From: Greg Smith <greg@2ndquadrant.com>
To: Samuel Gendler <sgendler@ideasculptor.com>
Cc: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
Cc: Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
Cc: Jeff Janes <jeff.janes@gmail.com>
Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org
Subject: Re: Wrong docs on wal_buffers?
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2011 13:46:12 -0500
Message-ID: <4D275F74.3040405@2ndquadrant.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinic_jZ4M7W4ffxanw2rcEE_BVw+w44LRS6Tzy3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4D24D7DE.6020507@agliodbs.com>
<AANLkTi=YLCEGcwa-9hFYykRgTfUVDhZrwNGo7qaJZnRC@mail.gmail.com>
<4D2610F3.8070407@agliodbs.com>
<4D269899.6040901@2ndquadrant.com>
<AANLkTik52Agzi+3dUsdK5=UK6BeLLz2fU7FLF07hy+Yy@mail.gmail.com>
<18962.1294412821@sss.pgh.pa.us>
<AANLkTinic_jZ4M7W4ffxanw2rcEE_BVw+w44LRS6Tzy3@mail.gmail.com>
Samuel Gendler wrote:
> I was trying to make the point that, in an attempt to make things very
> easy for novice users, we are actually making them quite a bit more
> complex for novice users who want to do anything besides start the server.
People who can't start the server often abandon PostgreSQL, never come
back again. And in the worst case, they popularize their frustration
via blogs etc. That contributes to the perception the program is hard
to use far more than people who run into problems only with
performance--people expect database tuning to be non-trivial, but they
have minimal tolerance for trouble when first trying to use a program.
From an advocacy perspective, there is no higher priority than making
sure things work as smoothly as feasible for people who have never run
PostgreSQL before. Changing the software so it doesn't work out of the
box on a system with minimal shared memory defaults, as seen on Linux
and other operating systems, would be one of the worst possible changes
to the database anyone could make.
About once a month now I came across someone who used my pgtune
program: https://github.com/gregs1104/pgtune to get a reasonable
starting configuration. That program is still rough and has
limitations, but the general idea turns out to work just fine. I'm
bored with discussions about making this easier for users unless they
involve people volunteering to help with the coding needed to turn that,
or something better than it, into a release quality tool. The path to
sort this out is mapped out in excruciating detail from my perspective.
The only thing missing are code contributors with time to walk down it.
So far it's me, occasional code refinement from Matt Harrison, some
packager help, and periodic review from people like Josh Berkus. And
that's just not good enough to make progress on this particular front
quickly enough.
--
Greg Smith 2ndQuadrant US greg@2ndQuadrant.com Baltimore, MD
PostgreSQL Training, Services and Support www.2ndQuadrant.us
"PostgreSQL 9.0 High Performance": http://www.2ndQuadrant.com/books
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Reply to all the recipients using the --to and --cc options:
reply via email
To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org
Cc: greg@2ndquadrant.com, sgendler@ideasculptor.com, tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us, josh@agliodbs.com, jeff.janes@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Wrong docs on wal_buffers?
In-Reply-To: <4D275F74.3040405@2ndquadrant.com>
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
This inbox is served by DDX for PostgreSQL; see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox