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* Re: [GENERAL] Documentation quality WAS: interesting
@ 2003-06-24 13:29 Jan Wieck <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>
1 sibling, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Jan Wieck @ 2003-06-24 13:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: nolan@celery.tssi.com; +Cc: Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>; 'Advocacy PostgreSQL' <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; 'PostgreSQL-general' <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
nolan@celery.tssi.com wrote:
>> ??? You can look at an HTML file directy with any browser. If you're SSH-ing
>> in to a remote system, use Lynx. Though I agree that providing both man and
>> html would be nicer.
>
> Try accessing a HTML file on a Linux system from a PC-based browser.
>
> Unless you have some kind of file sharing software running, which I
> generally don't because the only times I've ever been hacked into they
> got in through file sharing ports, you can't get there from here.
If you work on Unix systems remotely on a regular base, you should have
a Unix system as a workstation too. That way you can use ssh(1) to
forward your X11 connections through a secure channel.
A "second" PC can be implemented as a memory+disk upgrade together with
a VMware license.
Jan
--
#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me. #
#================================================== JanWieck@Yahoo.com #
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] Documentation quality WAS: interesting
@ 2003-06-24 13:53 Arjen van der Meijden <acm@tweakers.net>
parent: Jan Wieck <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>
1 sibling, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Arjen van der Meijden @ 2003-06-24 13:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 'Jan Wieck' <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>; nolan@celery.tssi.com; +Cc: 'Advocacy PostgreSQL' <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; 'PostgreSQL-general' <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
> Jan Wieck wrote:
> If you work on Unix systems remotely on a regular base, you
> should have
> a Unix system as a workstation too. That way you can use ssh(1) to
> forward your X11 connections through a secure channel.
>
> A "second" PC can be implemented as a memory+disk upgrade
> together with
> a VMware license.
There also ssh clients which support X11 forwarding on a windows machine
and since there are X11 servers for windows...
You don't necessarily need a unix workstation. Apart from that, a
(tight)vnc server might be less bandwidth consuming.
Arjen
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] Documentation quality WAS: interesting
@ 2003-06-24 14:22 Jan Wieck <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>
parent: Arjen van der Meijden <acm@tweakers.net>
1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Jan Wieck @ 2003-06-24 14:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Arjen van der Meijden <acm@tweakers.net>; +Cc: nolan@celery.tssi.com, "'Advocacy PostgreSQL'" <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; 'PostgreSQL-general' <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
Arjen van der Meijden wrote:
>> Jan Wieck wrote:
>> If you work on Unix systems remotely on a regular base, you
>> should have
>> a Unix system as a workstation too. That way you can use ssh(1) to
>> forward your X11 connections through a secure channel.
>>
>> A "second" PC can be implemented as a memory+disk upgrade
>> together with
>> a VMware license.
>
> There also ssh clients which support X11 forwarding on a windows machine
> and since there are X11 servers for windows...
> You don't necessarily need a unix workstation. Apart from that, a
> (tight)vnc server might be less bandwidth consuming.
There are all kinds of stuff that works. VPN's, VNC's, you name it. I
just have the best experience with having a Unix workstation when
administering/working on remote Unix systems.
Plus, banning your workstation(s) into virtual machines has another, not
so obvious advantage. A backup of the workstation not only get's reduce
to copying the files that make up the virtual disk ... you can restore
it onto different hardware without confusing the device manager or going
through config hassles. Ever restored a Windows backup onto a
replacement notebook? Don't risk that "fun".
Right now I have 1 Linux and 2 Win2K "systems" running inside of VMware
on my notebook. With FreeBSD and Minix standing by. They are a happy
little virtual network.
But I think we're going a bit off topic here ...
Jan
--
#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me. #
#================================================== JanWieck@Yahoo.com #
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] Documentation quality WAS: interesting
@ 2003-06-24 14:54 Tim Hawkins <tim@timhawkins.co.uk>
parent: Jan Wieck <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Tim Hawkins @ 2003-06-24 14:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Jan Wieck <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>; Arjen van der Meijden <acm@tweakers.net>; +Cc: nolan@celery.tssi.com; 'Advocacy PostgreSQL' <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; 'PostgreSQL-general' <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
The xserver in cygwin works just fine on all the systems I have tested, I
have several linux boxen at home all headless, and I use Cygwin and XDMP to
select which box I what to connect to and manage, seems as fast as using a
local screen etc. Webmin is also a good tool, as it also has a POSTGRESQL
managemnt module in it.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jan Wieck" <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>
To: "Arjen van der Meijden" <acm@tweakers.net>
Cc: <nolan@celery.tssi.com>; "'Advocacy PostgreSQL'"
<pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; "'PostgreSQL-general'"
<pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 3:22 PM
Subject: Re: [GENERAL] [pgsql-advocacy] Documentation quality WAS:
interesting
> Arjen van der Meijden wrote:
> >> Jan Wieck wrote:
> >> If you work on Unix systems remotely on a regular base, you
> >> should have
> >> a Unix system as a workstation too. That way you can use ssh(1) to
> >> forward your X11 connections through a secure channel.
> >>
> >> A "second" PC can be implemented as a memory+disk upgrade
> >> together with
> >> a VMware license.
> >
> > There also ssh clients which support X11 forwarding on a windows machine
> > and since there are X11 servers for windows...
> > You don't necessarily need a unix workstation. Apart from that, a
> > (tight)vnc server might be less bandwidth consuming.
>
> There are all kinds of stuff that works. VPN's, VNC's, you name it. I
> just have the best experience with having a Unix workstation when
> administering/working on remote Unix systems.
>
> Plus, banning your workstation(s) into virtual machines has another, not
> so obvious advantage. A backup of the workstation not only get's reduce
> to copying the files that make up the virtual disk ... you can restore
> it onto different hardware without confusing the device manager or going
> through config hassles. Ever restored a Windows backup onto a
> replacement notebook? Don't risk that "fun".
>
> Right now I have 1 Linux and 2 Win2K "systems" running inside of VMware
> on my notebook. With FreeBSD and Minix standing by. They are a happy
> little virtual network.
>
> But I think we're going a bit off topic here ...
>
>
> Jan
>
> --
> #======================================================================#
> # It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
> # Let's break this rule - forgive me. #
> #================================================== JanWieck@Yahoo.com #
>
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
>
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] Documentation quality WAS: interesting
@ 2003-06-24 15:01 Dennis Gearon <gearond@cvc.net>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Dennis Gearon @ 2003-06-24 15:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: nolan@celery.tssi.com; +Cc: Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>; 'Advocacy PostgreSQL' <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; 'PostgreSQL-general' <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
There are MANY browsers that come with Linux nowadays. the one mentioned, Lynx, is text based, so you don't even have to have X running, or installed.
nolan@celery.tssi.com wrote:
>>??? You can look at an HTML file directy with any browser. If you're SSH-ing
>>in to a remote system, use Lynx. Though I agree that providing both man and
>>html would be nicer.
>
>
> Try accessing a HTML file on a Linux system from a PC-based browser.
>
> Unless you have some kind of file sharing software running, which I
> generally don't because the only times I've ever been hacked into they
> got in through file sharing ports, you can't get there from here.
>
>
>>O'Reilly seems to be pretty hit-and-miss on this account. The Perl books are
>>well-indexed, but "SQL in a Nutshell" has *no* index, perhaps because
>>O'Reilly thought (wrongly) that it didn't need one because of the
>>dictionary-like format. The O'Reilly label is not a guarentee of quality,
>>just a general indicator.
>
>
> I think the 'Nutshell' books are a different breed of cat, none of them
> have ever had indexes worth mentioning.
>
>
>>Authors seldom do the indexes themselves, as indexing is a black art known to
>>few (and I have yet to see a really good index prepared by the author --
>
>
> I've been somewhat involved in three book projects (two textbooks and
> one rule book), in all three case the authors did their own index. Maybe
> I've just had a good run of luck on the O'Reilly books I've bought, or maybe
> I haven't bought as many of them in the last three or four years as I used
> to.
> --
> Mike Nolan
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to majordomo@postgresql.org
>
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] Documentation quality WAS: interesting
@ 2003-06-24 15:08 scott.marlowe <scott.marlowe@ihs.com>
parent: Jan Wieck <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: scott.marlowe @ 2003-06-24 15:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Jan Wieck <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>; +Cc: nolan@celery.tssi.com; Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>; 'Advocacy PostgreSQL' <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; 'PostgreSQL-general' <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
On Tue, 24 Jun 2003, Jan Wieck wrote:
> nolan@celery.tssi.com wrote:
> >> ??? You can look at an HTML file directy with any browser. If you're SSH-ing
> >> in to a remote system, use Lynx. Though I agree that providing both man and
> >> html would be nicer.
> >
> > Try accessing a HTML file on a Linux system from a PC-based browser.
> >
> > Unless you have some kind of file sharing software running, which I
> > generally don't because the only times I've ever been hacked into they
> > got in through file sharing ports, you can't get there from here.
>
> If you work on Unix systems remotely on a regular base, you should have
> a Unix system as a workstation too. That way you can use ssh(1) to
> forward your X11 connections through a secure channel.
>
> A "second" PC can be implemented as a memory+disk upgrade together with
> a VMware license.
I gave up on windows as a workable solution for interfacing to Unix
systems long ago. It's like driving a mini-cooper around a track full of
formula-1 cars.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] Documentation quality WAS: interesting
@ 2003-06-24 15:31 nolan@celery.tssi.com
parent: Arjen van der Meijden <acm@tweakers.net>
1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: nolan@celery.tssi.com @ 2003-06-24 15:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: acm@tweakers.net; +Cc: JanWieck@Yahoo.com; pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org; pgsql-general@postgresql.org
> There also ssh clients which support X11 forwarding on a windows machine
> and since there are X11 servers for windows...
> You don't necessarily need a unix workstation. Apart from that, a
> (tight)vnc server might be less bandwidth consuming.
I've always figured X11 was proof that you can never have a fast enough
CPU or enough memory. :-)
I've tried X11 across a DSL line, it gives a whole new meaning to the
word slow. I wound up creating a SSH tunnel to a browser inside the
client's firewall, a solution neither of us are entirely happy with,
as it may have some security concerns. We're probably setting up a VPN
connection, but that's hung up in accounting.
My point is that solutions which require other technology just to install
or use, whether that be a simple browser or X11, can be self-defeating.
If we're trying to sell ourselves to the PHP and/or MySQL communities,
needing or even recommending X11 isn't the direction we should be going.
--
Mike Nolan
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] Documentation quality WAS: interesting
@ 2003-06-24 15:39 scott.marlowe <scott.marlowe@ihs.com>
parent: nolan@celery.tssi.com
0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: scott.marlowe @ 2003-06-24 15:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: nolan@celery.tssi.com; +Cc: Arjen van der Meijden <acm@tweakers.net>; 'Jan Wieck' <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>; 'Advocacy PostgreSQL' <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; 'PostgreSQL-general' <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 nolan@celery.tssi.com wrote:
> > There also ssh clients which support X11 forwarding on a windows machine
> > and since there are X11 servers for windows...
> > You don't necessarily need a unix workstation. Apart from that, a
> > (tight)vnc server might be less bandwidth consuming.
>
> I've always figured X11 was proof that you can never have a fast enough
> CPU or enough memory. :-)
>
> I've tried X11 across a DSL line, it gives a whole new meaning to the
> word slow. I wound up creating a SSH tunnel to a browser inside the
> client's firewall, a solution neither of us are entirely happy with,
> as it may have some security concerns. We're probably setting up a VPN
> connection, but that's hung up in accounting.
>
> My point is that solutions which require other technology just to install
> or use, whether that be a simple browser or X11, can be self-defeating.
>
> If we're trying to sell ourselves to the PHP and/or MySQL communities,
> needing or even recommending X11 isn't the direction we should be going.
No argument there. It would be nice to have a standard text formatted set
of docs for users who need a lowest common denominator type setup.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] Documentation quality WAS: interesting
@ 2003-06-24 15:47 Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
parent: Tim Hawkins <tim@timhawkins.co.uk>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Josh Berkus @ 2003-06-24 15:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Tim Hawkins <tim@timhawkins.co.uk>; Jan Wieck <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>; Arjen van der Meijden <acm@tweakers.net>; +Cc: nolan@celery.tssi.com; 'Advocacy PostgreSQL' <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; 'PostgreSQL-general' <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
Folks,
Can I propose that we move this thread to PGSQL-DOCS? And that you all join
PGSQL-DOCS? I really would like to see more people formally involved in
writing documentation for PostgreSQL, and will work hard to make it easier
for people to contribute.
--
Josh Berkus
Aglio Database Solutions
San Francisco
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] Documentation quality WAS: interesting
@ 2003-06-24 16:40 Reuben D. Budiardja <techlist@voyager.phys.utk.edu>
parent: Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
0 siblings, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Reuben D. Budiardja @ 2003-06-24 16:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>; +Cc: 'Advocacy PostgreSQL' <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; 'PostgreSQL-general' <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
On Tuesday 24 June 2003 11:47 am, Josh Berkus wrote:
> Folks,
>
> Can I propose that we move this thread to PGSQL-DOCS? And that you all
> join PGSQL-DOCS? I really would like to see more people formally
> involved in writing documentation for PostgreSQL, and will work hard to
> make it easier for people to contribute.
Agreed. I am starting a list of what can/need to be indexed on pgsql docs site
as I'm working to build a new site with pgsql as a backend. I think Tom Lane
suggested that.. I would like to know where I can send the list. It'll
probably somekind of a work in progress. So if everyone else can contribute,
it'll be so much faster. Probably a semi-automated system for handling those
lists?
RDB
--
Reuben D. Budiardja
Department of Physics and Astronomy
The University of Tennessee, Knoxville, TN
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^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] [pgsql-advocacy] Documentation quality WAS: interesting
@ 2003-06-24 16:57 nolan@celery.tssi.com
parent: Reuben D. Budiardja <techlist@voyager.phys.utk.edu>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: nolan@celery.tssi.com @ 2003-06-24 16:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: techlist@voyager.phys.utk.edu; +Cc: pgsql-docs
> Agreed. I am starting a list of what can/need to be indexed on pgsql docs
> site as I'm working to build a new site with pgsql as a backend. I
> think Tom Lane > suggested that.. I would like to know where I can send
> the list. It'll probably somekind of a work in progress. So if everyone
> else can contribute, > it'll be so much faster. Probably a semi-automated
> system for handling those
> lists?
Assuming some kind of full-text search facility, an interesting idea would
be a self-updating index, one that keeps track of what search terms
are commonly used and adds those to the index automatically.
--
Mike Nolan
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] Documentation quality WAS: interesting
@ 2003-06-24 17:03 Rod Taylor <rbt@rbt.ca>
parent: Reuben D. Budiardja <techlist@voyager.phys.utk.edu>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Rod Taylor @ 2003-06-24 17:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: techlist@voyager.phys.utk.edu; +Cc: Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>; Advocacy PostgreSQL <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; PostgreSQL-general <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
On Tue, 2003-06-24 at 12:40, Reuben D. Budiardja wrote:
> On Tuesday 24 June 2003 11:47 am, Josh Berkus wrote:
> > Folks,
> >
> > Can I propose that we move this thread to PGSQL-DOCS? And that you all
> > join PGSQL-DOCS? I really would like to see more people formally
> > involved in writing documentation for PostgreSQL, and will work hard to
> > make it easier for people to contribute.
>
> Agreed. I am starting a list of what can/need to be indexed on pgsql docs site
> as I'm working to build a new site with pgsql as a backend. I think Tom Lane
> suggested that.. I would like to know where I can send the list. It'll
Best place to send the list / discuss it would be the pgsql-docs@
mailing list. If nobody else picks it up, I would be happy to integrate
the additional index entries -- but I won't be much of a source to
confirm they're correct or worth while.
--
Rod Taylor <rbt@rbt.ca>
PGP Key: http://www.rbt.ca/rbtpub.asc
Attachments:
signature.asc (application/pgp-signature, 186B) download
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 12+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2003-06-24 17:03 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 12+ messages (download: mbox mbox.gz follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2003-06-24 13:29 ` Jan Wieck <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>
2003-06-24 13:53 ` Arjen van der Meijden <acm@tweakers.net>
2003-06-24 14:22 ` Jan Wieck <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>
2003-06-24 14:54 ` Tim Hawkins <tim@timhawkins.co.uk>
2003-06-24 15:47 ` Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-24 16:40 ` Reuben D. Budiardja <techlist@voyager.phys.utk.edu>
2003-06-24 16:57 ` nolan@celery.tssi.com
2003-06-24 17:03 ` Rod Taylor <rbt@rbt.ca>
2003-06-24 15:31 ` nolan@celery.tssi.com
2003-06-24 15:39 ` scott.marlowe <scott.marlowe@ihs.com>
2003-06-24 15:08 ` scott.marlowe <scott.marlowe@ihs.com>
2003-06-24 15:01 ` Dennis Gearon <gearond@cvc.net>
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