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* Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives?
@ 2008-12-02 09:22 Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-05 22:48 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Kevin Grittner <Kevin.Grittner@wicourts.gov>
2008-12-05 23:00 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>
0 siblings, 2 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: Mario Weilguni @ 2008-12-02 09:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pgsql-performance
Has anyone benchmarked this controller (PCIe/4x, 512 MB BBC)? We try to
use it with 8x SATA 1TB drives in RAID-5 mode under Linux, and measure
strange values. An individual drive is capable of delivering 91 MB/sec
sequential read performance, and we get values ~102MB/sec out of a
8-drive RAID5, seems to be ridiculous slow. Write performance seems to
be much better, ~300 MB /sec - seems ok to me.
I guess I must be doing something wrong, I cannot believe that a 500 €
controller is delivering such poor performance.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 33+ messages in thread
* Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives?
2008-12-02 09:22 Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
@ 2008-12-05 22:48 ` Kevin Grittner <Kevin.Grittner@wicourts.gov>
2008-12-05 23:30 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Alan Hodgson <ahodgson@simkin.ca>
2008-12-09 12:15 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
1 sibling, 2 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: Kevin Grittner @ 2008-12-05 22:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pgsql-performance; Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
>>> Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com> wrote:
> Has anyone benchmarked this controller (PCIe/4x, 512 MB BBC)? We try
to
> use it with 8x SATA 1TB drives in RAID-5 mode under Linux, and
measure
> strange values. An individual drive is capable of delivering 91
MB/sec
> sequential read performance, and we get values ~102MB/sec out of a
> 8-drive RAID5, seems to be ridiculous slow. Write performance seems
to
> be much better, ~300 MB /sec - seems ok to me.
What's your stripe size?
-Kevin
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 33+ messages in thread
* Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives?
2008-12-02 09:22 Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-05 22:48 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Kevin Grittner <Kevin.Grittner@wicourts.gov>
@ 2008-12-05 23:30 ` Alan Hodgson <ahodgson@simkin.ca>
2008-12-06 00:29 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Greg Smith <gsmith@gregsmith.com>
2008-12-09 12:17 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
1 sibling, 2 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: Alan Hodgson @ 2008-12-05 23:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pgsql-performance
> >>> Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com> wrote:
> > strange values. An individual drive is capable of delivering 91
> > MB/sec
>
> > sequential read performance, and we get values ~102MB/sec out of a
> > 8-drive RAID5, seems to be ridiculous slow.
What command are you using to test the reads?
Some recommendations to try:
1) /sbin/blockdev --setra 2048 device (where device is the partition or LVM
volume)
2) Use XFS, and make sure your stripe settings match the RAID.
Having said that, 102MB/sec sounds really low for any modern controller with
8 drives, regardless of tuning or filesystem choice.
--
Corporations will ingest natural resources and defecate garbage until all
resources are depleted, debt can no longer be repaid and our money becomes
worthless - Jay Hanson
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 33+ messages in thread
* Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives?
2008-12-02 09:22 Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-05 22:48 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Kevin Grittner <Kevin.Grittner@wicourts.gov>
2008-12-05 23:30 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Alan Hodgson <ahodgson@simkin.ca>
@ 2008-12-06 00:29 ` Greg Smith <gsmith@gregsmith.com>
2008-12-06 01:39 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>
1 sibling, 1 reply; 33+ messages in thread
From: Greg Smith @ 2008-12-06 00:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pgsql-performance
On Fri, 5 Dec 2008, Alan Hodgson wrote:
> 1) /sbin/blockdev --setra 2048 device (where device is the partition or
> LVM volume)
Normally, when I see write speed dramatically faster than write, it does
mean that something about the read-ahead is set wrong. While I don't have
one to check, it looks to me like the P400 does its own read-ahead though,
which may be more effective to tweak than what Linux does. I'd suggest
taking a look at the settings with HP's admin utility and see how it's set
for that and for allocation of RAM to the read cache. I've seen some
RAID5 configs that put too much caching on the write side by default to
compensate for the deficiencies of that RAID level, and you have to push
some of that back toward the read side to balance it out right.
> 2) Use XFS, and make sure your stripe settings match the RAID.
XFS has good performance, but I can't get over how many system failure
corruption reports I hear about it. In any case, there's no reason this
system shouldn't perform fine on ext3.
--
* Greg Smith gsmith@gregsmith.com http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 33+ messages in thread
* Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives?
2008-12-02 09:22 Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-05 22:48 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Kevin Grittner <Kevin.Grittner@wicourts.gov>
2008-12-05 23:30 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Alan Hodgson <ahodgson@simkin.ca>
2008-12-06 00:29 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Greg Smith <gsmith@gregsmith.com>
@ 2008-12-06 01:39 ` Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: Scott Marlowe @ 2008-12-06 01:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Greg Smith <gsmith@gregsmith.com>; +Cc: pgsql-performance
On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 5:29 PM, Greg Smith <gsmith@gregsmith.com> wrote:
> XFS has good performance, but I can't get over how many system failure
> corruption reports I hear about it. In any case, there's no reason this
> system shouldn't perform fine on ext3.
For simple testing you can take the file system out of the equation by
just using dd to / from the raw partition. I have a feeling this HP
RAID controller is just a low end piece o crap is the problem. I seem
to remember references to the P800 series controller being quite a bit
better than this one. But that was a while back.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 33+ messages in thread
* Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives?
2008-12-02 09:22 Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-05 22:48 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Kevin Grittner <Kevin.Grittner@wicourts.gov>
2008-12-05 23:30 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Alan Hodgson <ahodgson@simkin.ca>
@ 2008-12-09 12:17 ` Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-09 15:30 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>
1 sibling, 1 reply; 33+ messages in thread
From: Mario Weilguni @ 2008-12-09 12:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Alan Hodgson <ahodgson@simkin.ca>; +Cc: pgsql-performance
Alan Hodgson schrieb:
>>>>> Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>> strange values. An individual drive is capable of delivering 91
>>> MB/sec
>>>
>>> sequential read performance, and we get values ~102MB/sec out of a
>>> 8-drive RAID5, seems to be ridiculous slow.
>>>
>
>
> What command are you using to test the reads?
>
> Some recommendations to try:
>
> 1) /sbin/blockdev --setra 2048 device (where device is the partition or LVM
> volume)
>
> 2) Use XFS, and make sure your stripe settings match the RAID.
>
> Having said that, 102MB/sec sounds really low for any modern controller with
> 8 drives, regardless of tuning or filesystem choice.
>
>
First, thanks alot for this and all the other answers.
I measured the raw device performance:
dd if=/dev/cciss/c0d0 bs=64k count=100000 of=/dev/null
I get poor performance when all 8 drives are configured as one, large
RAID-5, and slightly poorer performance when configured as JBOD. In
production, we use XFS as FS, but I doubt this has anything to do with
FS tuning.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 33+ messages in thread
* Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives?
2008-12-02 09:22 Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-05 22:48 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Kevin Grittner <Kevin.Grittner@wicourts.gov>
2008-12-05 23:30 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Alan Hodgson <ahodgson@simkin.ca>
2008-12-09 12:17 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
@ 2008-12-09 15:30 ` Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>
2008-12-09 16:03 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Gabriele Turchi <gabriele.turchi@l39a.com>
2008-12-10 07:45 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
0 siblings, 2 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: Scott Marlowe @ 2008-12-09 15:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>; +Cc: Alan Hodgson <ahodgson@simkin.ca>; pgsql-performance
On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 5:17 AM, Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com> wrote:
> Alan Hodgson schrieb:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> strange values. An individual drive is capable of delivering 91
>>>> MB/sec
>>>> sequential read performance, and we get values ~102MB/sec out of a
>>>> 8-drive RAID5, seems to be ridiculous slow.
>>
>>
>> What command are you using to test the reads?
>>
>> Some recommendations to try:
>>
>> 1) /sbin/blockdev --setra 2048 device (where device is the partition or
>> LVM volume)
>>
>> 2) Use XFS, and make sure your stripe settings match the RAID.
>>
>> Having said that, 102MB/sec sounds really low for any modern controller
>> with 8 drives, regardless of tuning or filesystem choice.
>>
>>
>
> First, thanks alot for this and all the other answers.
>
> I measured the raw device performance:
> dd if=/dev/cciss/c0d0 bs=64k count=100000 of=/dev/null
>
> I get poor performance when all 8 drives are configured as one, large
> RAID-5, and slightly poorer performance when configured as JBOD. In
> production, we use XFS as FS, but I doubt this has anything to do with FS
> tuning.
Yeah, having just trawled the pgsql-performance archives, there are
plenty of instances of people having terrible performance from HP
smart array controllers before the P800. Is it possible for you to
trade up to a better RAID controller? Whichever salesman sold you the
P400 should take one for the team and make this right for you.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 33+ messages in thread
* Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives?
2008-12-02 09:22 Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-05 22:48 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Kevin Grittner <Kevin.Grittner@wicourts.gov>
2008-12-05 23:30 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Alan Hodgson <ahodgson@simkin.ca>
2008-12-09 12:17 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-09 15:30 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>
@ 2008-12-09 16:03 ` Gabriele Turchi <gabriele.turchi@l39a.com>
2008-12-09 16:25 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>
1 sibling, 1 reply; 33+ messages in thread
From: Gabriele Turchi @ 2008-12-09 16:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>; +Cc: Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>; Alan Hodgson <ahodgson@simkin.ca>; pgsql-performance
We reached a fairly good performance on a P400 controller (8 SATA 146GB
2,5" 10k rpm) with raid5 or raid6 Linux software raid: the writing
bandwidth reached about 140 MB/s sustained throughput (the hardware
raid5 gave a sustained 20 MB/s...). With a second, equal controller (16
disks) we reached (raid6 spanning all 16 disks) about 200 MB/s sustained.
The CPU load is negligible. Reading performance is about 20% better.
Best regards and my apologies for my bad English.
GT
P.S.: on a P800, 12 SATA 750GB 3,5" 7200 rpm, the hardware raid5 writing
performance was about 30 MB/s, software raid5 is between 60 and 80 MB/s.
Scott Marlowe ha scritto:
> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 5:17 AM, Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com> wrote:
>> Alan Hodgson schrieb:
>>>>>>> Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>> strange values. An individual drive is capable of delivering 91
>>>>> MB/sec
>>>>> sequential read performance, and we get values ~102MB/sec out of a
>>>>> 8-drive RAID5, seems to be ridiculous slow.
>>>
>>> What command are you using to test the reads?
>>>
>>> Some recommendations to try:
>>>
>>> 1) /sbin/blockdev --setra 2048 device (where device is the partition or
>>> LVM volume)
>>>
>>> 2) Use XFS, and make sure your stripe settings match the RAID.
>>>
>>> Having said that, 102MB/sec sounds really low for any modern controller
>>> with 8 drives, regardless of tuning or filesystem choice.
>>>
>>>
>> First, thanks alot for this and all the other answers.
>>
>> I measured the raw device performance:
>> dd if=/dev/cciss/c0d0 bs=64k count=100000 of=/dev/null
>>
>> I get poor performance when all 8 drives are configured as one, large
>> RAID-5, and slightly poorer performance when configured as JBOD. In
>> production, we use XFS as FS, but I doubt this has anything to do with FS
>> tuning.
>
> Yeah, having just trawled the pgsql-performance archives, there are
> plenty of instances of people having terrible performance from HP
> smart array controllers before the P800. Is it possible for you to
> trade up to a better RAID controller? Whichever salesman sold you the
> P400 should take one for the team and make this right for you.
>
Attachments:
smime.p7s (application/x-pkcs7-signature, 6.0K) download
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 33+ messages in thread
* Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives?
2008-12-02 09:22 Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-05 22:48 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Kevin Grittner <Kevin.Grittner@wicourts.gov>
2008-12-05 23:30 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Alan Hodgson <ahodgson@simkin.ca>
2008-12-09 12:17 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-09 15:30 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>
2008-12-09 16:03 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Gabriele Turchi <gabriele.turchi@l39a.com>
@ 2008-12-09 16:25 ` Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>
2008-12-09 16:43 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 33+ messages in thread
From: Scott Marlowe @ 2008-12-09 16:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Gabriele Turchi <gabriele.turchi@l39a.com>; +Cc: Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>; Alan Hodgson <ahodgson@simkin.ca>; pgsql-performance
On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 9:03 AM, Gabriele Turchi
<gabriele.turchi@l39a.com> wrote:
> We reached a fairly good performance on a P400 controller (8 SATA 146GB 2,5"
> 10k rpm) with raid5 or raid6 Linux software raid: the writing bandwidth
> reached about 140 MB/s sustained throughput (the hardware raid5 gave a
> sustained 20 MB/s...). With a second, equal controller (16 disks) we reached
> (raid6 spanning all 16 disks) about 200 MB/s sustained.
That's better than you were getting but still quite slow. I was
bothered that my 12x15k4 SAS RAID-10 array could only sustain about
350Megs/second sequential read, thinking that each drive should be
able to approach 80 or so megs/second and I was only getting about
60...
This sounds more and more like HP is trying to undercompete along with
Dell in the RAID controller market or at least the raid controller
driver market.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 33+ messages in thread
* Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives?
