public inbox for [email protected]
help / color / mirror / Atom feedRe: Promoting PostgreSQL to the world.
28+ messages / 6 participants
[nested] [flat]
* Re: Promoting PostgreSQL to the world.
@ 2004-04-29 04:55 Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread
From: Bruce Momjian @ 2004-04-29 04:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: [email protected]; +Cc: pgsql-www
Hey, www guys, here is a merchandizing request. Thanks.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Federico Lara wrote:
> Hello Mr.Momjian,
> I noticed on your site(http://store.pgsql.com/)
> That you are selling "officially licensed PostgreSQL apparel".
>
> In the next 2 months, my company (mayopi.com)is starting an
> online apparel and merchandise shop called "SourceWear" and are
> very interested in supporting the "PostgreSQL Global Development
> Group" with a percentage of the proceeds from sales of apparel
> and other merchandise containing the "PostgreSQL" logo(s).
>
> Whom may I speak to in regards to obtaining the proper
> merchandising License from the "PostgreSQL Global Development
> Group".
>
>
> Thank you for your attention and consideration,
>
>
>
> Federico Lara ViCaDi
> CEO/Dream Weaver
> The Mayopi Co., LLC
> 1-877-476-6256
> [email protected]
> www.mayopi.com
>
>
--
Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
[email protected] | (610) 359-1001
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road
+ Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Promoting PostgreSQL to the world.
@ 2004-04-29 16:32 Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
parent: Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread
From: Josh Berkus @ 2004-04-29 16:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-www
Bruce,
> Hey, www guys, here is a merchandizing request. Thanks.
I don't think the Web list is appropriate for this ... I'll take it to Core
and Foundation. If we're not hosting it, what does merchandizing have to
do with the WWW?
--
Josh Berkus
Aglio Database Solutions
San Francisco
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Promoting PostgreSQL to the world.
@ 2004-04-29 17:00 Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>
parent: Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 2 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Bruce Momjian @ 2004-04-29 17:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Josh Berkus <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-www
Josh Berkus wrote:
> Bruce,
>
> > Hey, www guys, here is a merchandizing request. Thanks.
>
> I don't think the Web list is appropriate for this ... I'll take it to Core
> and Foundation. If we're not hosting it, what does merchandizing have to
> do with the WWW?
It is use of the logo, which I thought was under www control, but maybe
not. Who is the foundation anyway? They are just for marketing. Do
they control the logo?
--
Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
[email protected] | (610) 359-1001
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road
+ Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Promoting PostgreSQL to the world.
@ 2004-04-29 17:15 Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
parent: Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread
From: Josh Berkus @ 2004-04-29 17:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-www
Bruce,
> It is use of the logo, which I thought was under www control, but maybe
> not. Who is the foundation anyway? They are just for marketing. Do
> they control the logo?
Oh! I was thinking of the money, actually. If they're going to give us % of
sales, it has to go somewhere.
--
Josh Berkus
Aglio Database Solutions
San Francisco
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Promoting PostgreSQL to the world.
@ 2004-04-29 17:26 Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>
parent: Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 2 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Bruce Momjian @ 2004-04-29 17:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Josh Berkus <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-www
Josh Berkus wrote:
> Bruce,
>
> > It is use of the logo, which I thought was under www control, but maybe
> > not. Who is the foundation anyway? They are just for marketing. Do
> > they control the logo?
>
> Oh! I was thinking of the money, actually. If they're going to give us % of
> sales, it has to go somewhere.
I didn't think they had to give us money for using our logo.
--
Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
[email protected] | (610) 359-1001
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road
+ Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Promoting PostgreSQL to the world.
@ 2004-04-29 17:27 Peter Eisentraut <[email protected]>
parent: Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread
From: Peter Eisentraut @ 2004-04-29 17:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>; Josh Berkus <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-www
Bruce Momjian wrote:
> It is use of the logo, which I thought was under www control, but
> maybe not. Who is the foundation anyway? They are just for
> marketing. Do they control the logo?
