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* First mention option for Postgres
@ 2007-10-26 20:25 Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
2007-10-26 20:32 ` Re: First mention option for Postgres Andrew Sullivan <ajs@crankycanuck.ca>
2007-10-26 20:34 ` Re: [DOCS] First mention option for Postgres Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us>
2007-10-26 20:35 ` Re: First mention option for Postgres Dave Page <dpage@postgresql.org>
2007-10-26 20:46 ` Re: First mention option for Postgres Marc G. Fournier <scrappy@hub.org>
2007-10-26 21:47 ` Re: First mention option for Postgres Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
0 siblings, 5 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Joshua D. Drake @ 2007-10-26 20:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org
Hello,
I am sure we are all long bored with this thread (on both sides) so I
thought I would offer a compromise. When dealing with long documents it
is quite common to see something like this:
PostgreSQL hereafter referred to as Postgres
I propose that we could have the FAQ and the Docs do the same thing.
The very first mention in these documents will same something to the
effect of:
PostgreSQL hereafter referred to as Postgres, is the kick butt database
of the planet and the dolphin that can't swim doesn't even compare.
My proposal is not suggesting in *any* way that we change
the following:
The official project name, which is PostgreSQL
The domain name of the project, which is postgresql.org
Nor am I in anyway suggesting that we "promote" the name Postgres. We
should instead continue our focus on promoting our project which is
PostgreSQL and incorporates something much larger than just the
database which is nicknamed Postgres.
Bruce, would like this to happen for 8.3 Final. If he is willing to do
the work required for the change, I see it as a reasonable compromise
based on the various opinions of the community members.
Sincerely,
Joshua D. Drake
--
=== The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. ===
Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564 24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240
PostgreSQL solutions since 1997 http://www.commandprompt.com/
UNIQUE NOT NULL
Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
PostgreSQL Replication: http://www.commandprompt.com/products/
Attachments:
signature.asc (application/pgp-signature, 188B) download
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: First mention option for Postgres
2007-10-26 20:25 First mention option for Postgres Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
@ 2007-10-26 20:32 ` Andrew Sullivan <ajs@crankycanuck.ca>
4 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Andrew Sullivan @ 2007-10-26 20:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org
On Fri, Oct 26, 2007 at 01:25:09PM -0700, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> PostgreSQL hereafter referred to as Postgres
> I propose that we could have the FAQ and the Docs do the same thing.
> The very first mention in these documents will same something to the
I think there's nothing wrong with doing it in the FAQ. It's
consistent with what the FAQ already says, and in any case it's what
people have been doing informally for years. As I've suggested
before (and as others have), I think doing it in formal documentation
and such like without a longer-term plan for communications is a bad
idea. But I will cheerfully shut up about it no matter what is
decided, especially since I'm not doing any of the work.
A
--
Andrew Sullivan | ajs@crankycanuck.ca
The very definition of "news" is "something that hardly ever happens."
--Bruce Schneier
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: [DOCS] First mention option for Postgres
2007-10-26 20:25 First mention option for Postgres Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
@ 2007-10-26 20:34 ` Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us>
4 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Bruce Momjian @ 2007-10-26 20:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>; +Cc: pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org
100% agree.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joshua D. Drake wrote:
-- Start of PGP signed section.
> Hello,
>
> I am sure we are all long bored with this thread (on both sides) so I
> thought I would offer a compromise. When dealing with long documents it
> is quite common to see something like this:
>
> PostgreSQL hereafter referred to as Postgres
>
> I propose that we could have the FAQ and the Docs do the same thing.
> The very first mention in these documents will same something to the
> effect of:
>
> PostgreSQL hereafter referred to as Postgres, is the kick butt database
> of the planet and the dolphin that can't swim doesn't even compare.
>
> My proposal is not suggesting in *any* way that we change
> the following:
>
> The official project name, which is PostgreSQL
> The domain name of the project, which is postgresql.org
>
> Nor am I in anyway suggesting that we "promote" the name Postgres. We
> should instead continue our focus on promoting our project which is
> PostgreSQL and incorporates something much larger than just the
> database which is nicknamed Postgres.
>
> Bruce, would like this to happen for 8.3 Final. If he is willing to do
> the work required for the change, I see it as a reasonable compromise
> based on the various opinions of the community members.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Joshua D. Drake
>
>
> --
>
> === The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. ===
> Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564 24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240
> PostgreSQL solutions since 1997 http://www.commandprompt.com/
> UNIQUE NOT NULL
> Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
> PostgreSQL Replication: http://www.commandprompt.com/products/
>
-- End of PGP section, PGP failed!
--
Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://postgres.enterprisedb.com
+ If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: First mention option for Postgres
2007-10-26 20:25 First mention option for Postgres Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
@ 2007-10-26 20:35 ` Dave Page <dpage@postgresql.org>
4 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Dave Page @ 2007-10-26 20:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>; +Cc: pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org
Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am sure we are all long bored with this thread (on both sides) so I
> thought I would offer a compromise. When dealing with long documents it
> is quite common to see something like this:
>
> PostgreSQL hereafter referred to as Postgres
>
> I propose that we could have the FAQ and the Docs do the same thing.
> The very first mention in these documents will same something to the
> effect of:
>
> PostgreSQL hereafter referred to as Postgres, is the kick butt database
> of the planet and the dolphin that can't swim doesn't even compare.
>
> My proposal is not suggesting in *any* way that we change
> the following:
>
> The official project name, which is PostgreSQL
> The domain name of the project, which is postgresql.org
>
> Nor am I in anyway suggesting that we "promote" the name Postgres. We
> should instead continue our focus on promoting our project which is
> PostgreSQL and incorporates something much larger than just the
> database which is nicknamed Postgres.
>
> Bruce, would like this to happen for 8.3 Final. If he is willing to do
> the work required for the change, I see it as a reasonable compromise
> based on the various opinions of the community members.
I'm happy with that.
/D
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: First mention option for Postgres
2007-10-26 20:25 First mention option for Postgres Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
@ 2007-10-26 20:46 ` Marc G. Fournier <scrappy@hub.org>
2007-10-26 20:54 ` Re: First mention option for Postgres Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
4 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Marc G. Fournier @ 2007-10-26 20:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>; pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
- --On Friday, October 26, 2007 13:25:09 -0700 "Joshua D. Drake"
<jd@commandprompt.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am sure we are all long bored with this thread (on both sides) so I
> thought I would offer a compromise. When dealing with long documents it
> is quite common to see something like this:
>
> PostgreSQL hereafter referred to as Postgres
>
> I propose that we could have the FAQ and the Docs do the same thing.
> The very first mention in these documents will same something to the
> effect of:
>
> PostgreSQL hereafter referred to as Postgres, is the kick butt database
> of the planet and the dolphin that can't swim doesn't even compare.
>
> My proposal is not suggesting in *any* way that we change
> the following:
>
> The official project name, which is PostgreSQL
> The domain name of the project, which is postgresql.org
>
> Nor am I in anyway suggesting that we "promote" the name Postgres.
If every word in the documentation *except* the very first one states
'Postgres', isn't that "promoting" it? You've just relegated the word
"PostgreSQL" to a footnote as far as the documentation itself is concerned ...
and for what exactly? To save 2 bytes per occurance?
> We
> should instead continue our focus on promoting our project which is
> PostgreSQL
If you are going to promote the name "PostgreSQL", then it should be used on
*everything* official, not just as a leader into the documentation ...
- ----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email . scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org
Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664
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^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: First mention option for Postgres
2007-10-26 20:25 First mention option for Postgres Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
2007-10-26 20:46 ` Re: First mention option for Postgres Marc G. Fournier <scrappy@hub.org>
@ 2007-10-26 20:54 ` Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
2007-10-26 21:00 ` Re: First mention option for Postgres Marc G. Fournier <scrappy@hub.org>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Joshua D. Drake @ 2007-10-26 20:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Marc G. Fournier <scrappy@hub.org>; +Cc: pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org
On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 17:46:31 -0300
"Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy@hub.org> wrote:
> > We
> > should instead continue our focus on promoting our project which is
> > PostgreSQL
>
> If you are going to promote the name "PostgreSQL", then it should be
> used on *everything* official, not just as a leader into the
> documentation ...
I am Joshua D. Drake also known as jd@commandprompt.com and linuxpoet.
Guess which one gets the most hits on Google, is my Legal name?
Now guess which one is used the most in common conversation?
Joshua D. Drake
>
> - ----
> Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services
> (http://www.hub.org) Email .
> scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org
> Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664
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>
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> KXqdiEoL7+8mcDtSDma/fkE=
> =spu2
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
--
=== The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. ===
Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564 24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240
PostgreSQL solutions since 1997 http://www.commandprompt.com/
UNIQUE NOT NULL
Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
PostgreSQL Replication: http://www.commandprompt.com/products/
Attachments:
signature.asc (application/pgp-signature, 188B) download
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: First mention option for Postgres
2007-10-26 20:25 First mention option for Postgres Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
2007-10-26 20:46 ` Re: First mention option for Postgres Marc G. Fournier <scrappy@hub.org>
2007-10-26 20:54 ` Re: First mention option for Postgres Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
@ 2007-10-26 21:00 ` Marc G. Fournier <scrappy@hub.org>
2007-10-26 21:03 ` Re: First mention option for Postgres Marc G. Fournier <scrappy@hub.org>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Marc G. Fournier @ 2007-10-26 21:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>; +Cc: pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
- --On Friday, October 26, 2007 13:54:43 -0700 "Joshua D. Drake"
<jd@commandprompt.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 17:46:31 -0300
> "Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy@hub.org> wrote:
>
>
>> > We
>> > should instead continue our focus on promoting our project which is
>> > PostgreSQL
>>
>> If you are going to promote the name "PostgreSQL", then it should be
>> used on *everything* official, not just as a leader into the
>> documentation ...
>
> I am Joshua D. Drake also known as jd@commandprompt.com and linuxpoet.
>
> Guess which one gets the most hits on Google, is my Legal name?
> Now guess which one is used the most in common conversation?
Which do you use on official documentation? Drivers license? Bank accounts?
Marriage license? Business documents?
You're proposal amounts to changing all of those over to 'linuxpoet', cause,
well, that's what everyone uses in conversation ...
- ----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email . scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org
Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664
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^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: First mention option for Postgres
2007-10-26 20:25 First mention option for Postgres Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
2007-10-26 20:46 ` Re: First mention option for Postgres Marc G. Fournier <scrappy@hub.org>
2007-10-26 20:54 ` Re: First mention option for Postgres Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
2007-10-26 21:00 ` Re: First mention option for Postgres Marc G. Fournier <scrappy@hub.org>
@ 2007-10-26 21:03 ` Marc G. Fournier <scrappy@hub.org>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Marc G. Fournier @ 2007-10-26 21:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>; +Cc: pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org
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- --On Friday, October 26, 2007 18:00:32 -0300 "Marc G. Fournier"
<scrappy@hub.org> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> You're proposal amounts to changing all of those over to 'linuxpoet', cause,
> well, that's what everyone uses in conversation ...
And, BTW ... your proposal, unless I miss read, was to do:
s/PostgreSQL/Postgres/g
on the docs, except for the first sentence ... that isn't even close to a
simple change of:
PostgreSQL, also known as Postgres, ...
Which *is* palatable ..
- ----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email . scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org
Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664
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^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: First mention option for Postgres
2007-10-26 20:25 First mention option for Postgres Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
@ 2007-10-26 21:47 ` Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
2007-10-26 22:27 ` Re: First mention option for Postgres Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
4 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Peter Eisentraut @ 2007-10-26 21:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org; +Cc: Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> is quite common to see something like this:
>
> PostgreSQL hereafter referred to as Postgres
This is usually because the first thing is very long and the second is
an obvious abbreviation. But that does not apply in this case.
Changing all subsequent mentions to Postgres would effectively change
the visible project name to Postgres or at least give undue promotion
of Postgres over PostgreSQL, both of which was rejected, and while
keeping everything around it as PostgreSQL, thus creating even more
confusion.
Any sort of proposal that relies on all users of the affected document
to start by reading and fully grasping the very first sentence will not
work.
--
Peter Eisentraut
http://developer.postgresql.org/~petere/
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: First mention option for Postgres
2007-10-26 20:25 First mention option for Postgres Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
2007-10-26 21:47 ` Re: First mention option for Postgres Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
@ 2007-10-26 22:27 ` Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
2007-10-26 22:46 ` Re: First mention option for Postgres Jonah H. Harris <jonah.harris@gmail.com>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Joshua D. Drake @ 2007-10-26 22:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>; +Cc: pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org
On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 23:47:57 +0200
Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net> wrote:
> Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> > is quite common to see something like this:
> >
> > PostgreSQL hereafter referred to as Postgres
>
> This is usually because the first thing is very long and the second
> is an obvious abbreviation. But that does not apply in this case.
>
> Changing all subsequent mentions to Postgres would effectively change
> the visible project name to Postgres or at least give undue promotion
> of Postgres over PostgreSQL, both of which was rejected, and while
> keeping everything around it as PostgreSQL, thus creating even more
> confusion.
>
> Any sort of proposal that relies on all users of the affected
> document to start by reading and fully grasping the very first
> sentence will not work.
>
Well as I said, it was a compromise. Everyone knows what my actual
opinion is. I guess we are back where we started.
Sincerely,
Joshua D. Drake
--
=== The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. ===
Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564 24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240
PostgreSQL solutions since 1997 http://www.commandprompt.com/
UNIQUE NOT NULL
Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
PostgreSQL Replication: http://www.commandprompt.com/products/
Attachments:
signature.asc (application/pgp-signature, 188B) download
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: First mention option for Postgres
2007-10-26 20:25 First mention option for Postgres Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
2007-10-26 21:47 ` Re: First mention option for Postgres Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
2007-10-26 22:27 ` Re: First mention option for Postgres Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
@ 2007-10-26 22:46 ` Jonah H. Harris <jonah.harris@gmail.com>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Jonah H. Harris @ 2007-10-26 22:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>; +Cc: Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>; pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org
On 10/26/07, Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com> wrote:
> Well as I said, it was a compromise. Everyone knows what my actual
> opinion is. I guess we are back where we started.
Looks like it.
--
Jonah H. Harris, Sr. Software Architect | phone: 732.331.1324
EnterpriseDB Corporation | fax: 732.331.1301
499 Thornall Street, 2nd Floor | jonah.harris@enterprisedb.com
Edison, NJ 08837 | http://www.enterprisedb.com/
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 11+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2007-10-26 22:46 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 11+ messages (download: mbox mbox.gz follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2007-10-26 20:25 First mention option for Postgres Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
2007-10-26 20:32 ` Andrew Sullivan <ajs@crankycanuck.ca>
2007-10-26 20:34 ` Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us>
2007-10-26 20:35 ` Dave Page <dpage@postgresql.org>
2007-10-26 20:46 ` Marc G. Fournier <scrappy@hub.org>
2007-10-26 20:54 ` Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
2007-10-26 21:00 ` Marc G. Fournier <scrappy@hub.org>
2007-10-26 21:03 ` Marc G. Fournier <scrappy@hub.org>
2007-10-26 21:47 ` Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
2007-10-26 22:27 ` Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
2007-10-26 22:46 ` Jonah H. Harris <jonah.harris@gmail.com>
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