2008-12-02 09:22 Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-05 22:48 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Kevin Grittner <Kevin.Grittner@wicourts.gov>
2008-12-05 23:30 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Alan Hodgson <ahodgson@simkin.ca>
2008-12-09 12:17 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-09 15:30 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>
2008-12-09 16:03 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Gabriele Turchi <gabriele.turchi@l39a.com>
2008-12-09 16:25 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>
@ 2008-12-09 16:43 ` Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: Joshua D. Drake @ 2008-12-09 16:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>; +Cc: Gabriele Turchi <gabriele.turchi@l39a.com>; Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>; Alan Hodgson <ahodgson@simkin.ca>; pgsql-performance
On Tue, 2008-12-09 at 09:25 -0700, Scott Marlowe wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 9:03 AM, Gabriele Turchi
> <gabriele.turchi@l39a.com> wrote:
> > We reached a fairly good performance on a P400 controller (8 SATA 146GB 2,5"
> > 10k rpm) with raid5 or raid6 Linux software raid: the writing bandwidth
> > reached about 140 MB/s sustained throughput (the hardware raid5 gave a
> > sustained 20 MB/s...). With a second, equal controller (16 disks) we reached
> > (raid6 spanning all 16 disks) about 200 MB/s sustained.
>
> That's better than you were getting but still quite slow. I was
> bothered that my 12x15k4 SAS RAID-10 array could only sustain about
> 350Megs/second sequential read, thinking that each drive should be
> able to approach 80 or so megs/second and I was only getting about
> 60...
>
> This sounds more and more like HP is trying to undercompete along with
> Dell in the RAID controller market or at least the raid controller
> driver market.
It is certainly possible. The 400 is the higher end of the lower end
with HP... 200, 400, 600, 800 (800 is a nice controller).
Joshua D. Drake
>
--
PostgreSQL
Consulting, Development, Support, Training
503-667-4564 - http://www.commandprompt.com/
The PostgreSQL Company, serving since 1997
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 33+ messages in thread
* Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives?
2008-12-02 09:22 Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-05 22:48 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Kevin Grittner <Kevin.Grittner@wicourts.gov>
2008-12-05 23:30 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Alan Hodgson <ahodgson@simkin.ca>
2008-12-09 12:17 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-09 15:30 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>
@ 2008-12-10 07:45 ` Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-10 07:58 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Scott Carey <scott@richrelevance.com>
2008-12-10 14:17 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>
1 sibling, 2 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: Mario Weilguni @ 2008-12-10 07:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>; +Cc: Alan Hodgson <ahodgson@simkin.ca>; pgsql-performance
Scott Marlowe schrieb:
> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 5:17 AM, Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com> wrote:
>
>> Alan Hodgson schrieb:
>>
>>>>>>> Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> strange values. An individual drive is capable of delivering 91
>>>>> MB/sec
>>>>> sequential read performance, and we get values ~102MB/sec out of a
>>>>> 8-drive RAID5, seems to be ridiculous slow.
>>>>>
>>> What command are you using to test the reads?
>>>
>>> Some recommendations to try:
>>>
>>> 1) /sbin/blockdev --setra 2048 device (where device is the partition or
>>> LVM volume)
>>>
>>> 2) Use XFS, and make sure your stripe settings match the RAID.
>>>
>>> Having said that, 102MB/sec sounds really low for any modern controller
>>> with 8 drives, regardless of tuning or filesystem choice.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> First, thanks alot for this and all the other answers.
>>
>> I measured the raw device performance:
>> dd if=/dev/cciss/c0d0 bs=64k count=100000 of=/dev/null
>>
>> I get poor performance when all 8 drives are configured as one, large
>> RAID-5, and slightly poorer performance when configured as JBOD. In
>> production, we use XFS as FS, but I doubt this has anything to do with FS
>> tuning.
>>
>
> Yeah, having just trawled the pgsql-performance archives, there are
> plenty of instances of people having terrible performance from HP
> smart array controllers before the P800. Is it possible for you to
> trade up to a better RAID controller? Whichever salesman sold you the
> P400 should take one for the team and make this right for you.
>
>
A customer of us uses the P400 on a different machine, 8 SAS drives
(Raid 5 as well), and the performance is very, very good. So we thought
it's a good choice. Maybe the SATA drives are the root of this problem?
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 33+ messages in thread
* Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives?
2008-12-02 09:22 Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-05 22:48 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Kevin Grittner <Kevin.Grittner@wicourts.gov>
2008-12-05 23:30 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Alan Hodgson <ahodgson@simkin.ca>
2008-12-09 12:17 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-09 15:30 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>
2008-12-10 07:45 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
@ 2008-12-10 07:58 ` Scott Carey <scott@richrelevance.com>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: Scott Carey @ 2008-12-10 07:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>; Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>; +Cc: Alan Hodgson <ahodgson@simkin.ca>; pgsql-performance
It could be the drives, it could be a particular interaction between them and the drivers or firmware.
Do you know if NCQ is activated for them?
Can you test a single drive JBOD through the array to the same drive through something else, perhaps the motherboard's SATA port?
You may also have better luck with software raid-0 on top of 2 4 disk raid 5's or raid 10s. But not if a single disk JBOD still performs well under par. You may need new drivers for the card, or firmware for the drive and or card. Or, the card may simply be incompatible with those drives. I've seen several hard drive - raid card incompatibilities before.
On 12/9/08 11:45 PM, "Mario Weilguni" <mweilguni@sime.com> wrote:
Scott Marlowe schrieb:
> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 5:17 AM, Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com> wrote:
>
>> Alan Hodgson schrieb:
>>
>>>>>>> Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> strange values. An individual drive is capable of delivering 91
>>>>> MB/sec
>>>>> sequential read performance, and we get values ~102MB/sec out of a
>>>>> 8-drive RAID5, seems to be ridiculous slow.
>>>>>
>>> What command are you using to test the reads?
>>>
>>> Some recommendations to try:
>>>
>>> 1) /sbin/blockdev --setra 2048 device (where device is the partition or
>>> LVM volume)
>>>
>>> 2) Use XFS, and make sure your stripe settings match the RAID.
>>>
>>> Having said that, 102MB/sec sounds really low for any modern controller
>>> with 8 drives, regardless of tuning or filesystem choice.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> First, thanks alot for this and all the other answers.
>>
>> I measured the raw device performance:
>> dd if=/dev/cciss/c0d0 bs=64k count=100000 of=/dev/null
>>
>> I get poor performance when all 8 drives are configured as one, large
>> RAID-5, and slightly poorer performance when configured as JBOD. In
>> production, we use XFS as FS, but I doubt this has anything to do with FS
>> tuning.
>>
>
> Yeah, having just trawled the pgsql-performance archives, there are
> plenty of instances of people having terrible performance from HP
> smart array controllers before the P800. Is it possible for you to
> trade up to a better RAID controller? Whichever salesman sold you the
> P400 should take one for the team and make this right for you.
>
>
A customer of us uses the P400 on a different machine, 8 SAS drives
(Raid 5 as well), and the performance is very, very good. So we thought
it's a good choice. Maybe the SATA drives are the root of this problem?