The question what copyright and trademark licenses, if any, the logo has
would be useful to resolve. As I recall it, it was originally only
used by PostgreSQL, Inc. What kind of permission, if any, do we have
from them?
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Promoting PostgreSQL to the world.
@ 2004-04-29 17:29 Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
parent: Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread
From: Josh Berkus @ 2004-04-29 17:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-www
Burce,
> > Oh! I was thinking of the money, actually. If they're going to give us
> > % of sales, it has to go somewhere.
>
> I didn't think they had to give us money for using our logo.
They're offering to. Didn't you read the e-mail? We'd be fools to turn down
undesignated funds.
--
Josh Berkus
Aglio Database Solutions
San Francisco
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Promoting PostgreSQL to the world.
@ 2004-04-29 17:38 Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>
parent: Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread
From: Bruce Momjian @ 2004-04-29 17:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Josh Berkus <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-www
Josh Berkus wrote:
> Burce,
>
> > > Oh! I was thinking of the money, actually. If they're going to give us
> > > % of sales, it has to go somewhere.
> >
> > I didn't think they had to give us money for using our logo.
>
> They're offering to. Didn't you read the e-mail? We'd be fools to turn down
> undesignated funds.
Yea, but are they offering because they want to, or because they think
they have to?
--
Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
[email protected] | (610) 359-1001
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road
+ Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Promoting PostgreSQL to the world.
@ 2004-04-29 17:44 Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
parent: Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread
From: Josh Berkus @ 2004-04-29 17:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-www
Bruce,
> Yea, but are they offering because they want to, or because they think
> they have to?
Do you have something *against* raising money for the project? Geez, Bruce,
where's your head at today?
Look, if they start selling PostgreSQL t-shirts, presumably we're going to
sell less of them ourselves. So if they're not going to give us a % of the
revenue, I'd say turn them down. I have distinct hopes of raising money at
conventions by selling t-shirts.
But they are offering us a % of the revenue, without us having to ask. Why
on earth would we tell them to take the logo and keep their money?
--
Josh Berkus
Aglio Database Solutions
San Francisco
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Promoting PostgreSQL to the world.
@ 2004-04-29 17:56 Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>
parent: Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 3 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Bruce Momjian @ 2004-04-29 17:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Josh Berkus <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-www
Josh Berkus wrote:
> Bruce,
>
> > Yea, but are they offering because they want to, or because they think
> > they have to?
>
> Do you have something *against* raising money for the project? Geez, Bruce,
> where's your head at today?
>
> Look, if they start selling PostgreSQL t-shirts, presumably we're going to
> sell less of them ourselves. So if they're not going to give us a % of the
> revenue, I'd say turn them down. I have distinct hopes of raising money at
> conventions by selling t-shirts.
>
> But they are offering us a % of the revenue, without us having to ask. Why
> on earth would we tell them to take the logo and keep their money?
The distinction is whether we are going to require companies to give us
money to use our name or logo. If CP, SRA, or PostgreSQL, Inc. puts the
logo on their box, is that OK? I think we need to decide how this is
going to work long-term, not just in this case.
--
Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
[email protected] | (610) 359-1001
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road
+ Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Promoting PostgreSQL to the world.
@ 2004-04-29 18:45 Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
parent: Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>
2 siblings, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Josh Berkus @ 2004-04-29 18:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-www
Bruce,
> The distinction is whether we are going to require companies to give us
> money to use our name or logo. If CP, SRA, or PostgreSQL, Inc. puts the
> logo on their box, is that OK? I think we need to decide how this is
> going to work long-term, not just in this case.
I'm not sure that's the issue here. It's quite possible -- likely, in fact
-- that part of their merchandising plan is "A portion of the proceeds from
this merchandise goes to support Open Source projects." It's certainly
what *I* would do. I think you're making this a lot more complicated than
it needs to be.
--
-Josh Berkus
Aglio Database Solutions
San Francisco
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Promoting PostgreSQL to the world.
@ 2004-04-29 18:54 Rod Taylor <[email protected]>
parent: Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>
2 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread
From: Rod Taylor @ 2004-04-29 18:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>; +Cc: Josh Berkus <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
> The distinction is whether we are going to require companies to give us
> money to use our name or logo. If CP, SRA, or PostgreSQL, Inc. puts the
> logo on their box, is that OK? I think we need to decide how this is
> going to work long-term, not just in this case.
But it does depend on the specific case in question.
The PostgreSQL brand should be treated carefully as those using it will
be seen as representatives of the project. We should not allow others to
just pick up the logo or name and run with it irregardless of past
experiences with that firm or person.
If RedHat, SRA, or others released a retail product under the PostgreSQL
name, we should:
1. Hold them to a certain quality standard
2. Ensure it is PostgreSQL code that the product is based upon and
not SQL Lite branded as PostgreSQL 8 (unlikely -- but possible)
3. Ensure they provide compensation by (for example) having a
minimum of N staff dedicated to improving the public code base
or marketing efforts for the life of that product.
Despite everything SRA has done in the past, if a new CEO came by and
said they were forking the project and taking all staff off the public
project, we should not allow them to continue use of the PostgreSQL
brand. This requires protecting it in the first place. SRA could not
have received blanket authorization to use the logo to start with.
Not only should we take a reasonable cut (in this case) but we should
require a certain quality level in the product they put our logo.
Nothing worse than having your logo on a T-Shirt that disintegrates
during the first wash.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Promoting PostgreSQL to the world.
@ 2004-04-29 19:29 Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>
parent: Rod Taylor <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 3 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Bruce Momjian @ 2004-04-29 19:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Rod Taylor <[email protected]>; +Cc: Josh Berkus <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
Rod Taylor wrote:
> > The distinction is whether we are going to require companies to give us
> > money to use our name or logo. If CP, SRA, or PostgreSQL, Inc. puts the
> > logo on their box, is that OK? I think we need to decide how this is
> > going to work long-term, not just in this case.
>
> But it does depend on the specific case in question.
>
> The PostgreSQL brand should be treated carefully as those using it will
> be seen as representatives of the project. We should not allow others to
> just pick up the logo or name and run with it irregardless of past
> experiences with that firm or person.
>
> If RedHat, SRA, or others released a retail product under the PostgreSQL
> name, we should:
> 1. Hold them to a certain quality standard
> 2. Ensure it is PostgreSQL code that the product is based upon and
> not SQL Lite branded as PostgreSQL 8 (unlikely -- but possible)
> 3. Ensure they provide compensation by (for example) having a
> minimum of N staff dedicated to improving the public code base
> or marketing efforts for the life of that product.
>
> Despite everything SRA has done in the past, if a new CEO came by and
> said they were forking the project and taking all staff off the public
> project, we should not allow them to continue use of the PostgreSQL
> brand. This requires protecting it in the first place. SRA could not
> have received blanket authorization to use the logo to start with.
Command Prompt doesn't doesn't have any staff contributing to the public
project. Do we tell them they can't use the name "PostgreSQL"? That is
just an example. There are tons of PostgreSQL usages out there that
have no payback to the community. ConnX and dbexperts are good
examples.
> Not only should we take a reasonable cut (in this case) but we should
> require a certain quality level in the product they put our logo.
That is my point. Are we going to require a certain level of acceptable
usage for someone to use the name?
--
Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
[email protected] | (610) 359-1001
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road
+ Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Promoting PostgreSQL to the world.
@ 2004-04-29 19:40 David Fetter <[email protected]>
parent: Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>
2 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread
From: David Fetter @ 2004-04-29 19:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>; +Cc: Rod Taylor <[email protected]>; Josh Berkus <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
On Thu, Apr 29, 2004 at 03:29:47PM -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> Rod Taylor wrote:
[snip]
> > Despite everything SRA has done in the past, if a new CEO came by
> > and said they were forking the project and taking all staff off
> > the public project, we should not allow them to continue use of
> > the PostgreSQL brand. This requires protecting it in the first
> > place. SRA could not have received blanket authorization to use
> > the logo to start with.
