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* Domain conference.postgresql.org requested
@ 2006-01-12 23:41 Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
2006-01-12 23:43 ` Re: Domain conference.postgresql.org requested Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Josh Berkus @ 2006-01-12 23:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pgsql-www
People:
Peter, Andrew, Gavin, Gavin and I would like to use the subdomain
conference.postgresql.org to put up a web site for the PostgreSQL
Anniversary in July.
If that's OK, then can we have that CNAME'd to gordo.ehpg.net? We'll set
it up at Eight Hundred Pound Gorilla, Gavin Roy's host.
--
--Josh
Josh Berkus
Aglio Database Solutions
San Francisco
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Domain conference.postgresql.org requested
2006-01-12 23:41 Domain conference.postgresql.org requested Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
@ 2006-01-12 23:43 ` Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2006-01-13 00:33 ` Re: Domain conference.postgresql.org requested Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Marc G. Fournier @ 2006-01-12 23:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Josh Berkus <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-www
Done
On Thu, 12 Jan 2006, Josh Berkus wrote:
> People:
>
> Peter, Andrew, Gavin, Gavin and I would like to use the subdomain
> conference.postgresql.org to put up a web site for the PostgreSQL
> Anniversary in July.
>
> If that's OK, then can we have that CNAME'd to gordo.ehpg.net? We'll set
> it up at Eight Hundred Pound Gorilla, Gavin Roy's host.
>
> --
> --Josh
>
> Josh Berkus
> Aglio Database Solutions
> San Francisco
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?
>
> http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
>
----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: [email protected] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Domain conference.postgresql.org requested
2006-01-12 23:41 Domain conference.postgresql.org requested Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
2006-01-12 23:43 ` Re: Domain conference.postgresql.org requested Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
@ 2006-01-13 00:33 ` Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2006-01-13 00:55 ` Re: Domain conference.postgresql.org requested Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
2006-01-13 01:28 ` Re: Domain conference.postgresql.org requested Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 2 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Marc G. Fournier @ 2006-01-13 00:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; +Cc: Josh Berkus <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
BTW, I thought that we were going to avoid segmenting the sites anymore
... ? Based on discussions in the past, the goal was to merge, not split
off splinter sites ... ?
On Thu, 12 Jan 2006, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
>
> Done
>
> On Thu, 12 Jan 2006, Josh Berkus wrote:
>
>> People:
>>
>> Peter, Andrew, Gavin, Gavin and I would like to use the subdomain
>> conference.postgresql.org to put up a web site for the PostgreSQL
>> Anniversary in July.
>>
>> If that's OK, then can we have that CNAME'd to gordo.ehpg.net? We'll set
>> it up at Eight Hundred Pound Gorilla, Gavin Roy's host.
>>
>> --
>> --Josh
>>
>> Josh Berkus
>> Aglio Database Solutions
>> San Francisco
>>
>> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
>> TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?
>>
>> http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
>>
>
> ----
> Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
> Email: [email protected] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to
> choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not
> match
>
----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: [email protected] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Domain conference.postgresql.org requested
2006-01-12 23:41 Domain conference.postgresql.org requested Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
2006-01-12 23:43 ` Re: Domain conference.postgresql.org requested Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2006-01-13 00:33 ` Re: Domain conference.postgresql.org requested Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
@ 2006-01-13 00:55 ` Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Josh Berkus @ 2006-01-13 00:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-www
Marc,
> BTW, I thought that we were going to avoid segmenting the sites anymore
> ... ? Based on discussions in the past, the goal was to merge, not
> split off splinter sites ... ?
Well, that *is* why I put the request on this list.
However, we need a CMS for the conference so that us non-web-developer
types can manage the conference content, registrations, etc. So we'll be
running it on Framewerk, which means that it needs to be hosted elsewhere.
AFAIK, that means a subdomain, doesn't it?
--
--Josh
Josh Berkus
Aglio Database Solutions
San Francisco
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Domain conference.postgresql.org requested
2006-01-12 23:41 Domain conference.postgresql.org requested Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
2006-01-12 23:43 ` Re: Domain conference.postgresql.org requested Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2006-01-13 00:33 ` Re: Domain conference.postgresql.org requested Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
@ 2006-01-13 01:28 ` Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Joshua D. Drake @ 2006-01-13 01:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; +Cc: Josh Berkus <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
Marc G. Fournier wrote:
>
> BTW, I thought that we were going to avoid segmenting the sites anymore
> ... ? Based on discussions in the past, the goal was to merge, not
> split off splinter sites ... ?
It does seem that maybe this should be www.postgresql.org/conference
instead.
J
>
> On Thu, 12 Jan 2006, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
>
>>
>> Done
>>
>> On Thu, 12 Jan 2006, Josh Berkus wrote:
>>
>>> People:
>>>
>>> Peter, Andrew, Gavin, Gavin and I would like to use the subdomain
>>> conference.postgresql.org to put up a web site for the PostgreSQL
>>> Anniversary in July.
>>>
>>> If that's OK, then can we have that CNAME'd to gordo.ehpg.net?
>>> We'll set
>>> it up at Eight Hundred Pound Gorilla, Gavin Roy's host.
>>>
>>> --
>>> --Josh
>>>
>>> Josh Berkus
>>> Aglio Database Solutions
>>> San Francisco
>>>
>>> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
>>> TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?
>>>
>>> http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
>>>
>>
>> ----
>> Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services
>> (http://www.hub.org)
>> Email: [email protected] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ:
>> 7615664
>>
>> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
>> TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to
>> choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not
>> match
>>
>
> ----
> Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
> Email: [email protected] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives?
>
> http://archives.postgresql.org
--
The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. 1.503.667.4564
PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support
Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting
Co-Authors: plPHP, plPerlNG - http://www.commandprompt.com/
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Domain conference.postgresql.org requested
@ 2006-01-13 08:14 Dave Page <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Dave Page @ 2006-01-13 08:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; +Cc: Josh Berkus <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected]
> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Marc G. Fournier
> Sent: 13 January 2006 00:33
> To: Marc G. Fournier
> Cc: Josh Berkus; [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [pgsql-www] Domain conference.postgresql.org requested
>
>
> BTW, I thought that we were going to avoid segmenting the
> sites anymore
> ... ? Based on discussions in the past, the goal was to
> merge, not split
> off splinter sites ... ?
Yes, it was.
Regards, Dave
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Domain conference.postgresql.org requested
@ 2006-01-13 08:17 Dave Page <[email protected]>
2006-01-13 18:43 ` Re: Domain conference.postgresql.org requested Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Dave Page @ 2006-01-13 08:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: [email protected]; Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-www
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected]
> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Josh Berkus
> Sent: 13 January 2006 00:55
> To: Marc G. Fournier
> Cc: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [pgsql-www] Domain conference.postgresql.org requested
>
> Marc,
>
> > BTW, I thought that we were going to avoid segmenting the
> sites anymore
> > ... ? Based on discussions in the past, the goal was to merge, not
> > split off splinter sites ... ?
>
> Well, that *is* why I put the request on this list.
>
> However, we need a CMS for the conference so that us
> non-web-developer
> types can manage the conference content, registrations, etc.
> So we'll be
> running it on Framewerk, which means that it needs to be
> hosted elsewhere.
> AFAIK, that means a subdomain, doesn't it?
Registration would take a little effort from one of us, but surely
everyone involved is capable of wrapping paragraphs/headers in <p> </p>
or <hX> </hX> tags? It's not like you need to handle any of the styling
or layout code as you know from when you did the first few PWNs.
Regards, Dave
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Domain conference.postgresql.org requested
2006-01-13 08:17 Re: Domain conference.postgresql.org requested Dave Page <[email protected]>
@ 2006-01-13 18:43 ` Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
2006-01-13 19:00 ` Re: Domain conference.postgresql.org requested Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
2006-01-13 21:43 ` Re: Domain conference.postgresql.org requested Dave Page <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 2 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Josh Berkus @ 2006-01-13 18:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dave Page <[email protected]>; +Cc: Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
Dave,
> Registration would take a little effort from one of us, but surely
> everyone involved is capable of wrapping paragraphs/headers in <p> </p>
> or <hX> </hX> tags? It's not like you need to handle any of the styling
> or layout code as you know from when you did the first few PWNs.
Yes, but there's forms as well ... registration forms, submission of
papers, etc. I'm also not clear that, for marketing reasons, we want
conference registration to be buried in the www.postgresql.org
navigation. Speaking of which, how many levels of navigation does
postgresql.org support?
Is there someone on this list who's willing to be at our beck and call
to make changes that go beyond static HTML (like an announcements
ticker)? And can turn these things around quickly?
Each of the 4 of us leading the conference effort expect to put in over
100 hours organizing it this spring. We don't have extra time to spend
on a web site beyond the development of content, so we need a solution
that doesn't require us to do more than that. If that solution is the
main postgresql.org infrastructure, we're going to need someone on this
list to lean on, and lean hard.
Aside from that, there's some question about whether or not having its
own root site might be better for the conference anyway. If you look at
O'Reilly or MySQL, neither subsumes the conference navigation into the
main website navigation. I'm concerned that doing so will make it
difficult for attendees to find the information they want.
On the other hand, it would make it indisputable a "community" event.