--
Sent via pgsql-performance mailing list (pgsql-performance@postgresql.org)
To make changes to your subscription:
http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-performance
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 33+ messages in thread
* Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives?
2008-12-02 09:22 Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-05 22:48 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Kevin Grittner <Kevin.Grittner@wicourts.gov>
2008-12-05 23:30 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Alan Hodgson <ahodgson@simkin.ca>
2008-12-09 12:17 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-09 15:30 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>
2008-12-10 07:45 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
@ 2008-12-10 14:17 ` Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>
2008-12-10 14:30 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
1 sibling, 1 reply; 33+ messages in thread
From: Scott Marlowe @ 2008-12-10 14:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>; +Cc: Alan Hodgson <ahodgson@simkin.ca>; pgsql-performance
On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 12:45 AM, Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com> wrote:
>
> A customer of us uses the P400 on a different machine, 8 SAS drives (Raid 5
> as well), and the performance is very, very good. So we thought it's a good
> choice. Maybe the SATA drives are the root of this problem?
What tests have you or the customer done to confirm that performance
is very very good? A lot of times the system is not as fast as the
customer thinks, it's just faster than it was before and they're
happy. Also, there could be problems in the driver or firmware on
your P400 versus the customer one. I'd look for those differences as
well. I doubt SATA versus SAS is the problem, but who knows...
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 33+ messages in thread
* Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives?
2008-12-02 09:22 Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-05 22:48 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Kevin Grittner <Kevin.Grittner@wicourts.gov>
2008-12-05 23:30 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Alan Hodgson <ahodgson@simkin.ca>
2008-12-09 12:17 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-09 15:30 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>
2008-12-10 07:45 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-10 14:17 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>
@ 2008-12-10 14:30 ` Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: Mario Weilguni @ 2008-12-10 14:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>; +Cc: Alan Hodgson <ahodgson@simkin.ca>; pgsql-performance
Scott Marlowe schrieb:
> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 12:45 AM, Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com> wrote:
>
>> A customer of us uses the P400 on a different machine, 8 SAS drives (Raid 5
>> as well), and the performance is very, very good. So we thought it's a good
>> choice. Maybe the SATA drives are the root of this problem?
>>
>
> What tests have you or the customer done to confirm that performance
> is very very good? A lot of times the system is not as fast as the
> customer thinks, it's just faster than it was before and they're
> happy. Also, there could be problems in the driver or firmware on
> your P400 versus the customer one. I'd look for those differences as
> well. I doubt SATA versus SAS is the problem, but who knows...
>
>
Well, I cannot take the box offline to make usefull tests like tiobench
or bonnie, but even with the current service running I get from a simple
dd between 270 and 340 MB/sec sustained read over 30% of the disk.
It also performed extremly good when I put the box into production,
pg_bench values were impressing, but I do not have them at hand.
However, currently we are seriously considering dropping RAID5 in favor
of RAID10, we will test this week if this performs better.
Regards
Mario
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 33+ messages in thread
* Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives?
2008-12-02 09:22 Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-05 22:48 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Kevin Grittner <Kevin.Grittner@wicourts.gov>
@ 2008-12-09 12:15 ` Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: Mario Weilguni @ 2008-12-09 12:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Kevin Grittner <Kevin.Grittner@wicourts.gov>; +Cc: pgsql-performance
Kevin Grittner schrieb:
>>>> Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com> wrote:
>>>>
>> Has anyone benchmarked this controller (PCIe/4x, 512 MB BBC)? We try
>>
> to
>
>> use it with 8x SATA 1TB drives in RAID-5 mode under Linux, and
>>
> measure
>
>> strange values. An individual drive is capable of delivering 91
>>
> MB/sec
>
>> sequential read performance, and we get values ~102MB/sec out of a
>> 8-drive RAID5, seems to be ridiculous slow. Write performance seems
>>
> to
>
>> be much better, ~300 MB /sec - seems ok to me.
>>
>
> What's your stripe size?
>
> -Kevin
>
We used the default settings, it's 64k. Might a bigger value help here?
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 33+ messages in thread
* Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives?
2008-12-02 09:22 Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
@ 2008-12-05 23:00 ` Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>
2008-12-09 12:10 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
1 sibling, 1 reply; 33+ messages in thread
From: Scott Marlowe @ 2008-12-05 23:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>; +Cc: pgsql-performance
On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 2:22 AM, Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com> wrote:
> Has anyone benchmarked this controller (PCIe/4x, 512 MB BBC)? We try to use
> it with 8x SATA 1TB drives in RAID-5 mode under Linux, and measure strange
> values. An individual drive is capable of delivering 91 MB/sec sequential
> read performance, and we get values ~102MB/sec out of a 8-drive RAID5, seems
> to be ridiculous slow. Write performance seems to be much better, ~300 MB
> /sec - seems ok to me.
>
> I guess I must be doing something wrong, I cannot believe that a 500 €
> controller is delivering such poor performance.
A few suggestions... Try to find the latest driver for your card, try
using the card as nothing but a caching controller and run your RAID
on software in linux (or whatever IS you're on). Test a 2 drive
RAID-0 to see what kind of performance increase you get. If you can't
dd a big file off of a RAID-0 at about 2x the rate of a single drive
then something IS wrong with it. Try RAID 10. Try RAID-1 sets on the
controller and RAID 0 over that in software.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 33+ messages in thread
* Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives?
2008-12-02 09:22 Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-05 23:00 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>
@ 2008-12-09 12:10 ` Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-09 15:58 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 33+ messages in thread
From: Mario Weilguni @ 2008-12-09 12:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>; +Cc: pgsql-performance
Scott Marlowe schrieb:
> On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 2:22 AM, Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com> wrote:
>
>> Has anyone benchmarked this controller (PCIe/4x, 512 MB BBC)? We try to use
>> it with 8x SATA 1TB drives in RAID-5 mode under Linux, and measure strange
>> values. An individual drive is capable of delivering 91 MB/sec sequential
>> read performance, and we get values ~102MB/sec out of a 8-drive RAID5, seems
>> to be ridiculous slow. Write performance seems to be much better, ~300 MB
>> /sec - seems ok to me.
>>
>> I guess I must be doing something wrong, I cannot believe that a 500 €
>> controller is delivering such poor performance.
>>
>
> A few suggestions... Try to find the latest driver for your card, try
> using the card as nothing but a caching controller and run your RAID
> on software in linux (or whatever IS you're on). Test a 2 drive
> RAID-0 to see what kind of performance increase you get. If you can't
> dd a big file off of a RAID-0 at about 2x the rate of a single drive
> then something IS wrong with it. Try RAID 10. Try RAID-1 sets on the
> controller and RAID 0 over that in software.
>
>
I've already tried Softraid with individual drives, performs much
better. However, it's no option to use softraid, so I'm stuck. The card
has the latest firmware installed, and there are no drivers needed,
they're already included in the linux kernel.
I still think we must be doing something wrong here, I googled the
controller and Linux, and did not find anything indicating a problem.
The HP SmartArray series is quite common, so a lot of users would have
the same problem.
Thanks!
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 33+ messages in thread
* Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives?
2008-12-02 09:22 Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-05 23:00 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>
2008-12-09 12:10 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
@ 2008-12-09 15:58 ` Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
2008-12-09 16:17 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Aidan Van Dyk <aidan@highrise.ca>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 33+ messages in thread
From: Joshua D. Drake @ 2008-12-09 15:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>; +Cc: Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>; pgsql-performance
On Tue, 2008-12-09 at 13:10 +0100, Mario Weilguni wrote:
> Scott Marlowe schrieb:
> > On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 2:22 AM, Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com> wrote:
> I still think we must be doing something wrong here, I googled the
> controller and Linux, and did not find anything indicating a problem.
> The HP SmartArray series is quite common, so a lot of users would have
> the same problem.
Yes the SmartArray series is quite common and actually know to perform
reasonably well, in RAID 10. You still appear to be trying RAID 5.
Joshua D. Drake
>
> Thanks!
>
--
PostgreSQL
Consulting, Development, Support, Training
503-667-4564 - http://www.commandprompt.com/
The PostgreSQL Company, serving since 1997
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 33+ messages in thread
* Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives?
2008-12-02 09:22 Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-05 23:00 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>
2008-12-09 12:10 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-09 15:58 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
@ 2008-12-09 16:17 ` Aidan Van Dyk <aidan@highrise.ca>
2008-12-09 16:27 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
2008-12-10 12:29 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
0 siblings, 2 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: Aidan Van Dyk @ 2008-12-09 16:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>; +Cc: Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>; Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>; pgsql-performance
* Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com> [081209 11:01]:
> Yes the SmartArray series is quite common and actually know to perform
> reasonably well, in RAID 10. You still appear to be trying RAID 5.
*boggle*
Are people *still* using raid5?
/me gives up!
--
Aidan Van Dyk Create like a god,
aidan@highrise.ca command like a king,
http://www.highrise.ca/ work like a slave.
Attachments:
signature.asc (application/pgp-signature, 188B) download
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 33+ messages in thread
* Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives?
2008-12-02 09:22 Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-05 23:00 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>
2008-12-09 12:10 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-09 15:58 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
2008-12-09 16:17 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Aidan Van Dyk <aidan@highrise.ca>
@ 2008-12-09 16:27 ` Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
2008-12-09 16:35 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Aidan Van Dyk <aidan@highrise.ca>
2008-12-09 16:43 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
1 sibling, 2 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: Peter Eisentraut @ 2008-12-09 16:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Aidan Van Dyk <aidan@highrise.ca>; +Cc: Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>; Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>; Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>; pgsql-performance
Aidan Van Dyk wrote:
> * Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com> [081209 11:01]:
>
>> Yes the SmartArray series is quite common and actually know to perform
>> reasonably well, in RAID 10. You still appear to be trying RAID 5.
>
> *boggle*
>
> Are people *still* using raid5?
>
> /me gives up!
What do you suggest when there is not enough room for a RAID 10?
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 33+ messages in thread
* Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives?
2008-12-02 09:22 Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-05 23:00 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>
2008-12-09 12:10 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-09 15:58 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
2008-12-09 16:17 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Aidan Van Dyk <aidan@highrise.ca>
2008-12-09 16:27 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
@ 2008-12-09 16:35 ` Aidan Van Dyk <aidan@highrise.ca>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: Aidan Van Dyk @ 2008-12-09 16:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>; +Cc: Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>; Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>; Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>; pgsql-performance
* Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net> [081209 11:28]:
> What do you suggest when there is not enough room for a RAID 10?
More disks ;-)
But if you've given up on performance and reliability in favour of
cheaper storage, I guess raid5 is ok. But then I'm not sure what the
point of asking about it's poor performance is...
a.
--
Aidan Van Dyk Create like a god,
aidan@highrise.ca command like a king,
http://www.highrise.ca/ work like a slave.
Attachments:
signature.asc (application/pgp-signature, 188B) download
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 33+ messages in thread
* Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives?
2008-12-02 09:22 Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-05 23:00 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>
2008-12-09 12:10 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-09 15:58 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
2008-12-09 16:17 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Aidan Van Dyk <aidan@highrise.ca>
2008-12-09 16:27 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
@ 2008-12-09 16:43 ` Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: Joshua D. Drake @ 2008-12-09 16:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>; +Cc: Aidan Van Dyk <aidan@highrise.ca>; Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>; Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>; pgsql-performance
On Tue, 2008-12-09 at 18:27 +0200, Peter Eisentraut wrote:
> Aidan Van Dyk wrote:
> > * Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com> [081209 11:01]:
> >
> >> Yes the SmartArray series is quite common and actually know to perform
> >> reasonably well, in RAID 10. You still appear to be trying RAID 5.
> >
> > *boggle*
> >
> > Are people *still* using raid5?
> >
> > /me gives up!
>
> What do you suggest when there is not enough room for a RAID 10?
RAID 1.
Joshua D. Drake
>
--
PostgreSQL
Consulting, Development, Support, Training
503-667-4564 - http://www.commandprompt.com/
The PostgreSQL Company, serving since 1997
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 33+ messages in thread
* Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives?
2008-12-02 09:22 Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-05 23:00 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>
2008-12-09 12:10 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-09 15:58 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
2008-12-09 16:17 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Aidan Van Dyk <aidan@highrise.ca>
@ 2008-12-10 12:29 ` Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-10 13:34 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>
2008-12-10 15:21 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Gregory Williamson <Gregory.Williamson@digitalglobe.com>
2008-12-10 15:52 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Aidan Van Dyk <aidan@highrise.ca>
1 sibling, 3 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: Mario Weilguni @ 2008-12-10 12:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Aidan Van Dyk <aidan@highrise.ca>; +Cc: Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>; Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>; pgsql-performance
Aidan Van Dyk schrieb:
> * Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com> [081209 11:01]:
>
>
>> Yes the SmartArray series is quite common and actually know to perform
>> reasonably well, in RAID 10. You still appear to be trying RAID 5.
>>
>
> *boggle*
>
> Are people *still* using raid5?
>
> /me gives up!
>
>
Why not? I know it's not performing as good as RAID-10, but it does not
waste 50% diskspace. RAID-6 is no option, because the performance is
even worse. And, on another system with RAID-5 + spare and SAS drives,
the same controller is working very well.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 33+ messages in thread
* Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives?
2008-12-02 09:22 Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-05 23:00 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>
2008-12-09 12:10 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-09 15:58 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
2008-12-09 16:17 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Aidan Van Dyk <aidan@highrise.ca>
2008-12-10 12:29 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
@ 2008-12-10 13:34 ` Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>
2 siblings, 0 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: Scott Marlowe @ 2008-12-10 13:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>; +Cc: Aidan Van Dyk <aidan@highrise.ca>; Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>; pgsql-performance
On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 5:29 AM, Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com> wrote:
> Aidan Van Dyk schrieb:
>>
>> * Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com> [081209 11:01]:
>>
>>>
>>> Yes the SmartArray series is quite common and actually know to perform
>>> reasonably well, in RAID 10. You still appear to be trying RAID 5.
>>>
>>
>> *boggle*
>> Are people *still* using raid5?
>>
>> /me gives up!
>>
>>
>
> Why not? I know it's not performing as good as RAID-10, but it does not
> waste 50% diskspace. RAID-6 is no option, because the performance is even
> worse. And, on another system with RAID-5 + spare and SAS drives, the same
> controller is working very well.
I wouldn't refer to it as "waste". It's a tradeoff. With RAID-10 you
get good performance at a cost of having 1/2 the storage capacity of
your drives combined. RAID-5 says you're more worried about your
budget than performance, and sometimes that's the case. The
production servers where I work run a 25G database on a 12 disk
RAID-10. The fact that we get less than a terabyte from 12 147G scsi
disks is no great loss to us, we're interested in having a disk array
that can handle a few 100 transactions per second even if a disk dies.
Also, RAID-6 is faster, IF one of your disks has died (and you're on a
good RAID controller). RAID-5 degraded performance is abysmal even on
good controllers. RAID-10 with a lost disk is about the same as
RAID-10 with all its disks in terms of performance. If you're running
a production 24/7 database server, you can't afford to lose 80%+ of
your throughput when a single drive fails.
But this has all been covered before (many times) both on this list
and over the internet. RAID-5 is useful for large data stores that
can afford downtime. And there are plenty of apps like that. If your
app isn't like that, i.e. needs to be up and performing well 24/7, or
close to it, then RAID5 is a tragic mistake to make.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 33+ messages in thread
* Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives?
2008-12-02 09:22 Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-05 23:00 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>
2008-12-09 12:10 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-09 15:58 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
2008-12-09 16:17 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Aidan Van Dyk <aidan@highrise.ca>
2008-12-10 12:29 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
@ 2008-12-10 15:21 ` Gregory Williamson <Gregory.Williamson@digitalglobe.com>
2 siblings, 0 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: Gregory Williamson @ 2008-12-10 15:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>; Aidan Van Dyk <aidan@highrise.ca>; +Cc: Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>; Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>; pgsql-performance
Me, I'd *never) allow RAID-5 for data I cared abut.
Among other references, see <http://www.miracleas.com/BAARF/RAID5_versus_RAID10.txt;
(sorry for top-posting -- challenged reader and no other content to add)
Greg Williamson
Senior DBA
DigitalGlobe
Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information and must be protected in accordance with those provisions. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.
(My corporate masters made me say this.)
-----Original Message-----
From: pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org on behalf of Mario Weilguni
Sent: Wed 12/10/2008 4:29 AM
To: Aidan Van Dyk
Cc: Joshua D. Drake; Scott Marlowe; pgsql-performance@postgresql.org
Subject: Re: [PERFORM] Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives?
Aidan Van Dyk schrieb:
> * Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com> [081209 11:01]:
>
>
>> Yes the SmartArray series is quite common and actually know to perform
>> reasonably well, in RAID 10. You still appear to be trying RAID 5.
>>
>
> *boggle*
>
> Are people *still* using raid5?
>
> /me gives up!
>
>
Why not? I know it's not performing as good as RAID-10, but it does not
waste 50% diskspace. RAID-6 is no option, because the performance is
even worse. And, on another system with RAID-5 + spare and SAS drives,
the same controller is working very well.
--
Sent via pgsql-performance mailing list (pgsql-performance@postgresql.org)
To make changes to your subscription:
http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-performance
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 33+ messages in thread
* Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives?
2008-12-02 09:22 Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-05 23:00 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>
2008-12-09 12:10 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-09 15:58 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
2008-12-09 16:17 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Aidan Van Dyk <aidan@highrise.ca>
2008-12-10 12:29 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
@ 2008-12-10 15:52 ` Aidan Van Dyk <aidan@highrise.ca>
2008-12-10 16:05 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2 siblings, 1 reply; 33+ messages in thread
From: Aidan Van Dyk @ 2008-12-10 15:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>; +Cc: Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>; Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>; pgsql-performance
* Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com> [081210 07:31]:
> Why not? I know it's not performing as good as RAID-10, but it does not
> waste 50% diskspace. RAID-6 is no option, because the performance is
> even worse. And, on another system with RAID-5 + spare and SAS drives,
> the same controller is working very well.
Like Scott said, it's all about trade-offs.
With raid5, you get abysmal write performance, "make me not sleep at
night" inconsistent parity issues, and a degraded mode that will a
nightmare ...
... and as a trade-off you save a little money, and get good "read only"
performance ...
... as long as you don't ever have a disk or system crash ...
... or can afford to rebuild if you do ...
... etc ...
--
Aidan Van Dyk Create like a god,
aidan@highrise.ca command like a king,
http://www.highrise.ca/ work like a slave.
Attachments:
signature.asc (application/pgp-signature, 188B) download
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 33+ messages in thread
* Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives?
2008-12-02 09:22 Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-05 23:00 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>
2008-12-09 12:10 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-09 15:58 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
2008-12-09 16:17 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Aidan Van Dyk <aidan@highrise.ca>
2008-12-10 12:29 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-10 15:52 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Aidan Van Dyk <aidan@highrise.ca>
@ 2008-12-10 16:05 ` Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-10 16:17 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 33+ messages in thread
From: Mario Weilguni @ 2008-12-10 16:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Aidan Van Dyk <aidan@highrise.ca>; +Cc: Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>; Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>; pgsql-performance
Aidan Van Dyk schrieb:
> * Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com> [081210 07:31]:
>
>
>> Why not? I know it's not performing as good as RAID-10, but it does not
>> waste 50% diskspace. RAID-6 is no option, because the performance is
>> even worse. And, on another system with RAID-5 + spare and SAS drives,
>> the same controller is working very well.
>>
>
> Like Scott said, it's all about trade-offs.
>
> With raid5, you get abysmal write performance, "make me not sleep at
> night" inconsistent parity issues, and a degraded mode that will a
> nightmare ...
>
> ... and as a trade-off you save a little money, and get good "read only"
> performance ...
>
> ... as long as you don't ever have a disk or system crash ...
>
> ... or can afford to rebuild if you do ...
>
> ... etc ...
>
In fact, for this system we're currently going to RAID10, I'm convinced
now. With other systems we have, RAID5 is a safe option for one reason,
the machines are clusters, so we have (sort of) RAID50 here:
Machine A/RAID5 <-- DRBD --> Machine B/RAID5
Seems reliable enough for me. But in this case, the machine will be
standalone, and so RAID5 might really not be the best choice.
However, I'm pretty sure we'll have the same problems with RAID10, the
problem seems to have to do with P400 and/or SATA drives.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 33+ messages in thread
* Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives?
2008-12-02 09:22 Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-05 23:00 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>
2008-12-09 12:10 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-09 15:58 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
2008-12-09 16:17 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Aidan Van Dyk <aidan@highrise.ca>
2008-12-10 12:29 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-10 15:52 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Aidan Van Dyk <aidan@highrise.ca>
2008-12-10 16:05 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
@ 2008-12-10 16:17 ` Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>
2008-12-10 18:08 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Matthew Wakeling <matthew@flymine.org>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 33+ messages in thread
From: Scott Marlowe @ 2008-12-10 16:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>; +Cc: Aidan Van Dyk <aidan@highrise.ca>; Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>; pgsql-performance
On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 9:05 AM, Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com> wrote:
> In fact, for this system we're currently going to RAID10, I'm convinced now.
> With other systems we have, RAID5 is a safe option for one reason, the
> machines are clusters, so we have (sort of) RAID50 here:
> Machine A/RAID5 <-- DRBD --> Machine B/RAID5
>
> Seems reliable enough for me. But in this case, the machine will be
> standalone, and so RAID5 might really not be the best choice.
>
> However, I'm pretty sure we'll have the same problems with RAID10, the
> problem seems to have to do with P400 and/or SATA drives.
Yeah, I'm thinking there's something off in your system and until you
resolve it you're going to have issues. I'd check the following:
firmware on RAID controller
how it runs with a couple of SAS drives in RAID-1 or RAID-0 (just for testing)
OS version / kernel version / driver version. especially compared to
your customer's machine. See how much of his environment you can
clone until performance goes up where it should be. Then change one
thing at a time until you break it again. I'm sure everyone here would
like to know what makes a P400 fast or slow.
Or, if you don't have time to mess with it, just order an escalade or
areca card and be done with it. :)
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 33+ messages in thread
* Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives?
2008-12-02 09:22 Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-05 23:00 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>
2008-12-09 12:10 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-09 15:58 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
2008-12-09 16:17 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Aidan Van Dyk <aidan@highrise.ca>
2008-12-10 12:29 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-10 15:52 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Aidan Van Dyk <aidan@highrise.ca>
2008-12-10 16:05 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-10 16:17 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>
@ 2008-12-10 18:08 ` Matthew Wakeling <matthew@flymine.org>
2008-12-10 19:13 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Greg Smith <gsmith@gregsmith.com>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 33+ messages in thread
From: Matthew Wakeling @ 2008-12-10 18:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pgsql-performance
On Wed, 10 Dec 2008, Scott Marlowe wrote:
> Or, if you don't have time to mess with it, just order an escalade or
> areca card and be done with it. :)
I'd be interested in recommendations for RAID cards for small SATA
systems. It's not anything to do with Postgres - I'm just intending to set
up a little four-drive array for my home computer, with cheap 1TB SATA
drives.
What PCI-Express or motherboard built-in SATA RAID controllers for about
four drives are there out there that are good, and well supported by
Linux? What level of support is there for monitoring and reporting of RAID
status?
Also, is it possible to set the drives in a hardware RAID into
auto-spindown mode? I'm going to be putting a SSD in as the main system
drive, with the RAID array to hold my large stuff which I only work on
part of the time.
Matthew
--
Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with your Microsoft product.
-- Ferenc Mantfeld
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 33+ messages in thread
* Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives?
2008-12-02 09:22 Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-05 23:00 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>
2008-12-09 12:10 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-09 15:58 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
2008-12-09 16:17 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Aidan Van Dyk <aidan@highrise.ca>
2008-12-10 12:29 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-10 15:52 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Aidan Van Dyk <aidan@highrise.ca>
2008-12-10 16:05 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-10 16:17 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>
2008-12-10 18:08 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Matthew Wakeling <matthew@flymine.org>
@ 2008-12-10 19:13 ` Greg Smith <gsmith@gregsmith.com>
2008-12-10 19:41 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>
2008-12-10 21:37 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? David Wilson <david.t.wilson@gmail.com>
2008-12-11 13:47 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Matthew Wakeling <matthew@flymine.org>
0 siblings, 3 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: Greg Smith @ 2008-12-10 19:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Matthew Wakeling <matthew@flymine.org>; +Cc: pgsql-performance
On Wed, 10 Dec 2008, Matthew Wakeling wrote:
> I'd be interested in recommendations for RAID cards for small SATA systems.
> It's not anything to do with Postgres - I'm just intending to set up a little
> four-drive array for my home computer, with cheap 1TB SATA drives.
Then why are you thinking of RAID cards? On a Linux only host, you might
as well just get a standard cheap multi-port SATA card that's compatible
with the OS, plug the four drives in, and run software RAID. Anything
else you put in the middle is going to add complications in terms of
things like getting SMART error data from the drives, and the SW RAID will
probably be faster too.
A great source for checking Linux compatibility is
http://linux-ata.org/driver-status.html
The only reason I have a good controller card in my system at home is
because it lets me do realistic performance tests with a write cache, so
fsync is accelerated when working with PostgreSQL. If just putting a
bunch of drives in there was my only concern, I'd have just bought a cheap
Silicon Image 3124 PCI-Express board.
> What PCI-Express or motherboard built-in SATA RAID controllers for about four
> drives are there out there that are good, and well supported by Linux? What
> level of support is there for monitoring and reporting of RAID status?
3ware 9650SE-4LPML is what I'd buy today if I wanted hardware SATA RAID.
When I made a similar decision some time ago, I bought an Areca 1210
instead, but two things have changed since then. One, I've become
increasingly unsatisfied with the limitations of the closed-source
controller management tool Areca supplies. And the performance of 3ware's
earlier 9550 model really lagged relative to Areca, while the newer 9650
is quite competative. More details on all of that on the blog entry I
wrote after my last disk failure:
http://notemagnet.blogspot.com/2008/08/linux-disk-failures-areca-is-not-so.html
--
* Greg Smith gsmith@gregsmith.com http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 33+ messages in thread
* Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives?
2008-12-02 09:22 Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-05 23:00 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>
2008-12-09 12:10 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-09 15:58 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
2008-12-09 16:17 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Aidan Van Dyk <aidan@highrise.ca>
2008-12-10 12:29 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-10 15:52 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Aidan Van Dyk <aidan@highrise.ca>
2008-12-10 16:05 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-10 16:17 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>
2008-12-10 18:08 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Matthew Wakeling <matthew@flymine.org>
2008-12-10 19:13 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Greg Smith <gsmith@gregsmith.com>
@ 2008-12-10 19:41 ` Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>
2 siblings, 0 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: Scott Marlowe @ 2008-12-10 19:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Greg Smith <gsmith@gregsmith.com>; +Cc: Matthew Wakeling <matthew@flymine.org>; pgsql-performance
On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 12:13 PM, Greg Smith <gsmith@gregsmith.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Dec 2008, Matthew Wakeling wrote:
>
>> I'd be interested in recommendations for RAID cards for small SATA
>> systems. It's not anything to do with Postgres - I'm just intending to set
>> up a little four-drive array for my home computer, with cheap 1TB SATA
>> drives.
>
> Then why are you thinking of RAID cards? On a Linux only host, you might as
> well just get a standard cheap multi-port SATA card that's compatible with
> the OS, plug the four drives in, and run software RAID. Anything else you
> put in the middle is going to add complications in terms of things like
> getting SMART error data from the drives, and the SW RAID will probably be
> faster too.
Note that you could combine the two and use a caching controller in
jbod mode and do the raid in linux kernel sw mode. Just a thought.
Not sure about the smart stuff though.
>> What PCI-Express or motherboard built-in SATA RAID controllers for about
>> four drives are there out there that are good, and well supported by Linux?
>> What level of support is there for monitoring and reporting of RAID status?
>
> 3ware 9650SE-4LPML is what I'd buy today if I wanted hardware SATA RAID.
> When I made a similar decision some time ago, I bought an Areca 1210
> instead, but two things have changed since then. One, I've become
> increasingly unsatisfied with the limitations of the closed-source
> controller management tool Areca supplies.
Note that Areca's newest controllers, the 1680 series, have a separate
ethernet port with snmp traps so you don't have to use any special
closed source software to monitor them. Just FYI for anyone
considering them.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 33+ messages in thread
* Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives?
2008-12-02 09:22 Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-05 23:00 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>
2008-12-09 12:10 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-09 15:58 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
2008-12-09 16:17 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Aidan Van Dyk <aidan@highrise.ca>
2008-12-10 12:29 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-10 15:52 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Aidan Van Dyk <aidan@highrise.ca>
2008-12-10 16:05 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-10 16:17 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>
2008-12-10 18:08 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Matthew Wakeling <matthew@flymine.org>
2008-12-10 19:13 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Greg Smith <gsmith@gregsmith.com>
@ 2008-12-10 21:37 ` David Wilson <david.t.wilson@gmail.com>
2 siblings, 0 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: David Wilson @ 2008-12-10 21:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Greg Smith <gsmith@gregsmith.com>; +Cc: Matthew Wakeling <matthew@flymine.org>; pgsql-performance
On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 2:13 PM, Greg Smith <gsmith@gregsmith.com> wrote:
> 3ware 9650SE-4LPML is what I'd buy today if I wanted hardware SATA RAID.
FWIW, I just put together a system with exactly that (4 320g drives in
raid 10) and have been pleased with the results. I won't have any
downtime to be able to get performance benchmarks until the current
compute/write pass finishes in a week and a half or so, but I don't
have any complaints with how it's performing for our app.
DB size is ~120gb now and add ~7gb/day during the current phase, at
which point it'll move to a light-write, high-read data warehouse
style usage pattern.
--
- David T. Wilson
david.t.wilson@gmail.com
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 33+ messages in thread
* Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives?
2008-12-02 09:22 Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-05 23:00 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>
2008-12-09 12:10 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-09 15:58 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
2008-12-09 16:17 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Aidan Van Dyk <aidan@highrise.ca>
2008-12-10 12:29 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-10 15:52 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Aidan Van Dyk <aidan@highrise.ca>
2008-12-10 16:05 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-10 16:17 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>
2008-12-10 18:08 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Matthew Wakeling <matthew@flymine.org>
2008-12-10 19:13 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Greg Smith <gsmith@gregsmith.com>
@ 2008-12-11 13:47 ` Matthew Wakeling <matthew@flymine.org>
2 siblings, 0 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: Matthew Wakeling @ 2008-12-11 13:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Greg Smith <gsmith@gregsmith.com>; +Cc: pgsql-performance
On Wed, 10 Dec 2008, Greg Smith wrote:
>> I'd be interested in recommendations for RAID cards for small SATA systems.
>> It's not anything to do with Postgres - I'm just intending to set up a
>> little four-drive array for my home computer, with cheap 1TB SATA drives.
>
> Then why are you thinking of RAID cards? On a Linux only host, you might as
> well just get a standard cheap multi-port SATA card that's compatible with
> the OS, plug the four drives in, and run software RAID. Anything else you
> put in the middle is going to add complications in terms of things like
> getting SMART error data from the drives, and the SW RAID will probably be
> faster too.
>
> A great source for checking Linux compatibility is
> http://linux-ata.org/driver-status.html
Thanks, that is the kind of info I was looking for. It looks like most
sensible SATA controller manufacturers are converging towards the open
ahci controller standard, which is useful.
Matthew
--
The best way to accelerate a Microsoft product is at 9.8 metres per second
per second.
- Anonymous
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 33+ messages in thread
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2008-12-02 09:22 Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-05 22:48 ` Kevin Grittner <Kevin.Grittner@wicourts.gov>
2008-12-05 23:30 ` Alan Hodgson <ahodgson@simkin.ca>
2008-12-06 00:29 ` Greg Smith <gsmith@gregsmith.com>
2008-12-06 01:39 ` Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>
2008-12-09 12:17 ` Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-09 15:30 ` Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>
2008-12-09 16:03 ` Gabriele Turchi <gabriele.turchi@l39a.com>
2008-12-09 16:25 ` Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>
2008-12-09 16:43 ` Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
2008-12-10 07:45 ` Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-10 07:58 ` Scott Carey <scott@richrelevance.com>
2008-12-10 14:17 ` Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>
2008-12-10 14:30 ` Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-09 12:15 ` Re: Experience with HP Smart Array P400 and SATA drives? Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-05 23:00 ` Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>
2008-12-09 12:10 ` Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-09 15:58 ` Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
2008-12-09 16:17 ` Aidan Van Dyk <aidan@highrise.ca>
2008-12-09 16:27 ` Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
2008-12-09 16:35 ` Aidan Van Dyk <aidan@highrise.ca>
2008-12-09 16:43 ` Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
2008-12-10 12:29 ` Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-10 13:34 ` Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>
2008-12-10 15:21 ` Gregory Williamson <Gregory.Williamson@digitalglobe.com>
2008-12-10 15:52 ` Aidan Van Dyk <aidan@highrise.ca>
2008-12-10 16:05 ` Mario Weilguni <mweilguni@sime.com>
2008-12-10 16:17 ` Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>
2008-12-10 18:08 ` Matthew Wakeling <matthew@flymine.org>
2008-12-10 19:13 ` Greg Smith <gsmith@gregsmith.com>
2008-12-10 19:41 ` Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com>
2008-12-10 21:37 ` David Wilson <david.t.wilson@gmail.com>
2008-12-11 13:47 ` Matthew Wakeling <matthew@flymine.org>
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