> Command Prompt doesn't doesn't have any staff contributing to the
> public project. Do we tell them they can't use the name
> "PostgreSQL"? That is just an example. There are tons of
> PostgreSQL usages out there that have no payback to the community.
> ConnX and dbexperts are good examples.
> > Not only should we take a reasonable cut (in this case) but we
> > should require a certain quality level in the product they put our
> > logo.
> That is my point. Are we going to require a certain level of
> acceptable usage for someone to use the name?
I am not an intellectual property attorney, but...wait a minute. Is
PostgreSQL a trademark? If it is, we need to defend it, or it lapses.
An IP attorney can say how, but I don't think any of the rest of us is
qualified to have an opinion on this without consulting one.
Just my $.02.
Cheers,
D
--
David Fetter [email protected] http://fetter.org/
phone: +1 510 893 6100 mobile: +1 415 235 3778
Remember to vote!
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Promoting PostgreSQL to the world.
@ 2004-04-29 19:44 Rod Taylor <[email protected]>
parent: Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>
2 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread
From: Rod Taylor @ 2004-04-29 19:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>; +Cc: Josh Berkus <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
> Command Prompt doesn't doesn't have any staff contributing to the public
> project. Do we tell them they can't use the name "PostgreSQL"? That is
> just an example. There are tons of PostgreSQL usages out there that
> have no payback to the community. ConnX and dbexperts are good
> examples.
If their next release should have several security issues pass through
bugtrack, it would be easy to confuse the two products and think that
PostgreSQL proper has the problems.
So yes, I would argue that Command Prompt should not be distributing a
modified PostgreSQL under the PostgreSQL brand name. Calling it Mammoth
Database and mentioning that it is based, in part, on PostgreSQL would
be more appropriate.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Promoting PostgreSQL to the world.
@ 2004-04-29 19:51 Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
parent: Rod Taylor <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 2 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Josh Berkus @ 2004-04-29 19:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Rod Taylor <[email protected]>; Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-www
Rod,
> So yes, I would argue that Command Prompt should not be distributing a
> modified PostgreSQL under the PostgreSQL brand name. Calling it Mammoth
> Database and mentioning that it is based, in part, on PostgreSQL would
> be more appropriate.
What if, on the other hand, they invite us to inspect it?
And it's not like CMD is a total non-contributor in the way dbExperts is.
While they're not patching modules to the main source, they've released
several add-ons as OSS. If I was going to yank the trademark chain on
anyone, it would be dbexperts.
However, Linux did *not* get where it is today by Linus prohibiting the use
of the name. We *should* send out letters to companies making sure that
they have a trademark notice for us ("PostgreSQL is a Registered
Trademark") ... but that opens up another sticky can o'worms, namely that the
trademark is filed for PostgreSQL Inc, not for the PGDG, which legally
doesn't exist.
--
-Josh Berkus
Aglio Database Solutions
San Francisco
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Promoting PostgreSQL to the world.
@ 2004-04-29 19:56 Peter Eisentraut <[email protected]>
parent: Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>
2 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread
From: Peter Eisentraut @ 2004-04-29 19:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>; Rod Taylor <[email protected]>; +Cc: Josh Berkus <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
Bruce Momjian wrote:
> That is my point. Are we going to require a certain level of
> acceptable usage for someone to use the name?
It's easy to shoot yourself in the foot that way. You may find that the
next Debian release will contain a package "database whose name we are
not allowed to use" and everything is stripped of logos and icons
because they are not free to use. It has happened before.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Promoting PostgreSQL to the world.
@ 2004-04-29 20:16 Rod Taylor <[email protected]>
parent: Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Rod Taylor @ 2004-04-29 20:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Josh Berkus <[email protected]>; +Cc: Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
On Thu, 2004-04-29 at 15:51, Josh Berkus wrote:
> Rod,
>
> > So yes, I would argue that Command Prompt should not be distributing a
> > modified PostgreSQL under the PostgreSQL brand name. Calling it Mammoth
> > Database and mentioning that it is based, in part, on PostgreSQL would
> > be more appropriate.
>
> What if, on the other hand, they invite us to inspect it?
>
> And it's not like CMD is a total non-contributor in the way dbExperts is.
> While they're not patching modules to the main source, they've released
> several add-ons as OSS. If I was going to yank the trademark chain on
> anyone, it would be dbexperts.
Yes, your right. CMD has been good for the main group. I simply want to
ensure that there is enough differentiation in naming convention that
the unwashed masses will not confuse the 2.
The FreeBSD group decided long ago that in order for it to hold the
FreeBSD name, it must go through the FreeBSD processes as a part of the
group. In this case, the FreeBSD name demonstrated quality that you
could trust was tested, open, etc.
This is why there is TrustedBSD (prior to re-integration with the
FreeBSD project) and DragonFlyBSD rather than Trusted FreeBSD and
FreeBSD Experimental.
I think that was a wise decision as there is very little confusion as to
what the FreeBSD group has been responsible for or supports.
What does the name "PostgreSQL Replicator" tell someone who finds it in
Googles results?
I'm guilty of doing the same thing with PostgreSQL Autodoc.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Promoting PostgreSQL to the world.
@ 2004-04-29 20:21 Rod Taylor <[email protected]>
parent: Peter Eisentraut <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 2 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Rod Taylor @ 2004-04-29 20:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Peter Eisentraut <[email protected]>; +Cc: Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>; Josh Berkus <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
On Thu, 2004-04-29 at 15:56, Peter Eisentraut wrote:
> Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > That is my point. Are we going to require a certain level of
> > acceptable usage for someone to use the name?
>
> It's easy to shoot yourself in the foot that way. You may find that the
> next Debian release will contain a package "database whose name we are
> not allowed to use" and everything is stripped of logos and icons
> because they are not free to use. It has happened before.
I think that is different though. They're simply redistributing exactly
what we gave them (compiled, but still the same).
We already have issues with users adding patches to the database, like
CONNECT BY, which have a number of bugs. If Debian applied those patches
by default and a flood of Debian users started complaining about our
buggy software what would we do? If it would be to tell them they're not
using an official release, then it shouldn't have the PostgreSQL name on
it.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Promoting PostgreSQL to the world.
@ 2004-04-29 20:41 Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
parent: Peter Eisentraut <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Marc G. Fournier @ 2004-04-29 20:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Peter Eisentraut <[email protected]>; +Cc: Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>; Josh Berkus <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
On Thu, 29 Apr 2004, Peter Eisentraut wrote:
> Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > It is use of the logo, which I thought was under www control, but
> > maybe not. Who is the foundation anyway? They are just for
> > marketing. Do they control the logo?
>
> The question what copyright and trademark licenses, if any, the logo has
> would be useful to resolve. As I recall it, it was originally only
> used by PostgreSQL, Inc. What kind of permission, if any, do we have
> from them?
Same as has always been giving ... feel free to use it unless for
malicious purposes ...
----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: [email protected] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Promoting PostgreSQL to the world.
@ 2004-04-29 20:42 Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
parent: Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Marc G. Fournier @ 2004-04-29 20:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>; +Cc: Josh Berkus <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
On Thu, 29 Apr 2004, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> Josh Berkus wrote:
> > Bruce,
> >
> > > It is use of the logo, which I thought was under www control, but maybe
> > > not. Who is the foundation anyway? They are just for marketing. Do
> > > they control the logo?
> >
> > Oh! I was thinking of the money, actually. If they're going to give us % of
> > sales, it has to go somewhere.
>
> I didn't think they had to give us money for using our logo.
Nope, they don't, they were offering to give it, which should, in reality,
go to the marketing efforts of Josh and gang ...
----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: [email protected] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Promoting PostgreSQL to the world.
@ 2004-04-29 20:43 Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
parent: Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>
2 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread
From: Marc G. Fournier @ 2004-04-29 20:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>; +Cc: Josh Berkus <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
On Thu, 29 Apr 2004, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> The distinction is whether we are going to require companies to give us
> money to use our name or logo. If CP, SRA, or PostgreSQL, Inc. puts the
> logo on their box, is that OK? I think we need to decide how this is
> going to work long-term, not just in this case.
I don't think there should ever be a *requirement* ... it does us good to
see it around more, as it promotes us ...
----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: [email protected] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Promoting PostgreSQL to the world.
@ 2004-04-29 20:46 Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
parent: David Fetter <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Marc G. Fournier @ 2004-04-29 20:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: David Fetter <[email protected]>; +Cc: Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>; Rod Taylor <[email protected]>; Josh Berkus <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
On Thu, 29 Apr 2004, David Fetter wrote:
> I am not an intellectual property attorney, but...wait a minute. Is
> PostgreSQL a trademark?
Has been for over a year now, and is held in trust by PostgreSQL, Inc ...
and we've been through the whole lawyer route ...
----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: [email protected] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Promoting PostgreSQL to the world.
@ 2004-04-29 20:47 Peter Eisentraut <[email protected]>
parent: Rod Taylor <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread
From: Peter Eisentraut @ 2004-04-29 20:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Rod Taylor <[email protected]>; +Cc: Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>; Josh Berkus <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
Rod Taylor wrote:
> I think that is different though. They're simply redistributing
> exactly what we gave them (compiled, but still the same).
Except that there is a 452 kB diff file that comes along with it.
> We already have issues with users adding patches to the database,
> like CONNECT BY, which have a number of bugs. If Debian applied those
> patches by default and a flood of Debian users started complaining
> about our buggy software what would we do? If it would be to tell
> them they're not using an official release, then it shouldn't have
> the PostgreSQL name on it.
You can check the archives for what we have done in the past, because
there have been exactly analogous cases already. But I would think
that if the postgresql package had to be renamed we would have even
more traffic about that, so it's not necessarily an improvement.
If you consider the state of free operating system distributions (not
only Linux) today, then it's obvious that if all packages had
restrictions like you propose, then nothing could get distributed
anymore under a recognizable name, which would quickly end up being the
suicide of the free software community.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Promoting PostgreSQL to the world.
@ 2004-04-29 20:48 Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
parent: Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Marc G. Fournier @ 2004-04-29 20:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Josh Berkus <[email protected]>; +Cc: Rod Taylor <[email protected]>; Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
On Thu, 29 Apr 2004, Josh Berkus wrote:
> And it's not like CMD is a total non-contributor in the way dbExperts
> is. While they're not patching modules to the main source, they've
> released several add-ons as OSS. If I was going to yank the trademark
> chain on anyone, it would be dbexperts.
Agreed ... CP has done various things to contribute to the project ...
> However, Linux did *not* get where it is today by Linus prohibiting the
> use of the name. We *should* send out letters to companies making sure
> that they have a trademark notice for us ("PostgreSQL is a Registered
> Trademark") ... but that opens up another sticky can o'worms, namely
> that the trademark is filed for PostgreSQL Inc, not for the PGDG, which
> legally doesn't exist.
Doesn't make it any less of a Registered Trademark though ...
----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: [email protected] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Promoting PostgreSQL to the world.
@ 2004-04-29 21:30 Rod Taylor <[email protected]>
parent: Peter Eisentraut <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Rod Taylor @ 2004-04-29 21:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Peter Eisentraut <[email protected]>; +Cc: Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>; Josh Berkus <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
On Thu, 2004-04-29 at 16:47, Peter Eisentraut wrote:
> Rod Taylor wrote:
> > I think that is different though. They're simply redistributing
> > exactly what we gave them (compiled, but still the same).
