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From: Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us>
To: Robert Haas <robertmhaas@gmail.com>
Cc: Peter Eisentraut <peter.eisentraut@2ndquadrant.com>
Cc: Stephen Frost <sfrost@snowman.net>
Cc: Ants Aasma <ants.aasma@eesti.ee>
Cc: PostgreSQL-development <pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org>
Subject: Re: WIP: Data at rest encryption
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 17:12:01 -0400
Message-ID: <20170615211201.GC8443@momjian.us> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CA+TgmoaPbgzNytWPwD43s996eQkOwVATbhXCfhvQ8FkP8cG4JQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20170613185622.GO13873@momjian.us>
	<20170613192011.GS3151@tamriel.snowman.net>
	<a2fa2930-5334-c926-01ee-4a01c605b7a4@2ndquadrant.com>
	<20170613221104.GT3151@tamriel.snowman.net>
	<9cea5160-c64b-0b9e-d4b7-c57db2a696be@2ndquadrant.com>
	<20170614214119.GL1769@tamriel.snowman.net>
	<0b5611b8-af0f-152d-9c38-222b081c71ac@2ndquadrant.com>
	<CA+TgmoYrQvGkr-6j4fDxJ-SBjhiALzDZcukR2c9s0VeGbWoWaw@mail.gmail.com>
	<20170615202942.GA20904@momjian.us>
	<CA+TgmoaPbgzNytWPwD43s996eQkOwVATbhXCfhvQ8FkP8cG4JQ@mail.gmail.com>
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On Thu, Jun 15, 2017 at 05:04:17PM -0400, Robert Haas wrote:
> > Also, there is the sense that security requires
> > trust of the root user, while using Postgres doesn't require the root
> > user to also use Postgres.
> 
> I don't understand this.  It is certainly true that you're running
> binaries owned by root, the root user could Trojan the binaries and
> break any security you think you have.  But that problem is no better
> or worse for PostgreSQL than anything else.

I couldn't find a cleaner way to see it --- it is that database use
doesn't involve the root user using it, while database security requires
the root user to also be security-conscious.

> > One serious difference between in-database-encryption and SSH keys is
> > that the use of passwords for SSH is well understood and reasonable to
> > use, while I think we all admit that use of passwords for database
> > objects like SSL keys is murky.  Use of keys for OS-level encryption is
> > a little better handled, but not as clean as SSH keys.
> 
> Peter pointed out upthread that our handling of SSL passphrases leaves
> a lot to be desired, and that maybe we should fix that problem first;
> I agree.  But I don't think this is any kind of intrinsic limitation
> of PostgreSQL vs. encrypted filesystems vs. SSH; it's just a
> quality-of-implementation issue.

I think there are environmental issues that make password use on SSH
easier than the other cases --- it isn't just code quality.  However, it
would be good to research how SSH handles it to see if we can get any
ideas.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian  <bruce@momjian.us>        http://momjian.us
  EnterpriseDB                             http://enterprisedb.com

+ As you are, so once was I.  As I am, so you will be. +
+                      Ancient Roman grave inscription +


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  Cc: bruce@momjian.us, robertmhaas@gmail.com, peter.eisentraut@2ndquadrant.com, sfrost@snowman.net, ants.aasma@eesti.ee
  Subject: Re: WIP: Data at rest encryption
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