database in single-user mode.
     </para>
 
     <para>
-     As a safety device, an aggressive vacuum scan will occur for any table
-     whose multixact-age is greater than
-     <xref linkend="guc-autovacuum-multixact-freeze-max-age"/>.  Aggressive
-     vacuum scans will also occur progressively for all tables, starting with
-     those that have the oldest multixact-age, if the amount of used member
-     storage space exceeds the amount 50% of the addressable storage space.
-     Both of these kinds of aggressive scans will occur even if autovacuum is
-     nominally disabled.
+     As a safety device, an aggressive vacuum scan will
+     occur for any table whose multixact-age (see <xref
+     linkend="vacuum-for-multixact-wraparound"/>) is greater than <xref
+     linkend="guc-autovacuum-multixact-freeze-max-age"/>.  Also, if the
+     storage occupied by multixacts exceeds 2GB, aggressive vacuum scans
+     will occur more often for all tables, starting with those that have
+     the oldest multixact-age.  Both of these kinds of aggressive scans
+     will occur even if autovacuum is nominally disabled.
     </para>
    </sect3>
   </sect2>


^ permalink  raw  reply  [nested|flat] 7+ messages in thread

* Re: 24.1.5.1. Multixacts And Wraparound
@ 2021-06-24 20:06  Alvaro Herrera <[email protected]>
  parent: Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread

From: Alvaro Herrera @ 2021-06-24 20:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>; +Cc: Laurenz Albe <[email protected]>; [email protected]; [email protected]

On 2021-Jun-24, Bruce Momjian wrote:

> +     As a safety device, an aggressive vacuum scan will
> +     occur for any table whose multixact-age (see <xref
> +     linkend="vacuum-for-multixact-wraparound"/>) is greater than <xref
> +     linkend="guc-autovacuum-multixact-freeze-max-age"/>.  Also, if the
> +     storage occupied by multixacts exceeds 2GB, aggressive vacuum scans
> +     will occur more often for all tables, starting with those that have
> +     the oldest multixact-age.  Both of these kinds of aggressive scans
> +     will occur even if autovacuum is nominally disabled.

This looks good, thanks.

I think "the space occupied by multixacts" is a bit ambiguous -- it is
talking about pg_multixact/members only, but you could interpret that it
talks about both that and pg_multixact/offsets.  I'm not sure we need to
be 100% precise about that, so perhaps what you have is sufficient.  But
if we do want to be precise, then maybe " ... if the storage occupied by
multixact members (<literal>pg_multixact/members/</literal>) exceeds ..."
covers it.

(At least, that's how I remember this.  I don't think things have
changed much since 53bb309d2d5a ...)

-- 
Álvaro Herrera       Valdivia, Chile





^ permalink  raw  reply  [nested|flat] 7+ messages in thread

* Re: 24.1.5.1. Multixacts And Wraparound
@ 2021-07-02 22:01  Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>
  parent: Alvaro Herrera <[email protected]>
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread

From: Bruce Momjian @ 2021-07-02 22:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Alvaro Herrera <[email protected]>; +Cc: Laurenz Albe <[email protected]>; [email protected]; [email protected]

On Thu, Jun 24, 2021 at 04:06:38PM -0400, Álvaro Herrera wrote:
> On 2021-Jun-24, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> 
> > +     As a safety device, an aggressive vacuum scan will
> > +     occur for any table whose multixact-age (see <xref
> > +     linkend="vacuum-for-multixact-wraparound"/>) is greater than <xref
> > +     linkend="guc-autovacuum-multixact-freeze-max-age"/>.  Also, if the
> > +     storage occupied by multixacts exceeds 2GB, aggressive vacuum scans
> > +     will occur more often for all tables, starting with those that have
> > +     the oldest multixact-age.  Both of these kinds of aggressive scans
> > +     will occur even if autovacuum is nominally disabled.
> 
> This looks good, thanks.
> 
> I think "the space occupied by multixacts" is a bit ambiguous -- it is
> talking about pg_multixact/members only, but you could interpret that it
> talks about both that and pg_multixact/offsets.  I'm not sure we need to
> be 100% precise about that, so perhaps what you have is sufficient.  But
> if we do want to be precise, then maybe " ... if the storage occupied by
> multixact members (<literal>pg_multixact/members/</literal>) exceeds ..."
> covers it.
> 
> (At least, that's how I remember this.  I don't think things have
> changed much since 53bb309d2d5a ...)

OK, I got "members" into the doc section and applied it to master and PG
14.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian  <[email protected]>        https://momjian.us
  EDB                                      https://enterprisedb.com

  If only the physical world exists, free will is an illusion.







^ permalink  raw  reply  [nested|flat] 7+ messages in thread


end of thread, other threads:[~2021-07-02 22:01 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 7+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2021-06-17 18:31 24.1.5.1. Multixacts And Wraparound PG Doc comments form <[email protected]>
2021-06-18 06:51 ` Laurenz Albe <[email protected]>
2021-06-22 02:50   ` Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>
2021-06-22 06:32     ` Laurenz Albe <[email protected]>
2021-06-24 19:53       ` Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>
2021-06-24 20:06         ` Alvaro Herrera <[email protected]>
2021-07-02 22:01           ` Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>

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