>
> Except that there is a 452 kB diff file that comes along with it.
I know they back port security fixes and significant bug fixes -- but I
wouldn't expect there to be that much code for those.
Do you know what it contains?
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Promoting PostgreSQL to the world.
@ 2004-04-30 02:06 Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>
parent: Rod Taylor <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Bruce Momjian @ 2004-04-30 02:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Rod Taylor <[email protected]>; +Cc: Peter Eisentraut <[email protected]>; Josh Berkus <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
Rod Taylor wrote:
> On Thu, 2004-04-29 at 15:56, Peter Eisentraut wrote:
> > Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > > That is my point. Are we going to require a certain level of
> > > acceptable usage for someone to use the name?
> >
> > It's easy to shoot yourself in the foot that way. You may find that the
> > next Debian release will contain a package "database whose name we are
> > not allowed to use" and everything is stripped of logos and icons
> > because they are not free to use. It has happened before.
>
> I think that is different though. They're simply redistributing exactly
> what we gave them (compiled, but still the same).
Uh, one linux distribution add an option to pg_hba.conf. We only found
out when someone reported it as not working, so that redistribution
thing isn't 100%.
>
> We already have issues with users adding patches to the database, like
> CONNECT BY, which have a number of bugs. If Debian applied those patches
> by default and a flood of Debian users started complaining about our
> buggy software what would we do? If it would be to tell them they're not
> using an official release, then it shouldn't have the PostgreSQL name on
> it.
Sure, we tell them and they know it. The idea that somehow we are going
to get a bad name seems a minor risk compared to the management
nightmare of trying to certify everything. If we certify it and it is
bad, we really have a problem.
--
Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
[email protected] | (610) 359-1001
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road
+ Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 28+ messages in thread
* Re: Promoting PostgreSQL to the world.
@ 2004-04-30 02:07 Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>
parent: Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Bruce Momjian @ 2004-04-30 02:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; +Cc: Josh Berkus <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Apr 2004, Bruce Momjian wrote:
>
> > The distinction is whether we are going to require companies to give us
> > money to use our name or logo. If CP, SRA, or PostgreSQL, Inc. puts the
> > logo on their box, is that OK? I think we need to decide how this is
> > going to work long-term, not just in this case.
>
> I don't think there should ever be a *requirement* ... it does us good to
> see it around more, as it promotes us ...
Yea, that is my feeling.
--
Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
[email protected] | (610) 359-1001
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road
+ Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 28+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2004-04-30 02:07 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 28+ messages (download: mbox mbox.gz follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2004-04-29 04:55 Re: Promoting PostgreSQL to the world. Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>
2004-04-29 16:32 ` Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
2004-04-29 17:00 ` Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>
2004-04-29 17:15 ` Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
2004-04-29 17:26 ` Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>
2004-04-29 17:29 ` Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
2004-04-29 17:38 ` Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>
2004-04-29 17:44 ` Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
2004-04-29 17:56 ` Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>
2004-04-29 18:45 ` Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
2004-04-29 18:54 ` Rod Taylor <[email protected]>
2004-04-29 19:29 ` Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>
2004-04-29 19:40 ` David Fetter <[email protected]>
2004-04-29 20:46 ` Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-04-29 19:44 ` Rod Taylor <[email protected]>
2004-04-29 19:51 ` Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
2004-04-29 20:16 ` Rod Taylor <[email protected]>
2004-04-29 20:48 ` Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-04-29 19:56 ` Peter Eisentraut <[email protected]>
2004-04-29 20:21 ` Rod Taylor <[email protected]>
2004-04-29 20:47 ` Peter Eisentraut <[email protected]>
2004-04-29 21:30 ` Rod Taylor <[email protected]>
2004-04-30 02:06 ` Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>
2004-04-29 20:43 ` Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-04-30 02:07 ` Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>
2004-04-29 20:42 ` Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-04-29 17:27 ` Peter Eisentraut <[email protected]>
2004-04-29 20:41 ` Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
This inbox is served by agora; see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox