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* Scripts (was Re: [HACKERS] Re: [INTERFACES] Next release is 7.0(?))
@ 1999-10-11 20:57 Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
1999-10-11 22:24 ` Re: Scripts (was Re: [HACKERS] Re: [INTERFACES] Next release is 7.0(?)) Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Peter Eisentraut @ 1999-10-11 20:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>; +Cc: Thomas Lockhart <lockhart@alumni.caltech.edu>; Sergio A. Kessler <ser@perio.unlp.edu.ar>; PostgreSQL-development <pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org>; pgsql-interfaces
On Oct 11, Bruce Momjian mentioned:
> > > Yes, we have discussed this, and will add it to the TODO list.
> > > > can the commands createuser and destroyuser be renamed to
> > > > pg_createuser and pg_destroyuser (as pg_dump) adding soft links to
> > > > preserve backwards compatibility (declaring previous commands
> > > > deprecated) ?
> > > > the same can be done for createdb and destroydb ...
> >
> > I hope we don't have a consensus on this. Long commands with
> > underscores in them are certainly another sign of the coming
> > apocalypse ;)
>
> But if we keep symlinks to the existing names, is that OK?
I think Thomas' primary problem was the underscore. (?)
I was going to say that I can take of that, since I was going to adjust
the scripts to play well with the new psql anyway. (In particular, I just
terminally removed the -a option, since it has gone unused for a while and
might be a very popular option switch in the future. Switches are becoming
scarce these days.)
I can offer the following plan (from my bin dir):
cleardbdir --> (Remove. It's been a while.)
createdb --> pgcreatedb
createlang --> (In my excessively undereducated opinion, this should
be removed. createdb and createuser I can see but
this?)
createuser --> pgcreateuser
destroydb --> pgdestroydb
destroylang --> (see above)
destroyuser --> pgdestroyuser
ecpg
initdb --> pginitdb
initlocation --> pginitlocation
ipcclean --> pg_ipcclean
(An underscore here to make it more complicated to type :)
. . .
vacuumdb --> pgvacuumdb
Alternatively, there could also be shorter commands, now that the
association with the PostgreSQL installation is clearer:
pgcrdb
pgcruser
pgdestdb
pgdestuser
pgvacuum
This might remove the mnemonic association with the related SQL commands
(which some might find desirable). Some might also go for a set like this:
pguseradd
pguserdel
pgmkdb
pgrmdb
in association to *nix commands. (Some might find that a bad idea).
Furthermore I was thinking about a configure switch along the following
lines:
--enable-scripts=old|new|both|none
(defaults to new)
since a while back there was some talk about removing the scripts
altogether (which also died after Thomas protested, I think).
While we're at it, perhaps the scripts can also be moved around in the
source tree, e.g., to bin/scripts or (if there will really be only 4 or 5)
even into the psql subtree.
Well, unless someone vetos, I would take a vote here and see what I can
do.
-Peter
--
Peter Eisentraut Sernanders vaeg 10:115
peter_e@gmx.net 75262 Uppsala
http://yi.org/peter-e/ Sweden
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: Scripts (was Re: [HACKERS] Re: [INTERFACES] Next release is 7.0(?))
1999-10-11 20:57 Scripts (was Re: [HACKERS] Re: [INTERFACES] Next release is 7.0(?)) Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
@ 1999-10-11 22:24 ` Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
1999-10-11 22:59 ` Re: Scripts (was Re: [HACKERS] Re: [INTERFACES] Next release is 7.0(?)) Lamar Owen <lamar.owen@wgcr.org>
1999-10-12 03:12 ` Re: Scripts (was Re: [HACKERS] Re: [INTERFACES] Next release is 7.0(?)) Sergio A. Kessler <ser@perio.unlp.edu.ar>
1999-10-12 04:22 ` Re: Scripts (was Re: [HACKERS] Re: [INTERFACES] Next release is 7.0(?)) The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
0 siblings, 3 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Bruce Momjian @ 1999-10-11 22:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>; +Cc: Thomas Lockhart <lockhart@alumni.caltech.edu>; Sergio A. Kessler <ser@perio.unlp.edu.ar>; PostgreSQL-development <pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org>; pgsql-interfaces
> I think Thomas' primary problem was the underscore. (?)
OK.
>
> I was going to say that I can take of that, since I was going to adjust
> the scripts to play well with the new psql anyway. (In particular, I just
> terminally removed the -a option, since it has gone unused for a while and
> might be a very popular option switch in the future. Switches are becoming
> scarce these days.)
>
> I can offer the following plan (from my bin dir):
>
> cleardbdir --> (Remove. It's been a while.)
Good.
> createdb --> pgcreatedb
Good.
> createlang --> (In my excessively undereducated opinion, this should
> be removed. createdb and createuser I can see but
> this?)
Yes, remove. What is that doing there. Jan's plpgsql doesn't use it. :-)
> createuser --> pgcreateuser
> destroydb --> pgdestroydb
Can I recommend pgdropdb?
> destroylang --> (see above)
> destroyuser --> pgdestroyuser
pgdropuser?
> ecpg
> initdb --> pginitdb
> initlocation --> pginitlocation
> ipcclean --> pg_ipcclean
> (An underscore here to make it more complicated to type :)
> . . .
Not sure about that.
> vacuumdb --> pgvacuumdb
OK.
> Alternatively, there could also be shorter commands, now that the
> association with the PostgreSQL installation is clearer:
> pgcrdb
> pgcruser
> pgdestdb
> pgdestuser
> pgvacuum
Too cryptic for me.
> This might remove the mnemonic association with the related SQL commands
> (which some might find desirable). Some might also go for a set like this:
> pguseradd
> pguserdel
> pgmkdb
> pgrmdb
> in association to *nix commands. (Some might find that a bad idea).
Doesn't grab me.
>
> Furthermore I was thinking about a configure switch along the following
> lines:
>
> --enable-scripts=old|new|both|none
> (defaults to new)
Too complicated. Issue a warning if invoked with old args and remove
old link in 8.x. You can test basename $0 and test to see how you were
invoked.
> since a while back there was some talk about removing the scripts
> altogether (which also died after Thomas protested, I think).
I like the scripts too.
--
Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle
maillist@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: Scripts (was Re: [HACKERS] Re: [INTERFACES] Next release is 7.0(?))
1999-10-11 20:57 Scripts (was Re: [HACKERS] Re: [INTERFACES] Next release is 7.0(?)) Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
1999-10-11 22:24 ` Re: Scripts (was Re: [HACKERS] Re: [INTERFACES] Next release is 7.0(?)) Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
@ 1999-10-11 22:59 ` Lamar Owen <lamar.owen@wgcr.org>
1999-10-15 11:54 ` Re: Scripts (was Re: [HACKERS] Re: [INTERFACES] Next release is 7.0(?)) Jan Wieck <wieck@debis.com>
2 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Lamar Owen @ 1999-10-11 22:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>; +Cc: Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>; Thomas Lockhart <lockhart@alumni.caltech.edu>; Sergio A. Kessler <ser@perio.unlp.edu.ar>; PostgreSQL-development <pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org>; pgsql-interfaces
Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > createlang --> (In my excessively undereducated opinion, this should
> > be removed. createdb and createuser I can see but
> > this?)
>
> Yes, remove. What is that doing there. Jan's plpgsql doesn't use it. :-)
Used by regression test script. No reason the script can't inline the
createlang script's code, though.
Lamar Owen
WGCR Internet Radio
1 Peter 4:11
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: Scripts (was Re: [HACKERS] Re: [INTERFACES] Next release is 7.0(?))
1999-10-11 20:57 Scripts (was Re: [HACKERS] Re: [INTERFACES] Next release is 7.0(?)) Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
1999-10-11 22:24 ` Re: Scripts (was Re: [HACKERS] Re: [INTERFACES] Next release is 7.0(?)) Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
1999-10-11 22:59 ` Re: Scripts (was Re: [HACKERS] Re: [INTERFACES] Next release is 7.0(?)) Lamar Owen <lamar.owen@wgcr.org>
@ 1999-10-15 11:54 ` Jan Wieck <wieck@debis.com>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: wieck@debis.com @ 1999-10-15 11:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: lamar.owen@wgcr.org; +Cc: maillist@candle.pha.pa.us; peter_e@gmx.net; lockhart@alumni.caltech.edu; ser@perio.unlp.edu.ar; pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org; pgsql-interfaces
Lamar Owen wrote:
>
> Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > > createlang --> (In my excessively undereducated opinion, this should
> > > be removed. createdb and createuser I can see but
> > > this?)
> >
> > Yes, remove. What is that doing there. Jan's plpgsql doesn't use it. :-)
>
> Used by regression test script. No reason the script can't inline the
> createlang script's code, though.
That script was the result of some longer discussion about
"installing PL/pgSQL by default (initdb) or not" which
resulted from some problems with the location of the language
handler object.
Some people like to have one or the other language in
template1, so it will automatically be there after createdb.
Others like to install individual PL's per database.
What I see from your comments above is, that you don't use
procedural languages at all. But that's not a good reason for
making it harder for others to gain access to these
languages.
Jan
--
#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me. #
#========================================= wieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: Scripts (was Re: [HACKERS] Re: [INTERFACES] Next release is 7.0(?))
1999-10-11 20:57 Scripts (was Re: [HACKERS] Re: [INTERFACES] Next release is 7.0(?)) Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
1999-10-11 22:24 ` Re: Scripts (was Re: [HACKERS] Re: [INTERFACES] Next release is 7.0(?)) Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
@ 1999-10-12 03:12 ` Sergio A. Kessler <ser@perio.unlp.edu.ar>
2 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Sergio A. Kessler @ 1999-10-12 03:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>; +Cc: Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>; Thomas Lockhart <lockhart@alumni.caltech.edu>; PostgreSQL-development <pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org>; pgsql-interfaces
Bruce Momjian wrote:
>
> > I think Thomas' primary problem was the underscore. (?)
>
> OK.
hmmm, ok, not everyone can be totally happy ...
please, Thomas, let us use the underscore so there no need to
rename pg_dump and pg_dumpall
pg_dump -> pg_dump
pg_dumpall -> pg_dumpall
createdb -> pg_createdb
destroydb -> pg_dropdb
createuser -> pg_createuser
destroyuser -> pg_dropuser
and prepend a 'pg_' to the rest
I think it can't be more consistent that this...
Thomas ?, please ?
--
| Sergio A. Kessler http://sak.org.ar
-O_O- You can have it Soon, Cheap, and Working; choose *two*.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: Scripts (was Re: [HACKERS] Re: [INTERFACES] Next release is 7.0(?))
1999-10-11 20:57 Scripts (was Re: [HACKERS] Re: [INTERFACES] Next release is 7.0(?)) Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
1999-10-11 22:24 ` Re: Scripts (was Re: [HACKERS] Re: [INTERFACES] Next release is 7.0(?)) Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
@ 1999-10-12 04:22 ` The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
1999-10-12 09:12 ` Re: Scripts (was Re: [HACKERS] Re: [INTERFACES] Next release is Jan Wieck <wieck@debis.com>
2 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: The Hermit Hacker @ 1999-10-12 04:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>; +Cc: Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>; Thomas Lockhart <lockhart@alumni.caltech.edu>; Sergio A. Kessler <ser@perio.unlp.edu.ar>; PostgreSQL-development <pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org>; pgsql-interfaces
Note: I still don't like the scripts...they create lazy, uneducated DBAs,
of which I was one, since I didn't even *know* there were internal
commands that did more then the external ones did, for the longest time...
Personally, those scripts should jsut become:
try 'create user' from psql interface
*grump look*
On Mon, 11 Oct 1999, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > I think Thomas' primary problem was the underscore. (?)
>
> OK.
>
> >
> > I was going to say that I can take of that, since I was going to adjust
> > the scripts to play well with the new psql anyway. (In particular, I just
> > terminally removed the -a option, since it has gone unused for a while and
> > might be a very popular option switch in the future. Switches are becoming
> > scarce these days.)
> >
> > I can offer the following plan (from my bin dir):
> >
> > cleardbdir --> (Remove. It's been a while.)
>
> Good.
>
> > createdb --> pgcreatedb
>
> Good.
>
> > createlang --> (In my excessively undereducated opinion, this should
> > be removed. createdb and createuser I can see but
> > this?)
>
> Yes, remove. What is that doing there. Jan's plpgsql doesn't use it. :-)
>
> > createuser --> pgcreateuser
> > destroydb --> pgdestroydb
>
> Can I recommend pgdropdb?
>
> > destroylang --> (see above)
> > destroyuser --> pgdestroyuser
>
> pgdropuser?
>
> > ecpg
> > initdb --> pginitdb
> > initlocation --> pginitlocation
> > ipcclean --> pg_ipcclean
> > (An underscore here to make it more complicated to type :)
> > . . .
>
> Not sure about that.
>
> > vacuumdb --> pgvacuumdb
>
> OK.
>
> > Alternatively, there could also be shorter commands, now that the
> > association with the PostgreSQL installation is clearer:
> > pgcrdb
> > pgcruser
> > pgdestdb
> > pgdestuser
> > pgvacuum
>
> Too cryptic for me.
>
> > This might remove the mnemonic association with the related SQL commands
> > (which some might find desirable). Some might also go for a set like this:
> > pguseradd
> > pguserdel
> > pgmkdb
> > pgrmdb
> > in association to *nix commands. (Some might find that a bad idea).
>
> Doesn't grab me.
>
> >
> > Furthermore I was thinking about a configure switch along the following
> > lines:
> >
> > --enable-scripts=old|new|both|none
> > (defaults to new)
>
> Too complicated. Issue a warning if invoked with old args and remove
> old link in 8.x. You can test basename $0 and test to see how you were
> invoked.
>
>
> > since a while back there was some talk about removing the scripts
> > altogether (which also died after Thomas protested, I think).
>
> I like the scripts too.
>
> --
> Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle
> maillist@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000
> + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
> + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
>
> ************
>
Marc G. Fournier ICQ#7615664 IRC Nick: Scrappy
Systems Administrator @ hub.org
primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: Scripts (was Re: [HACKERS] Re: [INTERFACES] Next release is
1999-10-11 20:57 Scripts (was Re: [HACKERS] Re: [INTERFACES] Next release is 7.0(?)) Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
1999-10-11 22:24 ` Re: Scripts (was Re: [HACKERS] Re: [INTERFACES] Next release is 7.0(?)) Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
1999-10-12 04:22 ` Re: Scripts (was Re: [HACKERS] Re: [INTERFACES] Next release is 7.0(?)) The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
@ 1999-10-12 09:12 ` Jan Wieck <wieck@debis.com>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: wieck@debis.com @ 1999-10-12 09:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: scrappy@hub.org; +Cc: maillist@candle.pha.pa.us; peter_e@gmx.net; lockhart@alumni.caltech.edu; ser@perio.unlp.edu.ar; pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org; pgsql-interfaces
> > > in association to *nix commands. (Some might find that a bad idea).
Then it MUST be pgcreatuser!
Jan
--
#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me. #
#========================================= wieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 7+ messages in thread
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1999-10-11 20:57 Scripts (was Re: [HACKERS] Re: [INTERFACES] Next release is 7.0(?)) Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
1999-10-11 22:24 ` Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
1999-10-11 22:59 ` Lamar Owen <lamar.owen@wgcr.org>
1999-10-15 11:54 ` Jan Wieck <wieck@debis.com>
1999-10-12 03:12 ` Sergio A. Kessler <ser@perio.unlp.edu.ar>
1999-10-12 04:22 ` The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
1999-10-12 09:12 ` Re: Scripts (was Re: [HACKERS] Re: [INTERFACES] Next release is Jan Wieck <wieck@debis.com>
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