--Josh
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Domain conference.postgresql.org requested
2006-01-13 08:17 Re: Domain conference.postgresql.org requested Dave Page <[email protected]>
2006-01-13 18:43 ` Re: Domain conference.postgresql.org requested Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
@ 2006-01-13 19:00 ` Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
2006-01-13 21:36 ` Re: Domain conference.postgresql.org requested Dave Page <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Joshua D. Drake @ 2006-01-13 19:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Josh Berkus <[email protected]>; +Cc: Dave Page <[email protected]>; Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
> Yes, but there's forms as well ... registration forms, submission of
> papers, etc. I'm also not clear that, for marketing reasons, we want
> conference registration to be buried in the www.postgresql.org
> navigation. Speaking of which, how many levels of navigation does
> postgresql.org support?
Well personally the conference should be the front page item right now
which would solve the navigation problem.
>
> Is there someone on this list who's willing to be at our beck and call
> to make changes that go beyond static HTML (like an announcements
> ticker)? And can turn these things around quickly?
>
> Each of the 4 of us leading the conference effort expect to put in over
> 100 hours organizing it this spring. We don't have extra time to spend
> on a web site beyond the development of content, so we need a solution
> that doesn't require us to do more than that. If that solution is the
> main postgresql.org infrastructure, we're going to need someone on this
> list to lean on, and lean hard.
>
> Aside from that, there's some question about whether or not having its
> own root site might be better for the conference anyway. If you look at
> O'Reilly or MySQL, neither subsumes the conference navigation into the
> main website navigation. I'm concerned that doing so will make it
> difficult for attendees to find the information they want.
>
> On the other hand, it would make it indisputable a "community" event.
>
> --Josh
>
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
--
The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. 1.503.667.4564
PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support
Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting
Co-Authors: plPHP, plPerlNG - http://www.commandprompt.com/
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Domain conference.postgresql.org requested
2006-01-13 08:17 Re: Domain conference.postgresql.org requested Dave Page <[email protected]>
2006-01-13 18:43 ` Re: Domain conference.postgresql.org requested Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
2006-01-13 19:00 ` Re: Domain conference.postgresql.org requested Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
@ 2006-01-13 21:36 ` Dave Page <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Dave Page @ 2006-01-13 21:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>; Josh Berkus <[email protected]>; +Cc: Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
On 13/1/06 19:00, "Joshua D. Drake" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Yes, but there's forms as well ... registration forms, submission of
>> papers, etc. I'm also not clear that, for marketing reasons, we want
>> conference registration to be buried in the www.postgresql.org
>> navigation. Speaking of which, how many levels of navigation does
>> postgresql.org support?
>
> Well personally the conference should be the front page item right now
> which would solve the navigation problem.
Well, at very least a 'Note this in you diary' warning until there's some
content to link to (where ever it ends up).
Which reminds me, is probably about time to put (Robert's?) gears back in
place of the trumpeting elephant isn't it?
/D
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Domain conference.postgresql.org requested
2006-01-13 08:17 Re: Domain conference.postgresql.org requested Dave Page <[email protected]>
2006-01-13 18:43 ` Re: Domain conference.postgresql.org requested Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
@ 2006-01-13 21:43 ` Dave Page <[email protected]>
2006-01-13 22:03 ` Re: Domain conference.postgresql.org requested Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Dave Page @ 2006-01-13 21:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Josh Berkus <[email protected]>; +Cc: Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
On 13/1/06 18:43, "Josh Berkus" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Dave,
>
>> Registration would take a little effort from one of us, but surely
>> everyone involved is capable of wrapping paragraphs/headers in <p> </p>
>> or <hX> </hX> tags? It's not like you need to handle any of the styling
>> or layout code as you know from when you did the first few PWNs.
>
> Yes, but there's forms as well ... registration forms, submission of
> papers, etc. I'm also not clear that, for marketing reasons, we want
> conference registration to be buried in the www.postgresql.org
> navigation. Speaking of which, how many levels of navigation does
> postgresql.org support?
Depends how it's done. Archives uses 3. The new techdocs is infinite but I
think it only shows you the lowest couple of levels and top/section menus at
any one time.
> Is there someone on this list who's willing to be at our beck and call
> to make changes that go beyond static HTML (like an announcements
> ticker)? And can turn these things around quickly?
Magnus? :-). Seriously though, it depends on what exactly is required. If it
is just registration and paper submissions then that shouldn't be much of an
issue. Static pages are always easy of course.
> Each of the 4 of us leading the conference effort expect to put in over
> 100 hours organizing it this spring. We don't have extra time to spend
> on a web site beyond the development of content, so we need a solution
> that doesn't require us to do more than that. If that solution is the
> main postgresql.org infrastructure, we're going to need someone on this
> list to lean on, and lean hard.
>
> Aside from that, there's some question about whether or not having its
> own root site might be better for the conference anyway. If you look at
> O'Reilly or MySQL, neither subsumes the conference navigation into the
> main website navigation. I'm concerned that doing so will make it
> difficult for attendees to find the information they want.
Good point. Well, it is a temporary site so having it separate for good
reasons is not so evil I don't think. If you're convinced it needs to be
separate, then all I would suggest is that you make obviously a separate
site, yet clearly still PostgreSQL. Perhaps stick rigidly with the main site
colours and logo, but use a totally different layout. Or the same layout,
but different colours. That would help with your point below.
> On the other hand, it would make it indisputable a "community" event.
Regards, Dave.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Domain conference.postgresql.org requested
2006-01-13 08:17 Re: Domain conference.postgresql.org requested Dave Page <[email protected]>
2006-01-13 18:43 ` Re: Domain conference.postgresql.org requested Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
2006-01-13 21:43 ` Re: Domain conference.postgresql.org requested Dave Page <[email protected]>
@ 2006-01-13 22:03 ` Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
2006-01-13 22:41 ` Re: Domain conference.postgresql.org requested Guido Barosio <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Josh Berkus @ 2006-01-13 22:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dave Page <[email protected]>; +Cc: Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
Dave,
> Good point. Well, it is a temporary site so having it separate for good
> reasons is not so evil I don't think. If you're convinced it needs to be
> separate,
Well, that's what Peter, Andrew and Gavin S voted.
> then all I would suggest is that you make obviously a separate
> site, yet clearly still PostgreSQL. Perhaps stick rigidly with the main
> site colours and logo, but use a totally different layout. Or the same
> layout, but different colours. That would help with your point below.
Gavin Roy is preparing a template for Framewerk that's the PostgreSQL.org
"theme". So it will look like part of the site, just with different
navigation.
--
--Josh
Josh Berkus
Aglio Database Solutions
San Francisco
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Domain conference.postgresql.org requested
2006-01-13 08:17 Re: Domain conference.postgresql.org requested Dave Page <[email protected]>
2006-01-13 18:43 ` Re: Domain conference.postgresql.org requested Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
2006-01-13 21:43 ` Re: Domain conference.postgresql.org requested Dave Page <[email protected]>
2006-01-13 22:03 ` Re: Domain conference.postgresql.org requested Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
@ 2006-01-13 22:41 ` Guido Barosio <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Guido Barosio @ 2006-01-13 22:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: [email protected]; +Cc: Dave Page <[email protected]>; Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
Well, I am probably missing too much (dunno about the tech resources and
cost for the case), and you will probably be surprised on my post to the
thread, but:
1) conference.postgresql.org seems much more easy to remember than
www.postg....
(which has no sense if the site is temporary)
2) Google (and alike ones) will obviously index this documents, so, if *we*
set this as a subdomain, and then will switch it off, we'll have 404 GET
shit, when, if *we* use a www.postgre..../conference kind of site, then we
could easily redirect those hits to the main site, without paying an extra
for a subdomain.
My 2 cents, if they count go to the site/conference case.
Every little helps, and please avoid this post if I am being silly >:}
G.-
On 1/13/06, Josh Berkus <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Dave,
>
> > Good point. Well, it is a temporary site so having it separate for good
> > reasons is not so evil I don't think. If you're convinced it needs to be
> > separate,
>
> Well, that's what Peter, Andrew and Gavin S voted.
>
> > then all I would suggest is that you make obviously a separate
> > site, yet clearly still PostgreSQL. Perhaps stick rigidly with the main
> > site colours and logo, but use a totally different layout. Or the same
> > layout, but different colours. That would help with your point below.
>
> Gavin Roy is preparing a template for Framewerk that's the PostgreSQL.org
> "theme". So it will look like part of the site, just with different
> navigation.
>
> --
> --Josh
>
> Josh Berkus
> Aglio Database Solutions
> San Francisco
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to
> choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not
> match
>
--
/"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign .
\ / - NO HTML/RTF in e-mail .
X - NO Word docs in e-mail .
/ \ -----------------------------------------------------------------
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 13+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2006-01-13 22:41 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 13+ messages (download: mbox mbox.gz follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2006-01-12 23:41 Domain conference.postgresql.org requested Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
2006-01-12 23:43 ` Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2006-01-13 00:33 ` Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2006-01-13 00:55 ` Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
2006-01-13 01:28 ` Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
2006-01-13 08:14 Re: Domain conference.postgresql.org requested Dave Page <[email protected]>
2006-01-13 08:17 Re: Domain conference.postgresql.org requested Dave Page <[email protected]>
2006-01-13 18:43 ` Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
2006-01-13 19:00 ` Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
2006-01-13 21:36 ` Dave Page <[email protected]>
2006-01-13 21:43 ` Dave Page <[email protected]>
2006-01-13 22:03 ` Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
2006-01-13 22:41 ` Guido Barosio <[email protected]>
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