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* interesting PHP/MySQL thread
@ 2003-06-21 17:50 Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 72+ messages in thread
From: Joe Conway @ 2003-06-21 17:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Advocacy (PostgreSQL) <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>
Interesting thread (php-dev subj: removing bundled libmysql):
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=php-dev&m=105621066832429&w=2
I particularly liked this post:
(http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=php-dev&m=105621207500778&w=2)
> There are rumours that MySQL AB does not want to provide a
> license exemption. The only consequence is that we should
> not steer users into their hands through simplified
> deployment.
>
> Actually, we should warn users of MySQL 3 that they won't be
> able to use new versions of MySQL under the same conditions,
> and that they should better look at Interbase/PostgreSQL.
>
> - Sascha
Joe
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
@ 2003-06-21 18:46 ` Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 72+ messages in thread
From: Josh Berkus @ 2003-06-21 18:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>; Advocacy (PostgreSQL) <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>
Joe,
> Interesting thread (php-dev subj: removing bundled libmysql):
> http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=php-dev&m=105621066832429&w=2
>
> I particularly liked this post:
> (http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=php-dev&m=105621207500778&w=2)
Boy, Monty's making friends all over, ain't he?
--
Josh Berkus
Aglio Database Solutions
San Francisco
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
@ 2003-06-22 21:59 ` Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-22 23:51 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Ned Lilly <ned@nedscape.com>
2003-06-23 01:20 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Jan Wieck <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>
2003-06-23 02:19 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2003-06-24 12:59 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Rory Campbell-Lange <rory@campbell-lange.net>
0 siblings, 4 replies; 72+ messages in thread
From: Bruce Momjian @ 2003-06-22 21:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>; +Cc: Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>; Advocacy (PostgreSQL) <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; PostgreSQL-general <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
Josh Berkus wrote:
> Joe,
>
> > Interesting thread (php-dev subj: removing bundled libmysql):
> > http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=php-dev&m=105621066832429&w=2
> >
> > I particularly liked this post:
> > (http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=php-dev&m=105621207500778&w=2)
>
> Boy, Monty's making friends all over, ain't he?
[ CC to general.]
[ MySQL changes client library to GPL.]
This is _very_ interesting, and not surprising. MySQL got users to
adopt MySQL, then they change the client license to get users to
purchase commercial, non-GPL licenses.
We need to use this opportunity to encourage PHP folks to switch to
PostgreSQL.
Notice the second URL mentions Interbase before PostgreSQL, which I find
curious.
--
Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road
+ Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
@ 2003-06-22 23:51 ` Ned Lilly <ned@nedscape.com>
3 siblings, 0 replies; 72+ messages in thread
From: Ned Lilly @ 2003-06-22 23:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Advocacy (PostgreSQL) <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; PostgreSQL-general <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
I think most people would agree that a large part of MySQL's audience has come from the bundling of MySQL libraries with PHP. Getting PostgreSQL to fill this void would be a very positive development.
If concerns about licensing are a major driver here, I would think that PostgreSQL's simple Berkeley license would compare very favorably to the tangled web of Interbase history of corporate intrigue and community forking.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Momjian" <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
To: "Josh Berkus" <josh@agliodbs.com>
Cc: "Joe Conway" <mail@joeconway.com>; "Advocacy (PostgreSQL)" <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; "PostgreSQL-general" <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 5:59 PM
Subject: Re: [GENERAL] [pgsql-advocacy] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
> Josh Berkus wrote:
> > Joe,
> >
> > > Interesting thread (php-dev subj: removing bundled libmysql):
> > > http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=php-dev&m=105621066832429&w=2
> > >
> > > I particularly liked this post:
> > > (http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=php-dev&m=105621207500778&w=2)
> >
> > Boy, Monty's making friends all over, ain't he?
>
> [ CC to general.]
>
> [ MySQL changes client library to GPL.]
>
> This is _very_ interesting, and not surprising. MySQL got users to
> adopt MySQL, then they change the client license to get users to
> purchase commercial, non-GPL licenses.
>
> We need to use this opportunity to encourage PHP folks to switch to
> PostgreSQL.
>
> Notice the second URL mentions Interbase before PostgreSQL, which I find
> curious.
>
> --
> Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
> pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001
> + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road
> + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?
>
> http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs/FAQ.html
>
>
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
@ 2003-06-23 01:20 ` Jan Wieck <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>
2003-06-23 02:54 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread nolan@celery.tssi.com
3 siblings, 1 reply; 72+ messages in thread
From: Jan Wieck @ 2003-06-23 01:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>; +Cc: Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>; Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>; Advocacy (PostgreSQL) <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; PostgreSQL-general <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
Bruce Momjian wrote:
> Josh Berkus wrote:
>> Joe,
>>
>> > Interesting thread (php-dev subj: removing bundled libmysql):
>> > http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=php-dev&m=105621066832429&w=2
>> >
>> > I particularly liked this post:
>> > (http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=php-dev&m=105621207500778&w=2)
>>
>> Boy, Monty's making friends all over, ain't he?
>
> [ CC to general.]
>
> [ MySQL changes client library to GPL.]
>
> This is _very_ interesting, and not surprising. MySQL got users to
> adopt MySQL, then they change the client license to get users to
> purchase commercial, non-GPL licenses.
>
> We need to use this opportunity to encourage PHP folks to switch to
> PostgreSQL.
Not surprising at all. And I think to make the big touting that MySQL
will continue to support open source and bla, bla, and then putting this
pretty severe change into the better hidden fine print is a good example
how $19.5M affect someones ethics.
To clearify, we need to encourage the PHP developer community to
encourage the PHP user community to switch to PostgreSQL.
What I'm worried about is exactly the people who adopted MySQL already.
The change to another database will be painfull no matter what. How many
of them will be willing to give another open source database a shot?
>
> Notice the second URL mentions Interbase before PostgreSQL, which I find
> curious.
That's simply alphabetical, don't try to interpret something into it.
Jan
--
#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me. #
#================================================== JanWieck@Yahoo.com #
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 01:20 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Jan Wieck <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>
@ 2003-06-23 02:54 ` nolan@celery.tssi.com
2003-06-23 03:03 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@postgresql.org>
2003-06-23 03:07 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Sean Chittenden <sean@chittenden.org>
2003-06-23 03:09 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Christopher Kings-Lynne <chriskl@familyhealth.com.au>
2003-06-23 09:25 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Arjen van der Meijden <acm@tweakers.net>
0 siblings, 4 replies; 72+ messages in thread
From: nolan@celery.tssi.com @ 2003-06-23 02:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: JanWieck@Yahoo.com; +Cc: pgman@candle.pha.pa.us; josh@agliodbs.com; mail@joeconway.com; pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org
> To clearify, we need to encourage the PHP developer community to
> encourage the PHP user community to switch to PostgreSQL.
>
> What I'm worried about is exactly the people who adopted MySQL already.
> The change to another database will be painfull no matter what. How many
> of them will be willing to give another open source database a shot?
If you assume that cost is one of the factors in going with an open
source database, what are their choices?
I know it took me a while to convince the CIO on the project I'm working
on that PostgreSQL was an improvement over MySQL. He's slowly coming
around as I start to show him what I am doing with the much richer
PostgreSQL feature set, but the performance of 7.3 compared to MySQL is
likely to remain a bit of a sticking point, because some queries are
taking 2-3 times as long on the same platform with the same data.
If the data entry folks, who are probably about to get a look at a portion
of the application that is still using the MySQL engine, get used to the
search times there, when we switch the whole thing over to PostgreSQL we
may get complaints if searches that used to take 3-4 seconds are now
taking 10-12 seconds. (Have others noticed that 7 seconds seems to be
a threshold point for users reacting to query times?)
MySQL also does case independent text comparisions, and apparently ONLY
case-insensitive comparisons.
--
Mike Nolan
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 01:20 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Jan Wieck <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>
2003-06-23 02:54 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread nolan@celery.tssi.com
@ 2003-06-23 03:03 ` The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@postgresql.org>
2003-06-23 03:29 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread nolan@celery.tssi.com
3 siblings, 1 reply; 72+ messages in thread
From: The Hermit Hacker @ 2003-06-23 03:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: nolan@celery.tssi.com; +Cc: Jan Wieck <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>; Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>; Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>; Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>; \"Advocacy PostgreSQL\" <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; PostgreSQL-general <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
On Sun, 22 Jun 2003 nolan@celery.tssi.com wrote:
> MySQL also does case independent text comparisions, and apparently ONLY
> case-insensitive comparisons.
Is this a good thing? Doesn't sound like it to me, but figured I'd ask :)
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 01:20 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Jan Wieck <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>
2003-06-23 02:54 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread nolan@celery.tssi.com
2003-06-23 03:03 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@postgresql.org>
@ 2003-06-23 03:29 ` nolan@celery.tssi.com
2003-06-23 04:54 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@postgresql.org>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 72+ messages in thread
From: nolan@celery.tssi.com @ 2003-06-23 03:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: scrappy@postgresql.org; +Cc: JanWieck@Yahoo.com; pgman@candle.pha.pa.us; josh@agliodbs.com; mail@joeconway.com; pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org
> On Sun, 22 Jun 2003 nolan@celery.tssi.com wrote:
>
> > MySQL also does case independent text comparisions, and apparently ONLY
> > case-insensitive comparisons.
>
> Is this a good thing? Doesn't sound like it to me, but figured I'd ask :)
I think it is a classic case of thinking 'small'. :-)
The CIO on the project I'm working on thinks it is a good thing,
but he's coming from a MySQL environment, which he only learned in the
last year or so and he does not appear to have a lot of familiarity with
larger databases.
Personally, if I want case insensitivity, I'll WRITE IT INTO THE CODE,
but I can see how some people might think that 'NOLAN', 'Nolan' and
'nolan' should be considered as the same data.
BTW, I just tested it and MySQL does case folding on values in unique
indexes, too. (Well, at least it is consistent.)
--
Mike Nolan
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 01:20 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Jan Wieck <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>
2003-06-23 02:54 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread nolan@celery.tssi.com
2003-06-23 03:03 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@postgresql.org>
2003-06-23 03:29 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread nolan@celery.tssi.com
@ 2003-06-23 04:54 ` The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@postgresql.org>
2003-06-23 05:33 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread nolan@celery.tssi.com
2003-06-23 14:23 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Lincoln Yeoh <lyeoh@pop.jaring.my>
0 siblings, 2 replies; 72+ messages in thread
From: The Hermit Hacker @ 2003-06-23 04:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: nolan@celery.tssi.com; +Cc: The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@postgresql.org>; Jan Wieck <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>; Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>; Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>; Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>; \"\"Advocacy PostgreSQL\"\" <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; PostgreSQL-general <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
On Sun, 22 Jun 2003 nolan@celery.tssi.com wrote:
> > On Sun, 22 Jun 2003 nolan@celery.tssi.com wrote:
> >
> > > MySQL also does case independent text comparisions, and apparently ONLY
> > > case-insensitive comparisons.
> >
> > Is this a good thing? Doesn't sound like it to me, but figured I'd ask :)
>
> I think it is a classic case of thinking 'small'. :-)
>
> The CIO on the project I'm working on thinks it is a good thing,
> but he's coming from a MySQL environment, which he only learned in the
> last year or so and he does not appear to have a lot of familiarity with
> larger databases.
>
> Personally, if I want case insensitivity, I'll WRITE IT INTO THE CODE,
> but I can see how some people might think that 'NOLAN', 'Nolan' and
> 'nolan' should be considered as the same data.
Oh, you mean like "SELECT * FROM table WHERE field ~* 'nolan';"?
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 01:20 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Jan Wieck <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>
2003-06-23 02:54 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread nolan@celery.tssi.com
2003-06-23 03:03 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@postgresql.org>
2003-06-23 03:29 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread nolan@celery.tssi.com
2003-06-23 04:54 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@postgresql.org>
@ 2003-06-23 05:33 ` nolan@celery.tssi.com
2003-06-23 05:44 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Sean Chittenden <sean@chittenden.org>
2003-06-23 05:54 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Christopher Kings-Lynne <chriskl@familyhealth.com.au>
2003-06-23 08:01 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Ian Barwick <barwick@gmx.net>
2003-06-23 11:33 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@postgresql.org>
2003-06-23 16:07 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Dennis Gearon <gearond@cvc.net>
2003-06-23 23:19 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
1 sibling, 6 replies; 72+ messages in thread
From: nolan@celery.tssi.com @ 2003-06-23 05:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: scrappy@postgresql.org; +Cc: scrappy@postgresql.org; JanWieck@Yahoo.com; pgman@candle.pha.pa.us; josh@agliodbs.com; mail@joeconway.com; pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org
> > Personally, if I want case insensitivity, I'll WRITE IT INTO THE CODE,
> > but I can see how some people might think that 'NOLAN', 'Nolan' and
> > 'nolan' should be considered as the same data.
>
> Oh, you mean like "SELECT * FROM table WHERE field ~* 'nolan';"?
No, I mean as in "SELECT * FROM table WHERE field = 'nolan';"
That will match values with any combination of upper and lower case
letters that fold to 'nolan': 'Nolan', 'NOLAN', etc.
Also, unlike PostgreSQL (at least in 7.3), if you define an index on
the column, mysql appears to use it for LIKE queries.
"SELECT * FROM table WHERE field LIKE 'nolan%';"
is very fast in mysql but not in 7.3, and even non-anchored LIKE searches
in mysql appear to be using the index.
"SELECT * FROM table WHERE field LIKE '%nolan%';"
executes considerably faster with an index on field than without one.
--
Mike Nolan
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 01:20 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Jan Wieck <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>
2003-06-23 02:54 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread nolan@celery.tssi.com
2003-06-23 03:03 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@postgresql.org>
2003-06-23 03:29 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread nolan@celery.tssi.com
2003-06-23 04:54 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@postgresql.org>
2003-06-23 05:33 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread nolan@celery.tssi.com
@ 2003-06-23 05:44 ` Sean Chittenden <sean@chittenden.org>
5 siblings, 0 replies; 72+ messages in thread
From: Sean Chittenden @ 2003-06-23 05:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: nolan@celery.tssi.com; +Cc: Advocacy PostgreSQL <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; PostgreSQL-general <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
[ Please stop cross posting emails between mailing lists! ]
> > > Personally, if I want case insensitivity, I'll WRITE IT INTO THE CODE,
> > > but I can see how some people might think that 'NOLAN', 'Nolan' and
> > > 'nolan' should be considered as the same data.
> >
> > Oh, you mean like "SELECT * FROM table WHERE field ~* 'nolan';"?
>
> No, I mean as in "SELECT * FROM table WHERE field = 'nolan';"
CREATE INDEX table_field_lower_idx ON table (LOWER(field));
VACUUM ANALYZE table;
SELECT * FROM table WHERE LOWER(field) = LOWER('nolan');
SELECT * FROM table WHERE field ILIKE 'nolan%';
ILIKE is case insensitive LIKE.
http://developer.postgresql.org/docs/postgres/functions-matching.html#FUNCTIONS-LIKE
This is likely an FAQ for new MySQL users at this point, or should be
if it's not.
If you are still having performance problems with the above solutions,
please send an EXPLAIN ANALYZE to the performance@ list so we can
figure out what's going on. -sc
--
Sean Chittenden
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 01:20 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Jan Wieck <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>
2003-06-23 02:54 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread nolan@celery.tssi.com
2003-06-23 03:03 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@postgresql.org>
2003-06-23 03:29 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread nolan@celery.tssi.com
2003-06-23 04:54 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@postgresql.org>
2003-06-23 05:33 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread nolan@celery.tssi.com
@ 2003-06-23 05:54 ` Christopher Kings-Lynne <chriskl@familyhealth.com.au>
5 siblings, 0 replies; 72+ messages in thread
From: Christopher Kings-Lynne @ 2003-06-23 05:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: nolan@celery.tssi.com; The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@postgresql.org>; +Cc: The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@postgresql.org>; Jan Wieck <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>; Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>; Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>; Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>; \"\"\"Advocacy PostgreSQL\"\"\" <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; PostgreSQL-general <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
> Also, unlike PostgreSQL (at least in 7.3), if you define an index on
> the column, mysql appears to use it for LIKE queries.
>
> "SELECT * FROM table WHERE field LIKE 'nolan%';"
Nonsense. PostgreSQL indexes such a thing quite happily. I've used that a
lot.
> is very fast in mysql but not in 7.3, and even non-anchored LIKE searches
> in mysql appear to be using the index.
>
> "SELECT * FROM table WHERE field LIKE '%nolan%';"
>
> executes considerably faster with an index on field than without one.
Hmmm - that seems iffy to me - have they invented a new field of index
theory?
Chris
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 01:20 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Jan Wieck <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>
2003-06-23 02:54 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread nolan@celery.tssi.com
2003-06-23 03:03 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@postgresql.org>
2003-06-23 03:29 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread nolan@celery.tssi.com
2003-06-23 04:54 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@postgresql.org>
2003-06-23 05:33 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread nolan@celery.tssi.com
@ 2003-06-23 08:01 ` Ian Barwick <barwick@gmx.net>
5 siblings, 0 replies; 72+ messages in thread
From: Ian Barwick @ 2003-06-23 08:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: nolan@celery.tssi.com; scrappy@postgresql.org; +Cc: scrappy@postgresql.org; JanWieck@Yahoo.com; pgman@candle.pha.pa.us; josh@agliodbs.com; mail@joeconway.com; pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org
On Monday 23 June 2003 07:33, nolan@celery.tssi.com wrote:
> > > Personally, if I want case insensitivity, I'll WRITE IT INTO THE CODE,
> > > but I can see how some people might think that 'NOLAN', 'Nolan' and
> > > 'nolan' should be considered as the same data.
> >
> > Oh, you mean like "SELECT * FROM table WHERE field ~* 'nolan';"?
>
> No, I mean as in "SELECT * FROM table WHERE field = 'nolan';"
bad memories ... of website login system ... using MySQL ... returning
several results for a unique login / pw combination ...
To stop this behaviour in MySQL one needs to define CHAR and VARCHAR types
with a "BINARY" attribute, e.g.:
CREATE TABLE tbl (field VARCHAR(24) BINARY)
My fault though for not reading the manual attentively enough ;-).
-> http://www.mysql.com/doc/en/CHAR.html
Ian Barwick
barwick@gmx.net
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 01:20 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Jan Wieck <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>
2003-06-23 02:54 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread nolan@celery.tssi.com
2003-06-23 03:03 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@postgresql.org>
2003-06-23 03:29 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread nolan@celery.tssi.com
2003-06-23 04:54 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@postgresql.org>
2003-06-23 05:33 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread nolan@celery.tssi.com
@ 2003-06-23 11:33 ` The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@postgresql.org>
5 siblings, 0 replies; 72+ messages in thread
From: The Hermit Hacker @ 2003-06-23 11:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: nolan@celery.tssi.com; +Cc: The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@postgresql.org>; Jan Wieck <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>; Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>; Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>; Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>; \"\"\"Advocacy PostgreSQL\"\"\" <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; PostgreSQL-general <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 nolan@celery.tssi.com wrote:
> > > Personally, if I want case insensitivity, I'll WRITE IT INTO THE CODE,
> > > but I can see how some people might think that 'NOLAN', 'Nolan' and
> > > 'nolan' should be considered as the same data.
> >
> > Oh, you mean like "SELECT * FROM table WHERE field ~* 'nolan';"?
>
> No, I mean as in "SELECT * FROM table WHERE field = 'nolan';"
no, my point was wasn't that the same as what we do with ~*?
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 01:20 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Jan Wieck <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>
2003-06-23 02:54 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread nolan@celery.tssi.com
2003-06-23 03:03 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@postgresql.org>
2003-06-23 03:29 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread nolan@celery.tssi.com
2003-06-23 04:54 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@postgresql.org>
2003-06-23 05:33 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread nolan@celery.tssi.com
@ 2003-06-23 16:07 ` Dennis Gearon <gearond@cvc.net>
2003-06-23 16:41 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
5 siblings, 1 reply; 72+ messages in thread
From: Dennis Gearon @ 2003-06-23 16:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: nolan@celery.tssi.com; +Cc: The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@postgresql.org>; Jan Wieck <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>; Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>; Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>; Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>; Advocacy PostgreSQL <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; PostgreSQL-general <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
Looks like there's some parts of that that would make a good todo.
nolan@celery.tssi.com wrote:
>>>Personally, if I want case insensitivity, I'll WRITE IT INTO THE CODE,
>>>but I can see how some people might think that 'NOLAN', 'Nolan' and
>>>'nolan' should be considered as the same data.
>>
>>Oh, you mean like "SELECT * FROM table WHERE field ~* 'nolan';"?
>
>
> No, I mean as in "SELECT * FROM table WHERE field = 'nolan';"
>
> That will match values with any combination of upper and lower case
> letters that fold to 'nolan': 'Nolan', 'NOLAN', etc.
>
> Also, unlike PostgreSQL (at least in 7.3), if you define an index on
> the column, mysql appears to use it for LIKE queries.
>
> "SELECT * FROM table WHERE field LIKE 'nolan%';"
>
> is very fast in mysql but not in 7.3, and even non-anchored LIKE searches
> in mysql appear to be using the index.
>
> "SELECT * FROM table WHERE field LIKE '%nolan%';"
>
> executes considerably faster with an index on field than without one.
> --
> Mike Nolan
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives?
>
> http://archives.postgresql.org
>
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 01:20 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Jan Wieck <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>
2003-06-23 02:54 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread nolan@celery.tssi.com
2003-06-23 03:03 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@postgresql.org>
2003-06-23 03:29 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread nolan@celery.tssi.com
2003-06-23 04:54 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@postgresql.org>
2003-06-23 05:33 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread nolan@celery.tssi.com
2003-06-23 16:07 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Dennis Gearon <gearond@cvc.net>
@ 2003-06-23 16:41 ` Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 72+ messages in thread
From: Bruce Momjian @ 2003-06-23 16:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: gearond@cvc.net; +Cc: nolan@celery.tssi.com, The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@postgresql.org>; Jan Wieck <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>; Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>; Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>; Advocacy PostgreSQL <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; PostgreSQL-general <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
Dennis Gearon wrote:
> Looks like there's some parts of that that would make a good todo.
>
> nolan@celery.tssi.com wrote:
>
> >>>Personally, if I want case insensitivity, I'll WRITE IT INTO THE CODE,
> >>>but I can see how some people might think that 'NOLAN', 'Nolan' and
> >>>'nolan' should be considered as the same data.
> >>
> >>Oh, you mean like "SELECT * FROM table WHERE field ~* 'nolan';"?
> >
> >
> > No, I mean as in "SELECT * FROM table WHERE field = 'nolan';"
> >
> > That will match values with any combination of upper and lower case
> > letters that fold to 'nolan': 'Nolan', 'NOLAN', etc.
We require ~* syntax for that, or upper()/lower().
> > Also, unlike PostgreSQL (at least in 7.3), if you define an index on
> > the column, mysql appears to use it for LIKE queries.
> >
> > "SELECT * FROM table WHERE field LIKE 'nolan%';"
> >
> > is very fast in mysql but not in 7.3, and even non-anchored LIKE searches
> > in mysql appear to be using the index.
> >
> > "SELECT * FROM table WHERE field LIKE '%nolan%';"
> >
> > executes considerably faster with an index on field than without one.
I would love to know how they can use an index for a non-anchored query,
i.e. what string are they indexing?
--
Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road
+ Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 01:20 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Jan Wieck <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>
2003-06-23 02:54 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread nolan@celery.tssi.com
2003-06-23 03:03 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@postgresql.org>
2003-06-23 03:29 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread nolan@celery.tssi.com
2003-06-23 04:54 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@postgresql.org>
2003-06-23 05:33 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread nolan@celery.tssi.com
@ 2003-06-23 23:19 ` Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
5 siblings, 0 replies; 72+ messages in thread
From: Josh Berkus @ 2003-06-23 23:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: nolan@celery.tssi.com; scrappy@postgresql.org; +Cc: scrappy@postgresql.org; JanWieck@Yahoo.com; pgman@candle.pha.pa.us; mail@joeconway.com; pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org
Mike,
I'd be thrilled to answer all of your performance/indexing questions .... on
an appropriate list (PERFORMANCE or SQL).
--
-Josh Berkus
Aglio Database Solutions
San Francisco
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 01:20 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Jan Wieck <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>
2003-06-23 02:54 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread nolan@celery.tssi.com
2003-06-23 03:03 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@postgresql.org>
2003-06-23 03:29 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread nolan@celery.tssi.com
2003-06-23 04:54 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@postgresql.org>
@ 2003-06-23 14:23 ` Lincoln Yeoh <lyeoh@pop.jaring.my>
2003-06-23 12:21 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Jan Wieck <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>
2003-06-23 16:36 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Dennis Gearon <gearond@cvc.net>
1 sibling, 2 replies; 72+ messages in thread
From: Lincoln Yeoh @ 2003-06-23 14:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: nolan@celery.tssi.com; scrappy@postgresql.org; +Cc: scrappy@postgresql.org; JanWieck@Yahoo.com; pgman@candle.pha.pa.us; josh@agliodbs.com; mail@joeconway.com; pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org
At 12:33 AM 6/23/2003 -0500, nolan@celery.tssi.com wrote:
> >
> > Oh, you mean like "SELECT * FROM table WHERE field ~* 'nolan';"?
>
>No, I mean as in "SELECT * FROM table WHERE field = 'nolan';"
>
>That will match values with any combination of upper and lower case
>letters that fold to 'nolan': 'Nolan', 'NOLAN', etc.
For me that's a matter of taste. I prefer to use = for case sensitive and
lower(field)=lower('data') for case insensitive. I wonder if there is a
difference between using lower vs upper for case insensitivity but I've
never bothered to look deeply into it.
>Also, unlike PostgreSQL (at least in 7.3), if you define an index on
>the column, mysql appears to use it for LIKE queries.
>
> "SELECT * FROM table WHERE field LIKE 'nolan%';"
>
>is very fast in mysql but not in 7.3, and even non-anchored LIKE searches
>in mysql appear to be using the index.
The versions of Postgresql I've used since I can remember (e.g. at least
v6.5.3 some years ago) use indexes for anchored LIKE searches.
I vaguely recall some people having this "not using index" behaviour when
they are using various locales.
> "SELECT * FROM table WHERE field LIKE '%nolan%';"
>
>executes considerably faster with an index on field than without one.
I think MySQL wins in this one. Just wondering how they do it. And whether
it's a good idea to do it that way.
Regards,
Link.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 01:20 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Jan Wieck <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>
2003-06-23 02:54 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread nolan@celery.tssi.com
2003-06-23 03:03 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@postgresql.org>
2003-06-23 03:29 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread nolan@celery.tssi.com
2003-06-23 04:54 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@postgresql.org>
2003-06-23 14:23 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Lincoln Yeoh <lyeoh@pop.jaring.my>
@ 2003-06-23 12:21 ` Jan Wieck <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 72+ messages in thread
From: Jan Wieck @ 2003-06-23 12:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Lincoln Yeoh <lyeoh@pop.jaring.my>; +Cc: nolan@celery.tssi.com, The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@postgresql.org>; Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>; Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>; Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>; Advocacy PostgreSQL <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; PostgreSQL-general <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
Lincoln Yeoh wrote:
> At 12:33 AM 6/23/2003 -0500, nolan@celery.tssi.com wrote:
>> >
>> > Oh, you mean like "SELECT * FROM table WHERE field ~* 'nolan';"?
>>
>>No, I mean as in "SELECT * FROM table WHERE field = 'nolan';"
>>
>>That will match values with any combination of upper and lower case
>>letters that fold to 'nolan': 'Nolan', 'NOLAN', etc.
>
> For me that's a matter of taste. I prefer to use = for case sensitive and
> lower(field)=lower('data') for case insensitive. I wonder if there is a
> difference between using lower vs upper for case insensitivity but I've
> never bothered to look deeply into it.
In some character sets there might be. The German sz-ligature for
example has no upper case equivalent, and in turkish the upper cases of
i and y with two dots are exchanged.
I prefer your example too and since we have functional indexes, it
doesn't affect performance at all.
Jan
--
#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me. #
#================================================== JanWieck@Yahoo.com #
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 01:20 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Jan Wieck <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>
2003-06-23 02:54 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread nolan@celery.tssi.com
2003-06-23 03:03 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@postgresql.org>
2003-06-23 03:29 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread nolan@celery.tssi.com
2003-06-23 04:54 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@postgresql.org>
2003-06-23 14:23 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Lincoln Yeoh <lyeoh@pop.jaring.my>
@ 2003-06-23 16:36 ` Dennis Gearon <gearond@cvc.net>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 72+ messages in thread
From: Dennis Gearon @ 2003-06-23 16:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Lincoln Yeoh <lyeoh@pop.jaring.my>; +Cc: nolan@celery.tssi.com, The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@postgresql.org>; Jan Wieck <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>; Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>; Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>; Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>; Advocacy PostgreSQL <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; PostgreSQL-general <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
lower's probably faster, since most characters are lower already.
Lincoln Yeoh wrote:
> At 12:33 AM 6/23/2003 -0500, nolan@celery.tssi.com wrote:
>
>> >
>> > Oh, you mean like "SELECT * FROM table WHERE field ~* 'nolan';"?
>>
>> No, I mean as in "SELECT * FROM table WHERE field = 'nolan';"
>>
>> That will match values with any combination of upper and lower case
>> letters that fold to 'nolan': 'Nolan', 'NOLAN', etc.
>
>
> For me that's a matter of taste. I prefer to use = for case sensitive
> and lower(field)=lower('data') for case insensitive. I wonder if there
> is a difference between using lower vs upper for case insensitivity but
> I've never bothered to look deeply into it.
>
>
>> Also, unlike PostgreSQL (at least in 7.3), if you define an index on
>> the column, mysql appears to use it for LIKE queries.
>>
>> "SELECT * FROM table WHERE field LIKE 'nolan%';"
>>
>> is very fast in mysql but not in 7.3, and even non-anchored LIKE searches
>> in mysql appear to be using the index.
>
>
> The versions of Postgresql I've used since I can remember (e.g. at least
> v6.5.3 some years ago) use indexes for anchored LIKE searches.
>
> I vaguely recall some people having this "not using index" behaviour
> when they are using various locales.
>
>
>> "SELECT * FROM table WHERE field LIKE '%nolan%';"
>>
>> executes considerably faster with an index on field than without one.
>
>
> I think MySQL wins in this one. Just wondering how they do it. And
> whether it's a good idea to do it that way.
>
> Regards,
> Link.
>
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to majordomo@postgresql.org
>
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 01:20 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Jan Wieck <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>
2003-06-23 02:54 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread nolan@celery.tssi.com
@ 2003-06-23 03:07 ` Sean Chittenden <sean@chittenden.org>
2003-06-23 03:55 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread nolan@celery.tssi.com
2003-06-23 09:21 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Arjen van der Meijden <acm@tweakers.net>
3 siblings, 2 replies; 72+ messages in thread
From: Sean Chittenden @ 2003-06-23 03:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: nolan@celery.tssi.com; +Cc: Jan Wieck <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>; Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>; Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>; Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>; \"Advocacy PostgreSQL\" <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; PostgreSQL-general <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
> I know it took me a while to convince the CIO on the project I'm working
> on that PostgreSQL was an improvement over MySQL. He's slowly coming
> around as I start to show him what I am doing with the much richer
> PostgreSQL feature set, but the performance of 7.3 compared to MySQL is
> likely to remain a bit of a sticking point, because some queries are
> taking 2-3 times as long on the same platform with the same data.
>
> If the data entry folks, who are probably about to get a look at a portion
> of the application that is still using the MySQL engine, get used to the
> search times there, when we switch the whole thing over to PostgreSQL we
> may get complaints if searches that used to take 3-4 seconds are now
> taking 10-12 seconds. (Have others noticed that 7 seconds seems to be
> a threshold point for users reacting to query times?)
Whoa, something's not right. Could you please send along an EXPLAIN
ANALYZE after doing a VACUUM ANALYZE of your query that's taking 3-4x
longer? Something smells very strange here because my experience has
been quite the opposite... I can understand 0.05ms longer per
connection in setup overhead (fork() vs new thread) , but this seems
like way too much... I wonder if you couldn't benefit from the use of
a cursor if you're returning a large dataset. -sc
http://developer.postgresql.org/docs/postgres/sql-declare.html
http://developer.postgresql.org/docs/postgres/sql-fetch.html
http://developer.postgresql.org/docs/postgres/sql-close.html
--
Sean Chittenden
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 01:20 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Jan Wieck <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>
2003-06-23 02:54 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread nolan@celery.tssi.com
2003-06-23 03:07 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Sean Chittenden <sean@chittenden.org>
@ 2003-06-23 03:55 ` nolan@celery.tssi.com
2003-06-23 04:22 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Sean Chittenden <sean@chittenden.org>
2003-06-23 22:30 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
1 sibling, 2 replies; 72+ messages in thread
From: nolan@celery.tssi.com @ 2003-06-23 03:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: sean@chittenden.org; +Cc: JanWieck@Yahoo.com; pgman@candle.pha.pa.us; josh@agliodbs.com; mail@joeconway.com; pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org
> Whoa, something's not right. Could you please send along an EXPLAIN
> ANALYZE after doing a VACUUM ANALYZE of your query that's taking 3-4x
> longer?
As luck would have it, I just finished the latest 'emergency' part of
the project, so I may have a day or so to play with this before the
CIO figures out I'm done. :-)
I'm hoping this turns out to be a tuning issue, as I'm still very much
of a rookie at tuning PostgreSQL.
I'll see if I can work something up. Should this go to the general
list or somewhere else?
--
Mike Nolan
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 01:20 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Jan Wieck <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>
2003-06-23 02:54 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread nolan@celery.tssi.com
2003-06-23 03:07 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Sean Chittenden <sean@chittenden.org>
2003-06-23 03:55 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread nolan@celery.tssi.com
@ 2003-06-23 04:22 ` Sean Chittenden <sean@chittenden.org>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 72+ messages in thread
From: Sean Chittenden @ 2003-06-23 04:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: nolan@celery.tssi.com; +Cc: Advocacy PostgreSQL <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; PostgreSQL-general <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
> > Whoa, something's not right. Could you please send along an
> > EXPLAIN ANALYZE after doing a VACUUM ANALYZE of your query that's
> > taking 3-4x longer?
>
> As luck would have it, I just finished the latest 'emergency' part
> of the project, so I may have a day or so to play with this before
> the CIO figures out I'm done. :-)
>
> I'm hoping this turns out to be a tuning issue, as I'm still very
> much of a rookie at tuning PostgreSQL.
>
> I'll see if I can work something up. Should this go to the general
> list or somewhere else?
Definitely performance@. -sc
--
Sean Chittenden
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 01:20 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Jan Wieck <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>
2003-06-23 02:54 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread nolan@celery.tssi.com
2003-06-23 03:07 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Sean Chittenden <sean@chittenden.org>
2003-06-23 03:55 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread nolan@celery.tssi.com
@ 2003-06-23 22:30 ` Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 72+ messages in thread
From: Josh Berkus @ 2003-06-23 22:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: nolan@celery.tssi.com; sean@chittenden.org; +Cc: JanWieck@Yahoo.com; pgman@candle.pha.pa.us; mail@joeconway.com; pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org
Nolan,
> As luck would have it, I just finished the latest 'emergency' part of
> the project, so I may have a day or so to play with this before the
> CIO figures out I'm done. :-)
>
> I'm hoping this turns out to be a tuning issue, as I'm still very much
> of a rookie at tuning PostgreSQL.
>
> I'll see if I can work something up. Should this go to the general
> list or somewhere else?
Send it to PGSQL-PERFORMANCE. I'll be very surprised if we can't beat MySQL's
time; we usually can on anything but aggregates.
--
-Josh Berkus
Aglio Database Solutions
San Francisco
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 01:20 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Jan Wieck <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>
2003-06-23 02:54 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread nolan@celery.tssi.com
2003-06-23 03:07 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Sean Chittenden <sean@chittenden.org>
@ 2003-06-23 09:21 ` Arjen van der Meijden <acm@tweakers.net>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 72+ messages in thread
From: Arjen van der Meijden @ 2003-06-23 09:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 'Sean Chittenden' <sean@chittenden.org>; nolan@celery.tssi.com; +Cc: '\"Advocacy PostgreSQL\"' <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; 'PostgreSQL-general' <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
> Sean Chittenden wrote:
>
> Whoa, something's not right. Could you please send along an
> EXPLAIN ANALYZE after doing a VACUUM ANALYZE of your query
> that's taking 3-4x longer? Something smells very strange
> here because my experience has been quite the opposite... I
> can understand 0.05ms longer per connection in setup overhead
> (fork() vs new thread) , but this seems like way too much...
> I wonder if you couldn't benefit from the use of a cursor if
> you're returning a large dataset. -sc
>
Apparently it's hard to believe, but yes that's quite possible. And if
your query takes only 0.01ms than the 0.05 is quite a difference ;)
I've tested and compared both mysql and postgresql a few times and saw
both databases beat each other largely on performance.
If the query was "more complicated", postgresql is probably the winner.
But if it's a simple query (for instance a index-lookup) than mysql
beats postgres, yes 3-4x faster is very possible in such a case.
At least from my experience, but then again I'm not _that_ well educated
on the performance-tuning-options of postgres, I just improve the
sortmem and sharedmem and hope that's all to it. (actually, I left mysql
in more or less the default settings...)
There isn't any real documentation on the performance gains and losses
on all those options anyway, is there? So don't expect people to have
the best tuned database there is, that's relatively impossible if you
don't read this mailinglist 24/7 :)
Regards,
Arjen
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 01:20 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Jan Wieck <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>
2003-06-23 02:54 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread nolan@celery.tssi.com
@ 2003-06-23 03:09 ` Christopher Kings-Lynne <chriskl@familyhealth.com.au>
3 siblings, 0 replies; 72+ messages in thread
From: Christopher Kings-Lynne @ 2003-06-23 03:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: nolan@celery.tssi.com; Jan Wieck <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>; +Cc: Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>; Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>; Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>; \"Advocacy PostgreSQL\" <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; PostgreSQL-general <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
> on that PostgreSQL was an improvement over MySQL. He's slowly coming
> around as I start to show him what I am doing with the much richer
> PostgreSQL feature set, but the performance of 7.3 compared to MySQL is
> likely to remain a bit of a sticking point, because some queries are
> taking 2-3 times as long on the same platform with the same data.
The only conceivable reason for that is poor query optimisation on the part
of the database and query designers...
> If the data entry folks, who are probably about to get a look at a portion
> of the application that is still using the MySQL engine, get used to the
> search times there, when we switch the whole thing over to PostgreSQL we
> may get complaints if searches that used to take 3-4 seconds are now
> taking 10-12 seconds. (Have others noticed that 7 seconds seems to be
> a threshold point for users reacting to query times?)
Huh? Tsearch in postgresql's contrib dir is as fast as if not faster than
MySQL's FULLTEXT indexes in my experience... Don't tell me you're just
using LIKE comparisions? I have searches using tsearch over 30000 food
brands and decriptions that take about 100ms.
> MySQL also does case independent text comparisions, and apparently ONLY
> case-insensitive comparisons.
What do you mean 'independent test comparisons'?
Chris
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 01:20 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Jan Wieck <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>
2003-06-23 02:54 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread nolan@celery.tssi.com
@ 2003-06-23 09:25 ` Arjen van der Meijden <acm@tweakers.net>
3 siblings, 0 replies; 72+ messages in thread
From: Arjen van der Meijden @ 2003-06-23 09:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: nolan@celery.tssi.com; +Cc: '\"Advocacy PostgreSQL\"' <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; 'PostgreSQL-general' <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
> nolan@celery.tssi.com wrote:
> MySQL also does case independent text comparisions, and
> apparently ONLY case-insensitive comparisons.
It's not very clearly described in the manual. But if you either specify
your textual fields 'binary' or use some form of 'like ... binary' query
it'll compare them case-sensitive, (apart from the strcmp-functions).
And in the case of a binary textual field the indices are also
case-sensitive :)
Regards,
Arjen
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
@ 2003-06-23 02:19 ` Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2003-06-23 02:25 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Christopher Kings-Lynne <chriskl@familyhealth.com.au>
2003-06-23 03:22 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@dcc.uchile.cl>
2003-06-23 17:02 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Justin Clift <justin@postgresql.org>
2003-06-23 17:27 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Dan Langille <dan@langille.org>
2003-06-23 20:29 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Erik Price <eprice@ptc.com>
2003-06-23 22:50 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Chris Smith <csmith@squiz.net>
3 siblings, 6 replies; 72+ messages in thread
From: Tom Lane @ 2003-06-23 02:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>; +Cc: Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>; Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>; Advocacy (PostgreSQL) <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; PostgreSQL-general <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us> writes:
> Interesting thread (php-dev subj: removing bundled libmysql):
> http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=php-dev&m=105621066832429&w=2
Hoo boy. Did you catch the part about
>> and the MySQL 3.2.23
>> library can't connect to MySQL 4.1 servers, rendering it broken.
Backwards compatibility must not be a consideration over there...
> We need to use this opportunity to encourage PHP folks to switch to
> PostgreSQL.
Indeed. What can we do exactly?
regards, tom lane
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 02:19 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
@ 2003-06-23 02:25 ` Christopher Kings-Lynne <chriskl@familyhealth.com.au>
5 siblings, 0 replies; 72+ messages in thread
From: Christopher Kings-Lynne @ 2003-06-23 02:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>; Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>; +Cc: Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>; Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>; Advocacy (PostgreSQL) <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; PostgreSQL-general <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
> > We need to use this opportunity to encourage PHP folks to switch to
> > PostgreSQL.
>
> Indeed. What can we do exactly?
I think we need to use this opportunity to convince the PHP folks to level
the playing field, rather than playing favourites with ANY one database...
Chris
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 02:19 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
@ 2003-06-23 03:22 ` Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@dcc.uchile.cl>
2003-06-23 03:57 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2003-06-23 15:43 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Reuben D. Budiardja <techlist@voyager.phys.utk.edu>
5 siblings, 2 replies; 72+ messages in thread
From: Alvaro Herrera @ 2003-06-23 03:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>; +Cc: Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>; Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>; Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>; Advocacy (PostgreSQL) <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; PostgreSQL-general <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
On Sun, Jun 22, 2003 at 10:19:20PM -0400, Tom Lane wrote:
> Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us> writes:
> > Interesting thread (php-dev subj: removing bundled libmysql):
> > http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=php-dev&m=105621066832429&w=2
Note the comment on
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=php-dev&m=105624024116515&w=2 :
Georg Richter wrote:
> Unbelievable.
> Guess the postgres guys are licking their chops over this.
> > We need to use this opportunity to encourage PHP folks to switch to
> > PostgreSQL.
>
> Indeed. What can we do exactly?
Probably the Postgres client library (that'd be libpq) can be included
as part of the PHP distribution. With that, according to the thread,
the Postgres support could be built in by default. I can't find the PHP
license on their website though.
Better hurry. Sterling Hughes is proposing to enable SQlite support by
default; that move could be bad for the lobbying of activating Pg
support.
--
Alvaro Herrera (<alvherre[a]dcc.uchile.cl>)
"The Postgresql hackers have what I call a "NASA space shot" mentality.
Quite refreshing in a world of "weekend drag racer" developers."
(Scott Marlowe)
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 02:19 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2003-06-23 03:22 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@dcc.uchile.cl>
@ 2003-06-23 03:57 ` Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2003-06-23 04:04 ` Re: [pgsql-advocacy] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Richard Welty <rwelty@averillpark.net>
2003-06-23 04:46 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@dcc.uchile.cl>
2003-06-23 05:25 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Steve Lane <slane@moyergroup.com>
2003-06-23 20:27 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Erik Price <eprice@ptc.com>
1 sibling, 4 replies; 72+ messages in thread
From: Tom Lane @ 2003-06-23 03:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@dcc.uchile.cl>; +Cc: Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>; Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>; Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>; Advocacy (PostgreSQL) <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; PostgreSQL-general <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@dcc.uchile.cl> writes:
> Better hurry. Sterling Hughes is proposing to enable SQlite support by
> default; that move could be bad for the lobbying of activating Pg
> support.
SQlite? Sure, give it a try. (I was slightly astonished to compare
these two pages:
http://www.hwaci.com/sw/sqlite/omitted.html
http://www.hwaci.com/sw/sqlite/datatypes.html
At the very least, one would have to say that the author feels free
to define those parts of SQL he doesn't like as "not features". There
sure isn't anything on the former page to suggest that vast parts of
the SQL spec are being ignored per the latter page.)
SQlite is even less competition from our point of view than MySQL is
... if the PHP guys think their users will be satisfied with SQlite,
let them try it for awhile.
I'd be happy if PHP would adopt a database-neutral stance, ie, nothing
in particular bundled into their core distribution. That might not be
compatible with their project goals though. Anyone have a feeling about
how important it is to them to have bundled DB support? Maybe we could
talk them into bundling more than one DB interface --- if they put both
PG and SQlite support into their distro, that'd be fine with me too.
regards, tom lane
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [pgsql-advocacy] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 02:19 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2003-06-23 03:22 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@dcc.uchile.cl>
2003-06-23 03:57 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
@ 2003-06-23 04:04 ` Richard Welty <rwelty@averillpark.net>
3 siblings, 0 replies; 72+ messages in thread
From: Richard Welty @ 2003-06-23 04:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: PostgreSQL-general <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
On Sun, 22 Jun 2003 23:57:10 -0400 Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote:
> I'd be happy if PHP would adopt a database-neutral stance, ie, nothing
> in particular bundled into their core distribution. That might not be
> compatible with their project goals though. Anyone have a feeling about
> how important it is to them to have bundled DB support?
i'm not really a member of the "php community", but i have used it quite a
lot, and the database features are a key component, they're a big part of
why you use php. i'd think that having some db support bundled in their
core is very important to them.
richard
--
Richard Welty rwelty@averillpark.net
Averill Park Networking 518-573-7592
Unix, Linux, IP Network Engineering, Security
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 02:19 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2003-06-23 03:22 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@dcc.uchile.cl>
2003-06-23 03:57 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
@ 2003-06-23 04:46 ` Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@dcc.uchile.cl>
2003-06-23 15:48 ` Re: [pgsql-advocacy] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Reuben D. Budiardja <techlist@voyager.phys.utk.edu>
2003-06-27 15:52 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread DeJuan Jackson <djackson@speedfc.com>
3 siblings, 2 replies; 72+ messages in thread
From: Alvaro Herrera @ 2003-06-23 04:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>; +Cc: Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>; Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>; Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>; Advocacy (PostgreSQL) <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; PostgreSQL-general <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
On Sun, Jun 22, 2003 at 11:57:10PM -0400, Tom Lane wrote:
> Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@dcc.uchile.cl> writes:
> > Better hurry. Sterling Hughes is proposing to enable SQlite support by
> > default; that move could be bad for the lobbying of activating Pg
> > support.
>
> SQlite? Sure, give it a try.
Actually, I read the website right after I sent the email and I was...
"surprised." I am still wondering if it allows some kind of concurrent
access.
> (I was slightly astonished to compare
> these two pages:
> http://www.hwaci.com/sw/sqlite/omitted.html
> http://www.hwaci.com/sw/sqlite/datatypes.html
The omitted features I can understand. But his take on datatypes is
really simplistic (read: absurd.)
> I'd be happy if PHP would adopt a database-neutral stance, ie, nothing
> in particular bundled into their core distribution.
What probably won't do. If they are desperate enough to activate SQLite
by default, it means they want to have at least database support at all
times.
> Maybe we could talk them into bundling more than one DB interface ---
> if they put both PG and SQlite support into their distro, that'd be
> fine with me too.
Sure, because users are very likely to use Postgres if support is readily
available (and it is already installed by default or at least included
in most Linux distributions).
--
Alvaro Herrera (<alvherre[a]dcc.uchile.cl>)
"La persona que no querÃa pecar / estaba obligada a sentarse
en duras y empinadas sillas / desprovistas, por cierto
de blandos atenuantes"
(Patricio Vogel)
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [pgsql-advocacy] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 02:19 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2003-06-23 03:22 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@dcc.uchile.cl>
2003-06-23 03:57 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2003-06-23 04:46 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@dcc.uchile.cl>
@ 2003-06-23 15:48 ` Reuben D. Budiardja <techlist@voyager.phys.utk.edu>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 72+ messages in thread
From: Reuben D. Budiardja @ 2003-06-23 15:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pgsql-general@postgresql.org
On Monday 23 June 2003 12:46 am, Alvaro Herrera wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 22, 2003 at 11:57:10PM -0400, Tom Lane wrote:
> > Maybe we could talk them into bundling more than one DB interface ---
> > if they put both PG and SQlite support into their distro, that'd be
> > fine with me too.
>
> Sure, because users are very likely to use Postgres if support is readily
> available (and it is already installed by default or at least included
> in most Linux distributions).
AFAIK, if you choose to install "Database Server" in Redhat Linux, it will
install PostgreSQL, and have PHP supports PostgreSQL by default. IIRC, it
won't install MySQL by default, although the RPMs are included in the distro
and you can install it your self.
RDB
--
Reuben D. Budiardja
Department of Physics and Astronomy
The University of Tennessee, Knoxville, TN
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 02:19 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2003-06-23 03:22 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@dcc.uchile.cl>
2003-06-23 03:57 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2003-06-23 04:46 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@dcc.uchile.cl>
@ 2003-06-27 15:52 ` DeJuan Jackson <djackson@speedfc.com>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 72+ messages in thread
From: DeJuan Jackson @ 2003-06-27 15:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@dcc.uchile.cl>; +Cc: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>; Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>; Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>; Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>; Advocacy (PostgreSQL) <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; PostgreSQL-general <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
From the SQLite FAQ Item (7)
*
(7) Can multiple applications or multiple instances of the same
application access a single database file at the same time?*
Multiple processes can have the same database open at the same time.
Multiple processes can be doing a SELECT at the same time. But only one
process can be making changes to the database at once.
Alvaro Herrera wrote:
>Actually, I read the website right after I sent the email and I was...
>"surprised." I am still wondering if it allows some kind of concurrent
>access.
>
>
>
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 02:19 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2003-06-23 03:22 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@dcc.uchile.cl>
2003-06-23 03:57 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
@ 2003-06-23 05:25 ` Steve Lane <slane@moyergroup.com>
2003-06-24 02:58 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Matthew Nuzum <cobalt@bearfruit.org>
3 siblings, 1 reply; 72+ messages in thread
From: Steve Lane @ 2003-06-23 05:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Advocacy (PostgreSQL) <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; PostgreSQL-general <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
On 6/22/03 10:57 PM, "Tom Lane" <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote:
> Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@dcc.uchile.cl> writes:
>> Better hurry. Sterling Hughes is proposing to enable SQlite support by
>> default; that move could be bad for the lobbying of activating Pg
>> support.
>
> SQlite? Sure, give it a try. (I was slightly astonished to compare
> these two pages:
> http://www.hwaci.com/sw/sqlite/omitted.html
> http://www.hwaci.com/sw/sqlite/datatypes.html
> At the very least, one would have to say that the author feels free
> to define those parts of SQL he doesn't like as "not features". There
> sure isn't anything on the former page to suggest that vast parts of
> the SQL spec are being ignored per the latter page.)
>
> SQlite is even less competition from our point of view than MySQL is
> ... if the PHP guys think their users will be satisfied with SQlite,
> let them try it for awhile.
No, with all due respect, don't.
These battles aren't won by being a better product. They're won by being
used by more people. And generally speaking, one thing tends to win, whether
it's the best or not.
If you want to exploit this opportunity (which I fervently recommend) than
you should make a big push to have postgres be THE database for PHP. People
latch onto MySQL because it's joined at the hip with PHP. The way to replace
it in that position is, well, by replacing it. MySQL wins, in part, by
piggybacking on the ubiquity of PHP. Let's just replace it with Postgres in
that role, if possible.
>
> I'd be happy if PHP would adopt a database-neutral stance, ie, nothing
> in particular bundled into their core distribution. That might not be
> compatible with their project goals though. Anyone have a feeling about
> how important it is to them to have bundled DB support? Maybe we could
> talk them into bundling more than one DB interface --- if they put both
> PG and SQlite support into their distro, that'd be fine with me too.
Again, I think a bit of ruthlessness is called for here. You don't want to
coexist. You want to be the default, period.
I mean, assuming that IS what you want :-> It's certainly what I'd like to
see, as a heavy user of both PHP and Postgres.
I'd recommend a semi-formal approach of the Postgres core team to the PHP
core team, asking, in effect, what does the Postgres group need to do to get
pgsql bundled up tight with PHP. If there's discontent there, now's the time
to capitalize on it. Imagine this press release: "PHP team 'unbundles' MySQL
in favor of Postgres". Game over.
I'm trying to get lined up to give a talk on Postgres at the next PHPCon.
From what I understand, PHPers are eager to hear more about it.
This seems like a huge opportunity that should be seized with both hands
(heck, ALL available hands).
-- sgl
=======================================================
Steve Lane
Vice President
The Moyer Group
14 North Peoria St Suite 2H
Chicago, IL 60607
Voice: (312) 433-2421 Email: slane@moyergroup.com
Fax: (312) 850-3930 Web: http://www.moyergroup.com
=======================================================
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 02:19 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2003-06-23 03:22 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@dcc.uchile.cl>
2003-06-23 03:57 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2003-06-23 05:25 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Steve Lane <slane@moyergroup.com>
@ 2003-06-24 02:58 ` Matthew Nuzum <cobalt@bearfruit.org>
2003-06-24 03:09 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@postgresql.org>
2003-06-24 04:13 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-24 05:54 ` Re: [pgsql-advocacy] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tony Grant <tony@tgds.net>
0 siblings, 3 replies; 72+ messages in thread
From: Matthew Nuzum @ 2003-06-24 02:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 'Advocacy (PostgreSQL)' <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; 'PostgreSQL-general' <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steve Lane [mailto:slane@moyergroup.com]
> Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 1:25 AM
> To: Advocacy (PostgreSQL); PostgreSQL-general
> Subject: Re: [pgsql-advocacy] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
>
> On 6/22/03 10:57 PM, "Tom Lane" <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote:
>
>
> These battles aren't won by being a better product. They're won by being
> used by more people. And generally speaking, one thing tends to win,
> whether it's the best or not.
Sad but true...
>
> If you want to exploit this opportunity (which I fervently recommend) than
> you should make a big push to have postgres be THE database for PHP.
> People
> latch onto MySQL because it's joined at the hip with PHP. The way to
> replace
> it in that position is, well, by replacing it. MySQL wins, in part, by
> piggybacking on the ubiquity of PHP. Let's just replace it with Postgres
> in that role, if possible.
>
Can I also suggest updating the documentation... Adding more prominent links
to Bruce's online book, some simple "Get started with PostgreSQL" or maybe
"Using PostgreSQL and PHP" type tutorials.
My issues with the online (idoc and static) documentation is that it's hard
for me to find what I want because of the separation into different
"guides". The search feature is not very robust and I've gone so far as to
download the docs and index them with ht://dig to get better results.
The quality of the material is very good, so please don't get me wrong, I
just think it's hard to find stuff. Both PHP and MySQL have well laid out
docs, with PHP being the better of the two.
I too started doing php stuff because of the need to do a web front end for
a database. Prior to that I had no database experience at all and the
wealth of PHP/MySQL tutorials made it easy for me to learn both.
I hadn't even ever considered MySQL's lack of features as compared to higher
end databases until I'd read an article from Tim Perdue on phpbuilder.
A good candidate for a tutorial would be something that showed the use of
simple PHP and SQL but containing examples with a sub-select and maybe a
transaction.
I like Bruce's examples for procedures/UDFs, but adding some SRF examples
would be very useful.
Bruce also has some great trigger/view/rule stuff that could be highlighted
and possibly added to.
>
>
> =======================================================
> Steve Lane
>
> Vice President
> The Moyer Group
> 14 North Peoria St Suite 2H
> Chicago, IL 60607
>
> Voice: (312) 433-2421 Email: slane@moyergroup.com
> Fax: (312) 850-3930 Web: http://www.moyergroup.com
> =======================================================
>
--
Matthew Nuzum
www.bearfruit.org
cobalt@bearfruit.org
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 02:19 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2003-06-23 03:22 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@dcc.uchile.cl>
2003-06-23 03:57 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2003-06-23 05:25 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Steve Lane <slane@moyergroup.com>
2003-06-24 02:58 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Matthew Nuzum <cobalt@bearfruit.org>
@ 2003-06-24 03:09 ` The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@postgresql.org>
2003-06-24 04:23 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Dennis Gearon <gearond@cvc.net>
2 siblings, 1 reply; 72+ messages in thread
From: The Hermit Hacker @ 2003-06-24 03:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Matthew Nuzum <cobalt@bearfruit.org>; +Cc: 'Advocacy (PostgreSQL)' <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; PostgreSQL-general <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
On Mon, 23 Jun 2003, Matthew Nuzum wrote:
> The quality of the material is very good, so please don't get me wrong,
> I just think it's hard to find stuff. Both PHP and MySQL have well laid
> out docs, with PHP being the better of the two.
Like everything else with this project, having ppl volunteer to fix
deficiencies with the documentation is as important as improved testing or
new features ...
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 02:19 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2003-06-23 03:22 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@dcc.uchile.cl>
2003-06-23 03:57 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2003-06-23 05:25 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Steve Lane <slane@moyergroup.com>
2003-06-24 02:58 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Matthew Nuzum <cobalt@bearfruit.org>
2003-06-24 03:09 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@postgresql.org>
@ 2003-06-24 04:23 ` Dennis Gearon <gearond@cvc.net>
2003-06-24 05:07 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread nolan@celery.tssi.com
2003-06-24 07:41 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread culley harrelson <culley@fastmail.fm>
0 siblings, 2 replies; 72+ messages in thread
From: Dennis Gearon @ 2003-06-24 04:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@postgresql.org>; +Cc: Matthew Nuzum <cobalt@bearfruit.org>; 'Advocacy (PostgreSQL)' <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; PostgreSQL-general <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
so,
if Postgres were to have a manual like PHP's OLD manual(more next),
that would be a worthwhile contribution?
the new manuals seems to be drifting to using only GOOGLE listings.
MUCH less information on one page, not nearly as good search results as
the old one. I don't know why they are switching.
If google is going to do web searches for technical sites, it nees to
change the format.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 02:19 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2003-06-23 03:22 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@dcc.uchile.cl>
2003-06-23 03:57 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2003-06-23 05:25 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Steve Lane <slane@moyergroup.com>
2003-06-24 02:58 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Matthew Nuzum <cobalt@bearfruit.org>
2003-06-24 03:09 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@postgresql.org>
2003-06-24 04:23 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Dennis Gearon <gearond@cvc.net>
@ 2003-06-24 05:07 ` nolan@celery.tssi.com
2003-06-24 13:59 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
1 sibling, 1 reply; 72+ messages in thread
From: nolan@celery.tssi.com @ 2003-06-24 05:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: gearond@cvc.net; +Cc: scrappy@postgresql.org; cobalt@bearfruit.org; pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org
> the new manuals seems to be drifting to using only GOOGLE listings.
> MUCH less information on one page, not nearly as good search results as
> the old one. I don't know why they are switching.
I think I must be old-fashioned, or perhaps just getting old, I think
online manuals are moving in the direction of becoming much harder for
me to use. (I have yet to master the 'info' format that Linux has
gone to, for example.)
And my pet peeve of the month is software source distributions that
include the documentation ONLY in HTML, which is OK IF you have Apache
running on the system you're building the sources on and are willing to
make the documentation directory available to Apache, but otherwise
they're very hard to use.
And while i'm on the subject, the only book (hard copy) I've got on
PostgreSQL is the O'Reilly 'Practical PostgreSQL' book, now a bit dated,
which has one of the worst indexes I've seen in a computer manual in years.
It may be the worst index I've ever experienced in an O'Reilly book.
(Sorry if Worsley or Drake are reading this, but that's my opinion.)
The O'Reilly Reese/Yarger/King/Williams MySQL book has a much more
comprehensive index, 23 pages compared to 7 for Worsley/Drake. I know
that indexes are the last thing authors want to do (both literally and
figuratively), but a good index makes the rest of the book much better.
I've had a series of paper clips, bulldog clips and post-it notes marking
the sections I tend to reuse frequently, because the index doesn't get
you there. Most of the time I use the online manual, and I've got a
few pages that aren't obvious from the table of contents bookmarked for
the online manual, too.
--
Mike Nolan
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 02:19 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2003-06-23 03:22 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@dcc.uchile.cl>
2003-06-23 03:57 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2003-06-23 05:25 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Steve Lane <slane@moyergroup.com>
2003-06-24 02:58 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Matthew Nuzum <cobalt@bearfruit.org>
2003-06-24 03:09 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@postgresql.org>
2003-06-24 04:23 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Dennis Gearon <gearond@cvc.net>
2003-06-24 05:07 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread nolan@celery.tssi.com
@ 2003-06-24 13:59 ` Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 72+ messages in thread
From: Tom Lane @ 2003-06-24 13:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: nolan@celery.tssi.com; +Cc: gearond@cvc.net; scrappy@postgresql.org; cobalt@bearfruit.org; pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org
nolan@celery.tssi.com writes:
> And while i'm on the subject, the only book (hard copy) I've got on
> PostgreSQL is the O'Reilly 'Practical PostgreSQL' book, now a bit dated,
> which has one of the worst indexes I've seen in a computer manual in years.
> It may be the worst index I've ever experienced in an O'Reilly book.
> I've had a series of paper clips, bulldog clips and post-it notes marking
> the sections I tend to reuse frequently, because the index doesn't get
> you there. Most of the time I use the online manual, and I've got a
> few pages that aren't obvious from the table of contents bookmarked for
> the online manual, too.
The online manuals have an index. Could you write up a list of proposed
index additions for us? A few quick <indexentry> commands would be easy
enough to add to the doc sources --- the hard part is knowing what to
index.
regards, tom lane
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 02:19 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2003-06-23 03:22 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@dcc.uchile.cl>
2003-06-23 03:57 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2003-06-23 05:25 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Steve Lane <slane@moyergroup.com>
2003-06-24 02:58 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Matthew Nuzum <cobalt@bearfruit.org>
2003-06-24 03:09 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@postgresql.org>
2003-06-24 04:23 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Dennis Gearon <gearond@cvc.net>
@ 2003-06-24 07:41 ` culley harrelson <culley@fastmail.fm>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 72+ messages in thread
From: culley harrelson @ 2003-06-24 07:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org; +Cc: pgsql-general@postgresql.org
Dennis Gearon wrote:
> so,
> if Postgres were to have a manual like PHP's OLD manual(more next),
> that would be a worthwhile contribution?
>
> the new manuals seems to be drifting to using only GOOGLE listings.
> MUCH less information on one page, not nearly as good search results as
> the old one. I don't know why they are switching.
>
> If google is going to do web searches for technical sites, it nees to
> change the format.
I think they are having performance problems and they are using google
to shift the load...
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 02:19 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2003-06-23 03:22 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@dcc.uchile.cl>
2003-06-23 03:57 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2003-06-23 05:25 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Steve Lane <slane@moyergroup.com>
2003-06-24 02:58 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Matthew Nuzum <cobalt@bearfruit.org>
@ 2003-06-24 04:13 ` Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-24 11:01 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Justin Clift <justin@postgresql.org>
2 siblings, 1 reply; 72+ messages in thread
From: Josh Berkus @ 2003-06-24 04:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Matthew Nuzum <cobalt@bearfruit.org>; 'Advocacy (PostgreSQL)' <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; 'PostgreSQL-general' <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
Matt,
> The quality of the material is very good, so please don't get me wrong, I
> just think it's hard to find stuff. Both PHP and MySQL have well laid out
> docs, with PHP being the better of the two.
I certainly agree ... one of my goals (shared with some other people) is to
eventually migrate all of the *accessory* documentation (techdocs, etc.) to a
searchable system that's easy for non-programmers to contribute to and edit
(i.e. SGML and CVS not required).
Item #87 on Josh's ToDo list ...
--
Josh Berkus
Aglio Database Solutions
San Francisco
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 02:19 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2003-06-23 03:22 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@dcc.uchile.cl>
2003-06-23 03:57 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2003-06-23 05:25 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Steve Lane <slane@moyergroup.com>
2003-06-24 02:58 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Matthew Nuzum <cobalt@bearfruit.org>
2003-06-24 04:13 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
@ 2003-06-24 11:01 ` Justin Clift <justin@postgresql.org>
2003-06-24 15:42 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 72+ messages in thread
From: Justin Clift @ 2003-06-24 11:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>; +Cc: Matthew Nuzum <cobalt@bearfruit.org>; 'Advocacy (PostgreSQL)' <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; 'PostgreSQL-general' <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
Josh Berkus wrote:
> Matt,
>
>
>>The quality of the material is very good, so please don't get me wrong, I
>>just think it's hard to find stuff. Both PHP and MySQL have well laid out
>>docs, with PHP being the better of the two.
>
>
> I certainly agree ... one of my goals (shared with some other people) is to
> eventually migrate all of the *accessory* documentation (techdocs, etc.) to a
> searchable system that's easy for non-programmers to contribute to and edit
> (i.e. SGML and CVS not required).
Yep. The present Techdocs site is kind of unmaintained, and the Plone
area isn't being worked on either presently (lack of time).
Finally got Bricolage installed on a system here at work to play around
with. Reckon Josh'll be interested in that...
:-)
Regards and best wishes,
Justin Clift
> Item #87 on Josh's ToDo list ...
>
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 02:19 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2003-06-23 03:22 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@dcc.uchile.cl>
2003-06-23 03:57 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2003-06-23 05:25 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Steve Lane <slane@moyergroup.com>
2003-06-24 02:58 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Matthew Nuzum <cobalt@bearfruit.org>
2003-06-24 04:13 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-24 11:01 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Justin Clift <justin@postgresql.org>
@ 2003-06-24 15:42 ` Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 72+ messages in thread
From: Josh Berkus @ 2003-06-24 15:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Justin Clift <justin@postgresql.org>; +Cc: Matthew Nuzum <cobalt@bearfruit.org>; 'Advocacy (PostgreSQL)' <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; 'PostgreSQL-general' <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
Justin,
> Yep. The present Techdocs site is kind of unmaintained, and the Plone
> area isn't being worked on either presently (lack of time).
Yeah. Thanks for installing Plone -- it gave me the chance to find out I
didn't like it. <grin>
> Finally got Bricolage installed on a system here at work to play around
> with. Reckon Josh'll be interested in that...
Really, Elein and I are going to build a Bric system for techdocs, Any Day Now
...
--
Josh Berkus
Aglio Database Solutions
San Francisco
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [pgsql-advocacy] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 02:19 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2003-06-23 03:22 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@dcc.uchile.cl>
2003-06-23 03:57 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2003-06-23 05:25 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Steve Lane <slane@moyergroup.com>
2003-06-24 02:58 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Matthew Nuzum <cobalt@bearfruit.org>
@ 2003-06-24 05:54 ` Tony Grant <tony@tgds.net>
2 siblings, 0 replies; 72+ messages in thread
From: Tony Grant @ 2003-06-24 05:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Matthew Nuzum <cobalt@bearfruit.org>; +Cc: 'PostgreSQL-general' <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
On Tue, 2003-06-24 at 04:58, Matthew Nuzum wrote:
> I too started doing php stuff because of the need to do a web front end for
> a database. Prior to that I had no database experience at all and the
> wealth of PHP/MySQL tutorials made it easy for me to learn both.
Then there are those of us who don't use PHP and don't think that it is
the right choice for enterprise class database front ends...
The force of PostgreSQL is that you have the right to choose the front
end for webapps. I do not think that it is a good idea to tie just one
to the database. PHP does not have a very good image when it comes to
stability or security for example.
It may be better marketing to say "you can use PostgreSQL with Zope,
Tcl/tk, Python, JSP or even PHP". Rather than "you _HAVE_ to use PHP as
a front end if you want to run MySQL because, if you want to use
anything else, tough..."
Cheers
Tony Grant
--
www.tgds.net Library management software toolkit,
redhat linux on Sony Vaio C1XD,
Dreamweaver MX with Tomcat and PostgreSQL
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 02:19 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2003-06-23 03:22 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@dcc.uchile.cl>
2003-06-23 03:57 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
@ 2003-06-23 20:27 ` Erik Price <eprice@ptc.com>
2003-06-24 01:00 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Jan Wieck <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>
3 siblings, 1 reply; 72+ messages in thread
From: Erik Price @ 2003-06-23 20:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>; +Cc: Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@dcc.uchile.cl>; Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>; Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>; Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>; Advocacy (PostgreSQL) <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; PostgreSQL-general <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
Tom Lane wrote:
> I'd be happy if PHP would adopt a database-neutral stance, ie, nothing
> in particular bundled into their core distribution. That might not be
> compatible with their project goals though. Anyone have a feeling about
> how important it is to them to have bundled DB support? Maybe we could
> talk them into bundling more than one DB interface --- if they put both
> PG and SQlite support into their distro, that'd be fine with me too.
On that note, last I read, MySQL is planning to offer PHP as a language
for writing stored procedures when the features is made available in the
5.0 release.
Erik
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 02:19 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2003-06-23 03:22 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@dcc.uchile.cl>
2003-06-23 03:57 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2003-06-23 20:27 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Erik Price <eprice@ptc.com>
@ 2003-06-24 01:00 ` Jan Wieck <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 72+ messages in thread
From: Jan Wieck @ 2003-06-24 01:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Erik Price <eprice@ptc.com>; +Cc: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>; Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@dcc.uchile.cl>; Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>; Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>; Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>; Advocacy (PostgreSQL) <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; PostgreSQL-general <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
Erik Price wrote:
>
> Tom Lane wrote:
>
>> I'd be happy if PHP would adopt a database-neutral stance, ie, nothing
>> in particular bundled into their core distribution. That might not be
>> compatible with their project goals though. Anyone have a feeling about
>> how important it is to them to have bundled DB support? Maybe we could
>> talk them into bundling more than one DB interface --- if they put both
>> PG and SQlite support into their distro, that'd be fine with me too.
>
> On that note, last I read, MySQL is planning to offer PHP as a language
> for writing stored procedures when the features is made available in the
> 5.0 release.
On that note, last I read, MySQL is planning to develop a completely new
enterprise level database system that will be named MySQL again (for
confusions sake) and include code from what's known so far as SAPDB.
My question is, will MySQL 5.0 be based on MySQL 4.x and include code
taken from SAPDB, will it be based on SAPDB with code snippets the other
way around or will it be started from scratch and include one or the
other piece from both?
And, if MySQL 5.0 *might* not be based on MySQL 4.x, what happens to
that codebase? Will the current MySQL core development team continue to
add all the promised features to the old product line, or will the
existing users have to migrate to a completely different MySQL system
anyway?
Note that we have seen that sort of "redo from scratch" before.
Microsoft SQL Server is a really reliable database system after they got
rid of the old crap, so it's not a bad decision per se. And if you don't
play Crimson Skies on your database server, the Win2K + SQLServer combo
makes a pretty decent production system. It's just that Microsoft had
the "paying" user base that justifies to write useful conversion tools
and that the old code base wasn't "that" extreme about violating
standards. The future MySQL is supposed to support SAP's application
platform, so it has to fail crash-me in order to be a little bit more
spec compliant.
Jan
--
#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me. #
#================================================== JanWieck@Yahoo.com #
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 02:19 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2003-06-23 03:22 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@dcc.uchile.cl>
@ 2003-06-23 15:43 ` Reuben D. Budiardja <techlist@voyager.phys.utk.edu>
2003-06-23 16:55 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread scott.marlowe <scott.marlowe@ihs.com>
1 sibling, 1 reply; 72+ messages in thread
From: Reuben D. Budiardja @ 2003-06-23 15:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Advocacy (PostgreSQL) <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; PostgreSQL-general <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
On Sunday 22 June 2003 11:22 pm, Alvaro Herrera wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 22, 2003 at 10:19:20PM -0400, Tom Lane wrote:
> > Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us> writes:
> > > Interesting thread (php-dev subj: removing bundled libmysql):
> > > http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=php-dev&m=105621066832429&w=2
>
> Note the comment on
> http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=php-dev&m=105624024116515&w=2 :
>
> Georg Richter wrote:
> > Unbelievable.
> > Guess the postgres guys are licking their chops over this.
> >
> > > We need to use this opportunity to encourage PHP folks to switch to
> > > PostgreSQL.
> >
> > Indeed. What can we do exactly?
>
> Probably the Postgres client library (that'd be libpq) can be included
> as part of the PHP distribution. With that, according to the thread,
> the Postgres support could be built in by default. I can't find the PHP
> license on their website though.
I don't quite understand this. I thought PostgreSQL library _is_ included with
PHP distribution. All I needed to do to compile is put --with-pgsql in
configuring php.
--
Reuben D. Budiardja
Department of Physics and Astronomy
The University of Tennessee, Knoxville, TN
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 02:19 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2003-06-23 03:22 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@dcc.uchile.cl>
2003-06-23 15:43 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Reuben D. Budiardja <techlist@voyager.phys.utk.edu>
@ 2003-06-23 16:55 ` scott.marlowe <scott.marlowe@ihs.com>
2003-06-23 17:19 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Sean Chittenden <sean@chittenden.org>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 72+ messages in thread
From: scott.marlowe @ 2003-06-23 16:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Reuben D. Budiardja <techlist@voyager.phys.utk.edu>; +Cc: Advocacy (PostgreSQL) <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; PostgreSQL-general <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
On Mon, 23 Jun 2003, Reuben D. Budiardja wrote:
> On Sunday 22 June 2003 11:22 pm, Alvaro Herrera wrote:
> > On Sun, Jun 22, 2003 at 10:19:20PM -0400, Tom Lane wrote:
> > > Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us> writes:
> > > > Interesting thread (php-dev subj: removing bundled libmysql):
> > > > http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=php-dev&m=105621066832429&w=2
> >
> > Note the comment on
> > http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=php-dev&m=105624024116515&w=2 :
> >
> > Georg Richter wrote:
> > > Unbelievable.
> > > Guess the postgres guys are licking their chops over this.
> > >
> > > > We need to use this opportunity to encourage PHP folks to switch to
> > > > PostgreSQL.
> > >
> > > Indeed. What can we do exactly?
> >
> > Probably the Postgres client library (that'd be libpq) can be included
> > as part of the PHP distribution. With that, according to the thread,
> > the Postgres support could be built in by default. I can't find the PHP
> > license on their website though.
>
> I don't quite understand this. I thought PostgreSQL library _is_ included with
> PHP distribution. All I needed to do to compile is put --with-pgsql in
> configuring php.
With PHP, when you type --with-pgsql it looks for the libs that postgresql
installed for connection. With the way MySQL support was installed, the
connection lib files were actually in the PHP source tree, and it by
default didn't use the ones installed by MySQL.
Note that this could actually cause issues if you compiled Apache with the
right setup to support mysql database authentication and it used the
installed mysql libs and php used its built in libs and they were
different versions you'd have a version of apache / PHP that would crash
randomly.
For this reason and many others, it is considered a bad design decision to
have included the connect libs in the PHP's source tree. It basically
made it easier for junior sys admins to shoot themselves in the foot.
:-)
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 02:19 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2003-06-23 03:22 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@dcc.uchile.cl>
2003-06-23 15:43 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Reuben D. Budiardja <techlist@voyager.phys.utk.edu>
2003-06-23 16:55 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread scott.marlowe <scott.marlowe@ihs.com>
@ 2003-06-23 17:19 ` Sean Chittenden <sean@chittenden.org>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 72+ messages in thread
From: Sean Chittenden @ 2003-06-23 17:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: scott.marlowe <scott.marlowe@ihs.com>; +Cc: Advocacy (PostgreSQL) <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>
[ killing cross posting between general@ and advocacy@ ]
> For this reason and many others, it is considered a bad design
> decision to have included the connect libs in the PHP's source tree.
> It basically made it easier for junior sys admins to shoot
> themselves in the foot. :-)
Or for Jr. Admins at www virtual hosting ISPs to setup PHP pizza boxes
without having to install PostgreSQL. PostgreSQL needs a
--client-only option to ./configure to be competitive in terms of cost
of installation in that dept. -sc
--
Sean Chittenden
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 02:19 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
@ 2003-06-23 17:02 ` Justin Clift <justin@postgresql.org>
2003-06-23 17:23 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread scott.marlowe <scott.marlowe@ihs.com>
2003-06-23 18:07 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Dennis Gearon <gearond@cvc.net>
5 siblings, 2 replies; 72+ messages in thread
From: Justin Clift @ 2003-06-23 17:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>; +Cc: Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>; Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>; Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>; Advocacy (PostgreSQL) <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; PostgreSQL-general <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
Tom Lane wrote:
<snip>
>>We need to use this opportunity to encourage PHP folks to switch to
>>PostgreSQL.
>
> Indeed. What can we do exactly?
Hmmm... something along the lines of:
"PostgreSQL v7.4 released, including enhanced MySQL->PostgreSQL
migration tools".
Would make for an interesting move... not playing friendly at all.
Muaaa Haaaa Haaaa
;->
Regards and best wishes,
Justin Clift
> regards, tom lane
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate
> subscribe-nomail command to majordomo@postgresql.org so that your
> message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 02:19 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2003-06-23 17:02 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Justin Clift <justin@postgresql.org>
@ 2003-06-23 17:23 ` scott.marlowe <scott.marlowe@ihs.com>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 72+ messages in thread
From: scott.marlowe @ 2003-06-23 17:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Justin Clift <justin@postgresql.org>; +Cc: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>; Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>; Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>; Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>; Advocacy (PostgreSQL) <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; PostgreSQL-general <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
On Tue, 24 Jun 2003, Justin Clift wrote:
> Tom Lane wrote:
> <snip>
> >>We need to use this opportunity to encourage PHP folks to switch to
> >>PostgreSQL.
> >
> > Indeed. What can we do exactly?
>
> Hmmm... something along the lines of:
>
> "PostgreSQL v7.4 released, including enhanced MySQL->PostgreSQL
> migration tools".
>
> Would make for an interesting move... not playing friendly at all.
>
> Muaaa Haaaa Haaaa
Postgresql, busily keeping our hands out of your wallet since (insert date
here.) :-)
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 02:19 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2003-06-23 17:02 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Justin Clift <justin@postgresql.org>
@ 2003-06-23 18:07 ` Dennis Gearon <gearond@cvc.net>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 72+ messages in thread
From: Dennis Gearon @ 2003-06-23 18:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Justin Clift <justin@postgresql.org>; +Cc: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>; Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>; Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>; Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>; Advocacy (PostgreSQL) <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; PostgreSQL-general <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
Hey!
You stole my favorite laugh!
My second favortie one is 'Nya, Nya, Nyaaaa' (Snidely Whiplash of Bulwinkle fame)
Justin Clift wrote:
> Tom Lane wrote:
> <snip>
>
>>> We need to use this opportunity to encourage PHP folks to switch to
>>> PostgreSQL.
>>
>>
>> Indeed. What can we do exactly?
>
>
> Hmmm... something along the lines of:
>
> "PostgreSQL v7.4 released, including enhanced MySQL->PostgreSQL
> migration tools".
>
> Would make for an interesting move... not playing friendly at all.
>
> Muaaa Haaaa Haaaa
>
> ;->
>
> Regards and best wishes,
>
> Justin Clift
>
>> regards, tom lane
>>
>> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
>> TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate
>> subscribe-nomail command to majordomo@postgresql.org so that your
>> message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 9: the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your
> joining column's datatypes do not match
>
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 02:19 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
@ 2003-06-23 17:27 ` Dan Langille <dan@langille.org>
2003-06-23 17:39 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread scott.marlowe <scott.marlowe@ihs.com>
5 siblings, 1 reply; 72+ messages in thread
From: Dan Langille @ 2003-06-23 17:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Justin Clift <justin@postgresql.org>; +Cc: Advocacy (PostgreSQL) <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; pgsql-general@postgresql.org
On 24 Jun 2003 at 1:02, Justin Clift wrote:
> "PostgreSQL v7.4 released, including enhanced MySQL->PostgreSQL
> migration tools".
On this very note, I'm attempting to migrate MySQL database to
PostgreSQL right now. I'm getting stuck on data such as this:
(155,'<HTML>tr -d \"\015\" < dosfile.txt\r\n</HTML>',155)
Where can I find this migration tool? The one I was using was pgAdmin
II via ODBC.
--
Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 02:19 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2003-06-23 17:27 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Dan Langille <dan@langille.org>
@ 2003-06-23 17:39 ` scott.marlowe <scott.marlowe@ihs.com>
2003-06-24 01:19 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@postgresql.org>
2003-06-24 01:46 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Dan Langille <dan@langille.org>
0 siblings, 2 replies; 72+ messages in thread
From: scott.marlowe @ 2003-06-23 17:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dan Langille <dan@langille.org>; +Cc: Justin Clift <justin@postgresql.org>; Advocacy (PostgreSQL) <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; pgsql-general@postgresql.org
On Mon, 23 Jun 2003, Dan Langille wrote:
> On 24 Jun 2003 at 1:02, Justin Clift wrote:
>
> > "PostgreSQL v7.4 released, including enhanced MySQL->PostgreSQL
> > migration tools".
>
> On this very note, I'm attempting to migrate MySQL database to
> PostgreSQL right now. I'm getting stuck on data such as this:
>
> (155,'<HTML>tr -d \"\015\" < dosfile.txt\r\n</HTML>',155)
>
> Where can I find this migration tool? The one I was using was pgAdmin
> II via ODBC.
It's in the contrib/mysql directory in the source file. the name of the
script is mysql2pgsql. Don't kow how well it will work, as I've never
migrated from MySQL to Postgresql myself.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 02:19 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2003-06-23 17:27 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Dan Langille <dan@langille.org>
2003-06-23 17:39 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread scott.marlowe <scott.marlowe@ihs.com>
@ 2003-06-24 01:19 ` The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@postgresql.org>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 72+ messages in thread
From: The Hermit Hacker @ 2003-06-24 01:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: scott.marlowe <scott.marlowe@ihs.com>; +Cc: Dan Langille <dan@langille.org>; Justin Clift <justin@postgresql.org>; Advocacy (PostgreSQL) <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; pgsql-general@postgresql.org
On Mon, 23 Jun 2003, scott.marlowe wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Jun 2003, Dan Langille wrote:
>
> > On 24 Jun 2003 at 1:02, Justin Clift wrote:
> >
> > > "PostgreSQL v7.4 released, including enhanced MySQL->PostgreSQL
> > > migration tools".
> >
> > On this very note, I'm attempting to migrate MySQL database to
> > PostgreSQL right now. I'm getting stuck on data such as this:
> >
> > (155,'<HTML>tr -d \"\015\" < dosfile.txt\r\n</HTML>',155)
> >
> > Where can I find this migration tool? The one I was using was pgAdmin
> > II via ODBC.
>
> It's in the contrib/mysql directory in the source file. the name of the
> script is mysql2pgsql. Don't kow how well it will work, as I've never
> migrated from MySQL to Postgresql myself.
But, if you happen to find problems, let us know so that we can strengthen
it before v7.4 goes out ... :)
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 02:19 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2003-06-23 17:27 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Dan Langille <dan@langille.org>
2003-06-23 17:39 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread scott.marlowe <scott.marlowe@ihs.com>
@ 2003-06-24 01:46 ` Dan Langille <dan@langille.org>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 72+ messages in thread
From: Dan Langille @ 2003-06-24 01:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@postgresql.org>; Dan Langille <dan@langille.org>; Justin Clift <justin@postgresql.org>; Advocacy (PostgreSQL) <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; pgsql-general@postgresql.org; +Cc: Dan Langille <dan@langille.org>; Justin Clift <justin@postgresql.org>; Advocacy (PostgreSQL) <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; pgsql-general@postgresql.org
On 23 Jun 2003 at 22:19, The Hermit Hacker wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Jun 2003, scott.marlowe wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 23 Jun 2003, Dan Langille wrote:
> >
> > > On 24 Jun 2003 at 1:02, Justin Clift wrote:
> > >
> > > > "PostgreSQL v7.4 released, including enhanced MySQL->PostgreSQL
> > > > migration tools".
> > >
> > > On this very note, I'm attempting to migrate MySQL database to
> > > PostgreSQL right now. I'm getting stuck on data such as this:
> > >
> > > (155,'<HTML>tr -d \"\015\" < dosfile.txt\r\n</HTML>',155)
> > >
> > > Where can I find this migration tool? The one I was using was pgAdmin
> > > II via ODBC.
> >
> > It's in the contrib/mysql directory in the source file. the name of the
> > script is mysql2pgsql. Don't kow how well it will work, as I've never
> > migrated from MySQL to Postgresql myself.
>
> But, if you happen to find problems, let us know so that we can strengthen
> it before v7.4 goes out ... :)
Well, for what it's worth, I only need to convert the data, the
tables will be created by the application.
background: I'm converted an installation of http://www.phorum.org/
from mysql to pg. I'd rather Phorum create the PG tables, and just
copy the data over. So far, the proof-of-concept has gone well.
--
Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 02:19 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
@ 2003-06-23 20:29 ` Erik Price <eprice@ptc.com>
5 siblings, 0 replies; 72+ messages in thread
From: Erik Price @ 2003-06-23 20:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>; +Cc: Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>; Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>; Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>; Advocacy (PostgreSQL) <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; PostgreSQL-general <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
Tom Lane wrote:
>
>>We need to use this opportunity to encourage PHP folks to switch to
>>PostgreSQL.
>
>
> Indeed. What can we do exactly?
Write a migration tutorial and post it to the major web development
sites (webmonkey, sitepoint.com, devshed.com, phpbuilder.com, etc).
That's where PHP users are most-influenced. These tutorials have
enabled so many people to get into server-side scripting, and most of
the tutorials use MySQL. (I speak as a former full-time PHP programmer
who did use MySQL for PHP app development, because that's how I learned it.)
And, to avoid the connotation of bias, whomever writes such a migration
tutorial might want to suggest using the PEAR:DB abstraction layer to
avoid migration hassles in the future. http://pear.php.net/
Erik
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 02:19 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
@ 2003-06-23 22:50 ` Chris Smith <csmith@squiz.net>
2003-06-23 22:59 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 23:20 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Chris Smith <csmith@squiz.net>
5 siblings, 2 replies; 72+ messages in thread
From: Chris Smith @ 2003-06-23 22:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org; PostgreSQL-general <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
In all this talk I haven't seen one post on the PHP-Dev mailing list about
getting PostgreSQL enabled by default.
If you want it on, you need to talk to them about it not amongst each other.
>Tom Lane wrote:
>
>>
>>>We need to use this opportunity to encourage PHP folks to switch to
>>>PostgreSQL.
>>
>>Indeed. What can we do exactly?
Chris.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 02:19 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2003-06-23 22:50 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Chris Smith <csmith@squiz.net>
@ 2003-06-23 22:59 ` Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-24 13:58 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Cornelia Boenigk <poppcorn@cornelia-boenigk.de>
1 sibling, 1 reply; 72+ messages in thread
From: Bruce Momjian @ 2003-06-23 22:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Chris Smith <csmith@squiz.net>; +Cc: pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org, PostgreSQL-general <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
OK, who is active in that community?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Smith wrote:
> In all this talk I haven't seen one post on the PHP-Dev mailing list about
> getting PostgreSQL enabled by default.
>
> If you want it on, you need to talk to them about it not amongst each other.
>
>
> >Tom Lane wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>>We need to use this opportunity to encourage PHP folks to switch to
> >>>PostgreSQL.
> >>
> >>Indeed. What can we do exactly?
>
> Chris.
>
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to majordomo@postgresql.org
>
--
Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road
+ Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 02:19 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2003-06-23 22:50 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Chris Smith <csmith@squiz.net>
2003-06-23 22:59 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
@ 2003-06-24 13:58 ` Cornelia Boenigk <poppcorn@cornelia-boenigk.de>
2003-06-24 14:42 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 72+ messages in thread
From: Cornelia Boenigk @ 2003-06-24 13:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org
Hi Bruce
> OK, who is active in that community?
You will see a lot of php-developers at LinuxTag to talk with ;-)
The PHP-PostgreSQL-extension is maintained by Yasuo Ohgaki. Aren't you
in
Japan? So maybe you could meet him? His email is yohgaki@php.net.
Regards
Conni
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 02:19 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2003-06-23 22:50 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Chris Smith <csmith@squiz.net>
2003-06-23 22:59 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-24 13:58 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Cornelia Boenigk <poppcorn@cornelia-boenigk.de>
@ 2003-06-24 14:42 ` Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 72+ messages in thread
From: Bruce Momjian @ 2003-06-24 14:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Cornelia Boenigk <poppcorn@cornelia-boenigk.de>; +Cc: pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org
Cornelia Boenigk wrote:
> Hi Bruce
>
> > OK, who is active in that community?
>
> You will see a lot of php-developers at LinuxTag to talk with ;-)
>
> The PHP-PostgreSQL-extension is maintained by Yasuo Ohgaki. Aren't you
> in
> Japan? So maybe you could meet him? His email is yohgaki@php.net.
No, I only visit Japan occasionally.
--
Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road
+ Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 02:19 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2003-06-23 22:50 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Chris Smith <csmith@squiz.net>
@ 2003-06-23 23:20 ` Chris Smith <csmith@squiz.net>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 72+ messages in thread
From: Chris Smith @ 2003-06-23 23:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>; +Cc: pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org
I can pose the questions to the PHP guys and respond as best I can.
I'll probably keep coming back here for answers so if that's no problem
then I can tentatively stick my hand up and do it.
At 06:59 PM 6/23/2003 -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote:
>OK, who is active in that community?
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Chris Smith wrote:
> > In all this talk I haven't seen one post on the PHP-Dev mailing list about
> > getting PostgreSQL enabled by default.
> >
> > If you want it on, you need to talk to them about it not amongst each
> other.
> >
> >
> > >Tom Lane wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >>>We need to use this opportunity to encourage PHP folks to switch to
> > >>>PostgreSQL.
> > >>
> > >>Indeed. What can we do exactly?
> >
> > Chris.
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> > TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to majordomo@postgresql.org
> >
>
>--
> Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
> pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001
> + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road
> + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073
>
>---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
>TIP 9: the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your
> joining column's datatypes do not match
Chris Smith
>> 92 Jarrett St Leichhardt, Sydney, NSW 2040 ...>
T: + 61 2 9568 6866
F: + 61 2 9568 6733
W: http://www.squiz.net/
.....>> Open Source - Own it - Squiz.net ...../>
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
@ 2003-06-24 12:59 ` Rory Campbell-Lange <rory@campbell-lange.net>
2003-06-25 10:04 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Justin Clift <justin@postgresql.org>
3 siblings, 1 reply; 72+ messages in thread
From: Rory Campbell-Lange @ 2003-06-24 12:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>; +Cc: Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>; Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>; Advocacy (PostgreSQL) <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; PostgreSQL-general <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
I'm a Postgres and PHP newbie. I'm having a great deal of success with
my latest development effort having moved most of the logic from a
perl/php logic 'core' to postgres using plpgsql functions. (Thanks for
all that help, Josh).
I have a few comments to make on the idea of introducing people, PHP
developers especially, to postgresql. I'm not commenting here on how
easy it is to use PHP with postgres (it was transparent for me using
Debian) or whether or not to advocate the use of advanced features to
general users. Rather, it appears to me, that the PHP/Postgres
documentation and feature set should be improved.
1) PHP Documentation
The postgresql "write up" in the PHP html documentation doesn't give
a very good picture of the capabilities of postgres. While the PHP
docs aren't obviously a good place to write up the benefits of
plpgsql functions, some mention should be made to help differentiate
between the capabilities of MySQL and Postgres.
PHP documents:
ref.pgsql.html; ref.mysql.html
The MySQL examples given for database specific functions are useful
and to the point. The page on most of the Postgres functions are
sketchy. (No error number in Postgres...)
PHP documents:
function.mysql-errno.html; function.pg-result-error.html
PHP/Postgres provides a set of predefined constants, eg
PGSQL_COMMAND_OK and PGSQL_FATAL_ERROR. The use and parameters of
these constants is not described. The latter appears to provide
inconsistent results under my PHP 4.2.3 install.
2) PHP<->Postgres bugs
Apart from the PGSQL_FATAL_ERROR problem above, it would be good to
find a more simple, PHP-like, approach to catch exceptions and the
like. At the moment I believe one has to do something like:
function test () {
$sql = "
SELECT
count(n_id) as number
FROM
people
";
ob_start();
$result = pg_exec ($this->conn, $sql);
$this->status = pg_result_status($result);
ob_end_clean();
$this->result_checker();
if ($this->error != 0) {
echo "An error occured.\n";
exit;
}
...
return $this;
}
function result_checker () {
// horrible code to check for postgres exceptions
// status numbers sometimes show up
// ghosts of PGSQL_FATAL_ERROR?
if (! isset($this->status) or
($this->status == 5 or $this->status == 7)) {
$this->error = 1;
// wierdly, this always works
$this->error_msg = pg_last_error($this->conn);
return 1;
} else {
return 0;
}
}
On 22/06/03, Bruce Momjian (pgman@candle.pha.pa.us) wrote:
> We need to use this opportunity to encourage PHP folks to switch to
> PostgreSQL.
--
Rory Campbell-Lange
<rory@campbell-lange.net>
<www.campbell-lange.net>
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-24 12:59 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Rory Campbell-Lange <rory@campbell-lange.net>
@ 2003-06-25 10:04 ` Justin Clift <justin@postgresql.org>
2003-07-31 11:56 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Rory Campbell-Lange <rory@campbell-lange.net>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 72+ messages in thread
From: Justin Clift @ 2003-06-25 10:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Rory Campbell-Lange <rory@campbell-lange.net>; +Cc: Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>; Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>; Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>; Advocacy (PostgreSQL) <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; PostgreSQL-general <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
Hi Rory,
Do you want to whip up an initial "improved" set of info to include in
the PHP docs as you're mentioning?
At least one of the PostgreSQL Community members (Conni) has write
access to the official PHP Docs repository and has volunteered to
commit improvements like this for us.
Regards and best wishes,
Justin Clift
Rory Campbell-Lange wrote:
> I'm a Postgres and PHP newbie. I'm having a great deal of success with
> my latest development effort having moved most of the logic from a
> perl/php logic 'core' to postgres using plpgsql functions. (Thanks for
> all that help, Josh).
>
> I have a few comments to make on the idea of introducing people, PHP
> developers especially, to postgresql. I'm not commenting here on how
> easy it is to use PHP with postgres (it was transparent for me using
> Debian) or whether or not to advocate the use of advanced features to
> general users. Rather, it appears to me, that the PHP/Postgres
> documentation and feature set should be improved.
>
> 1) PHP Documentation
>
> The postgresql "write up" in the PHP html documentation doesn't give
> a very good picture of the capabilities of postgres. While the PHP
> docs aren't obviously a good place to write up the benefits of
> plpgsql functions, some mention should be made to help differentiate
> between the capabilities of MySQL and Postgres.
>
> PHP documents:
> ref.pgsql.html; ref.mysql.html
>
> The MySQL examples given for database specific functions are useful
> and to the point. The page on most of the Postgres functions are
> sketchy. (No error number in Postgres...)
>
> PHP documents:
> function.mysql-errno.html; function.pg-result-error.html
>
> PHP/Postgres provides a set of predefined constants, eg
> PGSQL_COMMAND_OK and PGSQL_FATAL_ERROR. The use and parameters of
> these constants is not described. The latter appears to provide
> inconsistent results under my PHP 4.2.3 install.
>
> 2) PHP<->Postgres bugs
>
> Apart from the PGSQL_FATAL_ERROR problem above, it would be good to
> find a more simple, PHP-like, approach to catch exceptions and the
> like. At the moment I believe one has to do something like:
>
> function test () {
> $sql = "
> SELECT
> count(n_id) as number
> FROM
> people
> ";
>
> ob_start();
> $result = pg_exec ($this->conn, $sql);
> $this->status = pg_result_status($result);
> ob_end_clean();
>
> $this->result_checker();
> if ($this->error != 0) {
> echo "An error occured.\n";
> exit;
> }
> ...
> return $this;
> }
>
> function result_checker () {
> // horrible code to check for postgres exceptions
> // status numbers sometimes show up
> // ghosts of PGSQL_FATAL_ERROR?
> if (! isset($this->status) or
> ($this->status == 5 or $this->status == 7)) {
> $this->error = 1;
> // wierdly, this always works
> $this->error_msg = pg_last_error($this->conn);
> return 1;
> } else {
> return 0;
> }
> }
>
>
> On 22/06/03, Bruce Momjian (pgman@candle.pha.pa.us) wrote:
>
>>We need to use this opportunity to encourage PHP folks to switch to
>>PostgreSQL.
>
>
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-24 12:59 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Rory Campbell-Lange <rory@campbell-lange.net>
2003-06-25 10:04 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Justin Clift <justin@postgresql.org>
@ 2003-07-31 11:56 ` Rory Campbell-Lange <rory@campbell-lange.net>
2003-07-31 12:29 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Justin Clift <justin@postgresql.org>
2003-07-31 16:38 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-07-31 17:25 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Cornelia Boenigk <poppcorn@cornelia-boenigk.de>
0 siblings, 3 replies; 72+ messages in thread
From: Rory Campbell-Lange @ 2003-07-31 11:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Justin Clift <justin@postgresql.org>; +Cc: Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>; Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>; Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>; Advocacy (PostgreSQL) <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; Cornelia Boenigk <c@cornelia-boenigk.de>
Hi Justin
I'm writing to let you know that my availability to work on some new
documentation has moved somewhat, from now to the middle of August.
I have made contact with Connie (conversation noted at the end of this
mail) and it appears that work could usefully be done on providing
better examples and noting bugs on PHP postgres functions in the PHP
documentation.
I am happy to do this, and it might be the best way for me to contribute
to the Postgres advocacy initiative, particularly as I have little
experience of using MySQL and can hardly comment authoritatively on the
differences between the systems.
Another alternative is that I could write a newbie's gentle introduction
to using pl/pgsql. With Josh's initial encouragement I have recently
delivered a very successful project using Postgres functions.
Development speed was greatly assisted by providing consistent database
interfaces while the operations behind those interfaces could change.
The system uses a combination of php and postgres, so I could hit some
advocacy targets by describing the integration here!
I'd be grateful to know if one or other of these pieces of work are
desired/needed. Knowing who would review my work would also be useful.
Kind regards
Rory
On 25/06/03, Justin Clift (justin@postgresql.org) wrote:
> Do you want to whip up an initial "improved" set of info to include in
> the PHP docs as you're mentioning?
>
> At least one of the PostgreSQL Community members (Conni) has write
> access to the official PHP Docs repository and has volunteered to
> commit improvements like this for us.
> Rory Campbell-Lange wrote:
> >I'm a Postgres and PHP newbie. I'm having a great deal of success with
> >my latest development effort having moved most of the logic from a
> >perl/php logic 'core' to postgres using plpgsql functions. (Thanks for
> >all that help, Josh).
> >
> >I have a few comments to make on the idea of introducing people, PHP
> >developers especially, to postgresql. I'm not commenting here on how
> >easy it is to use PHP with postgres (it was transparent for me using
> >Debian) or whether or not to advocate the use of advanced features to
> >general users. Rather, it appears to me, that the PHP/Postgres
> >documentation and feature set should be improved.
> >
> >1) PHP Documentation
> >
> > The postgresql "write up" in the PHP html documentation doesn't give
> > a very good picture of the capabilities of postgres. While the PHP
> > docs aren't obviously a good place to write up the benefits of
> > plpgsql functions, some mention should be made to help differentiate
> > between the capabilities of MySQL and Postgres.
...
> >2) PHP<->Postgres bugs
> >
> > Apart from the PGSQL_FATAL_ERROR problem above, it would be good to
> > find a more simple, PHP-like, approach to catch exceptions and the
> > like....
Conversation with Connie:
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 08:12:32 +0100
From: Rory Campbell-Lange <rory@campbell-lange.net>
To: Cornelia Boenigk <c@cornelia-boenigk.de>
Subject: Re: PostgreSQL - PHP manual
Thanks for your mail.
I hope to put together some suggestions at the end of July. I would be
very grateful if you would have a look at them to see if there is
anything useful there.
All the best!
Rory
On 30/06/03, Cornelia Boenigk (c@cornelia-boenigk.de) wrote:
> > Are you a contributor to the PostgreSQL/PHP
> > documentation?
> Something like that ;-)
> I am a member of the translation team but have write access to the
> whole repository.
>
> > My comments come from my
> > perspective of trying to explain clearly the advantages of Postgres,
> > while retaining the technical nature of the documentation.
> I share your ideas ;-)
> However if you are going to read the php-manual I think the decision
> which database to use is done.
>
> > What sort of hint? ;)
> e.g. for the description of the predefined constants.
>
> > I would be very happy if any of this
> > work would benefit the PHP documentation.
> Well there are a lot of really poorly documented functions. To improve
> the manual it is fine to get some examples or experiences from users.
> Or even bugs ;-)
--
Rory Campbell-Lange
<rory@campbell-lange.net>
<www.campbell-lange.net>
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-24 12:59 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Rory Campbell-Lange <rory@campbell-lange.net>
2003-06-25 10:04 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Justin Clift <justin@postgresql.org>
2003-07-31 11:56 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Rory Campbell-Lange <rory@campbell-lange.net>
@ 2003-07-31 12:29 ` Justin Clift <justin@postgresql.org>
2003-07-31 14:40 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Cornelia Boenigk <c@cornelia-boenigk.de>
2 siblings, 1 reply; 72+ messages in thread
From: Justin Clift @ 2003-07-31 12:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Rory Campbell-Lange <rory@campbell-lange.net>; +Cc: Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>; Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>; Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>; Advocacy (PostgreSQL) <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; Cornelia Boenigk <c@cornelia-boenigk.de>
Hi Rory,
My feeling on this is that the most effective thing to do here would be to add information about PostgreSQL functions to the PHP manual, and - perhaps even more
importantly - to add information if possible to the PHP manual mentioning PostgreSQL in key places.
For one small example, in the "Getting Started"->"Installation"->"Unix/Solaris install" section/page it mentions:
"In addition, you will need to install (and possibly compile) any additional software specific to your configuration, such as Oracle or MySQL."
Updating small points like this to specifically mention PostgreSQL in the same place that others are mentioned should be affective advocacy/promotion to newbies
that read through these sections. i.e.:
"In addition, you will need to install (and possibly compile) any additional software specific to your configuration, such as Oracle, PostgreSQL or MySQL."
An area of the PHP manual that seems very MySQL specific is the "FAQ: Frequently Asked Questions"->"Database issues" page, where it goes into detail on how to
access MySQL from Windows. It would probably be worthwhile adapting that to also cover PostgreSQL properly too.
Perhaps doing a search for "MySQL" and/or "Oracle" and/or "SQL" in the existing PHP manual, then compiling a hit list of places where it will be effective to
add mention of PostgreSQL, then doing it, would be the way to go?
As another thought, maybe adding a "Using databases" section, with PostgreSQL examples, to the "Features" section of the PHP manual would be worthwhile too.
What do you think?
Regards and best wishes,
Justin Clift
Rory Campbell-Lange wrote:
> Hi Justin
>
> I'm writing to let you know that my availability to work on some new
> documentation has moved somewhat, from now to the middle of August.
>
> I have made contact with Connie (conversation noted at the end of this
> mail) and it appears that work could usefully be done on providing
> better examples and noting bugs on PHP postgres functions in the PHP
> documentation.
>
> I am happy to do this, and it might be the best way for me to contribute
> to the Postgres advocacy initiative, particularly as I have little
> experience of using MySQL and can hardly comment authoritatively on the
> differences between the systems.
>
> Another alternative is that I could write a newbie's gentle introduction
> to using pl/pgsql. With Josh's initial encouragement I have recently
> delivered a very successful project using Postgres functions.
> Development speed was greatly assisted by providing consistent database
> interfaces while the operations behind those interfaces could change.
> The system uses a combination of php and postgres, so I could hit some
> advocacy targets by describing the integration here!
>
> I'd be grateful to know if one or other of these pieces of work are
> desired/needed. Knowing who would review my work would also be useful.
>
> Kind regards
> Rory
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-24 12:59 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Rory Campbell-Lange <rory@campbell-lange.net>
2003-06-25 10:04 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Justin Clift <justin@postgresql.org>
2003-07-31 11:56 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Rory Campbell-Lange <rory@campbell-lange.net>
2003-07-31 12:29 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Justin Clift <justin@postgresql.org>
@ 2003-07-31 14:40 ` Cornelia Boenigk <c@cornelia-boenigk.de>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 72+ messages in thread
From: Cornelia Boenigk @ 2003-07-31 14:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Justin Clift <justin@postgresql.org>; Rory Campbell-Lange <rory@campbell-lange.net>; +Cc: Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>; Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>; Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>; Advocacy (PostgreSQL) <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>
Hi altogether
> My feeling on this is that the most effective thing to do here would
> be to add information about PostgreSQL functions to the PHP manual
Maybe PHP-Group doesn't allow this, because it is not the purpose of
the PHP manual.
> perhaps even more
> importantly - to add information if possible to the PHP manual
> mentioning PostgreSQL in key places.
Okay
> An area of the PHP manual that seems very MySQL specific is the
> "FAQ: Frequently Asked Questions"->"Database issues" page, where it
> goes into detail on how to access MySQL from Windows. It would
> probably be worthwhile adapting that to also cover PostgreSQL
properly
> too.
I will take a look at it.
> As another thought, maybe adding a "Using databases" section, with
> PostgreSQL examples, to the "Features" section of the PHP manual
would
> be worthwhile too.
I started to add examples for PostgreSQL. I fyou download the last
english .chm-manual you will see them. The online manual isn't as new
as the chm build.
I will continue as soon as I get some answers from the developers
because some things are not clear and I dont't want to write
documentation and make examples of things I don't understand.
> and it appears that work could usefully be done on providing
> better examples and noting bugs on PHP postgres functions in the PHP
> documentation.
Better use the bugs interface at php.net and write bug-reports.
Regards
Conni
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-24 12:59 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Rory Campbell-Lange <rory@campbell-lange.net>
2003-06-25 10:04 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Justin Clift <justin@postgresql.org>
2003-07-31 11:56 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Rory Campbell-Lange <rory@campbell-lange.net>
@ 2003-07-31 16:38 ` Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-08-01 13:48 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Rory Campbell-Lange <rory@campbell-lange.net>
2 siblings, 1 reply; 72+ messages in thread
From: Josh Berkus @ 2003-07-31 16:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Rory Campbell-Lange <rory@campbell-lange.net>; Justin Clift <justin@postgresql.org>; +Cc: Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>; Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>; Advocacy (PostgreSQL) <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; Cornelia Boenigk <c@cornelia-boenigk.de>
Rory,
> Another alternative is that I could write a newbie's gentle introduction
> to using pl/pgsql. With Josh's initial encouragement I have recently
> delivered a very successful project using Postgres functions.
> Development speed was greatly assisted by providing consistent database
> interfaces while the operations behind those interfaces could change.
> The system uses a combination of php and postgres, so I could hit some
> advocacy targets by describing the integration here!
I would be delighted to co-write an article on PHP + Data-Push Functions in
PL/pgSQL architecture with you.
For example, a fun one would be to do "Powerful search screens with PHP, and
PL/PgSQL Set Returning Functions"
Also, several magazines ... such as Linux Magazine and Linux Journal, and
possible Open ... would be happy to print a multi-part series on a simple
PHP/PostgreSQL application.
Either way, I'll be happy to participate. Plus, we're starting the overhaul
of Techdocs so that posting articles will be easier.
--
Josh Berkus
Aglio Database Solutions
San Francisco
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-24 12:59 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Rory Campbell-Lange <rory@campbell-lange.net>
2003-06-25 10:04 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Justin Clift <justin@postgresql.org>
2003-07-31 11:56 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Rory Campbell-Lange <rory@campbell-lange.net>
2003-07-31 16:38 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
@ 2003-08-01 13:48 ` Rory Campbell-Lange <rory@campbell-lange.net>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 72+ messages in thread
From: Rory Campbell-Lange @ 2003-08-01 13:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>; +Cc: Justin Clift <justin@postgresql.org>; Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>; Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>; Advocacy (PostgreSQL) <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>; Cornelia Boenigk <c@cornelia-boenigk.de>
Hi Josh
On 31/07/03, Josh Berkus (josh@agliodbs.com) wrote:
> > Another alternative is that I could write a newbie's gentle
> > introduction to using pl/pgsql. With Josh's initial encouragement I
> > have recently delivered a very successful project using Postgres
> > functions. Development speed was greatly assisted by providing
> > consistent database interfaces while the operations behind those
> > interfaces could change. The system uses a combination of php and
> > postgres, so I could hit some advocacy targets by describing the
> > integration here!
>
> I would be delighted to co-write an article on PHP + Data-Push
> Functions in PL/pgSQL architecture with you.
>
> For example, a fun one would be to do "Powerful search screens with
> PHP, and PL/PgSQL Set Returning Functions"
I have a little writing experience, although on the subject of
architecture! I would be more than delighted to collaborate on writing
something along the lines of what you suggest. A serious caveat is that
I don't consider myself a good programmer.
A possibly elegant approach to what you suggest is for us to dream up a
PHP/Postgres task and for me as a relative newbie to provide a solution.
You could then "crit" it (i.e. point out flaws and superior approaches),
and this could become part of the basis for the article, or for
explaining to readers why certain approaches have advantages over
others.
All the best,
Rory
--
Rory Campbell-Lange
<rory@campbell-lange.net>
<www.campbell-lange.net>
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
* Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Re: interesting PHP/MySQL thread Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-24 12:59 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Rory Campbell-Lange <rory@campbell-lange.net>
2003-06-25 10:04 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Justin Clift <justin@postgresql.org>
2003-07-31 11:56 ` Re: [GENERAL] interesting PHP/MySQL thread Rory Campbell-Lange <rory@campbell-lange.net>
@ 2003-07-31 17:25 ` Cornelia Boenigk <poppcorn@cornelia-boenigk.de>
2 siblings, 0 replies; 72+ messages in thread
From: Cornelia Boenigk @ 2003-07-31 17:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Advocacy (PostgreSQL) <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>
Hi altogether
> My feeling on this is that the most effective thing to do here would
> be to add information about PostgreSQL functions to the PHP manual
Maybe PHP-Group doesn't allow this, because it is not the purpose of
the PHP manual.
> perhaps even more
> importantly - to add information if possible to the PHP manual
> mentioning PostgreSQL in key places.
Okay
> An area of the PHP manual that seems very MySQL specific is the
> "FAQ: Frequently Asked Questions"->"Database issues" page, where it
> goes into detail on how to access MySQL from Windows. It would
> probably be worthwhile adapting that to also cover PostgreSQL
properly
> too.
I will take a look at it.
> As another thought, maybe adding a "Using databases" section, with
> PostgreSQL examples, to the "Features" section of the PHP manual
would
> be worthwhile too.
I started to add examples for PostgreSQL. I fyou download the last
english .chm-manual you will see them. The online manual isn't as new
as the chm build.
I will continue as soon as I get some answers from the developers
because some things are not clear and I dont't want to write
documentation and make examples of things I don't understand.
> and it appears that work could usefully be done on providing
> better examples and noting bugs on PHP postgres functions in the PHP
> documentation.
Better use the bugs interface at php.net and write bug-reports.
Regards
Conni
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 72+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2003-08-01 13:48 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 72+ messages (download: mbox mbox.gz follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2003-06-21 17:50 interesting PHP/MySQL thread Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
2003-06-21 18:46 ` Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-22 21:59 ` Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-22 23:51 ` Ned Lilly <ned@nedscape.com>
2003-06-23 01:20 ` Jan Wieck <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>
2003-06-23 02:54 ` nolan@celery.tssi.com
2003-06-23 03:03 ` The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@postgresql.org>
2003-06-23 03:29 ` nolan@celery.tssi.com
2003-06-23 04:54 ` The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@postgresql.org>
2003-06-23 05:33 ` nolan@celery.tssi.com
2003-06-23 05:44 ` Sean Chittenden <sean@chittenden.org>
2003-06-23 05:54 ` Christopher Kings-Lynne <chriskl@familyhealth.com.au>
2003-06-23 08:01 ` Ian Barwick <barwick@gmx.net>
2003-06-23 11:33 ` The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@postgresql.org>
2003-06-23 16:07 ` Dennis Gearon <gearond@cvc.net>
2003-06-23 16:41 ` Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 23:19 ` Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-23 14:23 ` Lincoln Yeoh <lyeoh@pop.jaring.my>
2003-06-23 12:21 ` Jan Wieck <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>
2003-06-23 16:36 ` Dennis Gearon <gearond@cvc.net>
2003-06-23 03:07 ` Sean Chittenden <sean@chittenden.org>
2003-06-23 03:55 ` nolan@celery.tssi.com
2003-06-23 04:22 ` Sean Chittenden <sean@chittenden.org>
2003-06-23 22:30 ` Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-23 09:21 ` Arjen van der Meijden <acm@tweakers.net>
2003-06-23 03:09 ` Christopher Kings-Lynne <chriskl@familyhealth.com.au>
2003-06-23 09:25 ` Arjen van der Meijden <acm@tweakers.net>
2003-06-23 02:19 ` Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2003-06-23 02:25 ` Christopher Kings-Lynne <chriskl@familyhealth.com.au>
2003-06-23 03:22 ` Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@dcc.uchile.cl>
2003-06-23 03:57 ` Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2003-06-23 04:04 ` Richard Welty <rwelty@averillpark.net>
2003-06-23 04:46 ` Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@dcc.uchile.cl>
2003-06-23 15:48 ` Reuben D. Budiardja <techlist@voyager.phys.utk.edu>
2003-06-27 15:52 ` DeJuan Jackson <djackson@speedfc.com>
2003-06-23 05:25 ` Steve Lane <slane@moyergroup.com>
2003-06-24 02:58 ` Matthew Nuzum <cobalt@bearfruit.org>
2003-06-24 03:09 ` The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@postgresql.org>
2003-06-24 04:23 ` Dennis Gearon <gearond@cvc.net>
2003-06-24 05:07 ` nolan@celery.tssi.com
2003-06-24 13:59 ` Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2003-06-24 07:41 ` culley harrelson <culley@fastmail.fm>
2003-06-24 04:13 ` Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-24 11:01 ` Justin Clift <justin@postgresql.org>
2003-06-24 15:42 ` Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-06-24 05:54 ` Tony Grant <tony@tgds.net>
2003-06-23 20:27 ` Erik Price <eprice@ptc.com>
2003-06-24 01:00 ` Jan Wieck <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>
2003-06-23 15:43 ` Reuben D. Budiardja <techlist@voyager.phys.utk.edu>
2003-06-23 16:55 ` scott.marlowe <scott.marlowe@ihs.com>
2003-06-23 17:19 ` Sean Chittenden <sean@chittenden.org>
2003-06-23 17:02 ` Justin Clift <justin@postgresql.org>
2003-06-23 17:23 ` scott.marlowe <scott.marlowe@ihs.com>
2003-06-23 18:07 ` Dennis Gearon <gearond@cvc.net>
2003-06-23 17:27 ` Dan Langille <dan@langille.org>
2003-06-23 17:39 ` scott.marlowe <scott.marlowe@ihs.com>
2003-06-24 01:19 ` The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@postgresql.org>
2003-06-24 01:46 ` Dan Langille <dan@langille.org>
2003-06-23 20:29 ` Erik Price <eprice@ptc.com>
2003-06-23 22:50 ` Chris Smith <csmith@squiz.net>
2003-06-23 22:59 ` Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-24 13:58 ` Cornelia Boenigk <poppcorn@cornelia-boenigk.de>
2003-06-24 14:42 ` Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
2003-06-23 23:20 ` Chris Smith <csmith@squiz.net>
2003-06-24 12:59 ` Rory Campbell-Lange <rory@campbell-lange.net>
2003-06-25 10:04 ` Justin Clift <justin@postgresql.org>
2003-07-31 11:56 ` Rory Campbell-Lange <rory@campbell-lange.net>
2003-07-31 12:29 ` Justin Clift <justin@postgresql.org>
2003-07-31 14:40 ` Cornelia Boenigk <c@cornelia-boenigk.de>
2003-07-31 16:38 ` Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
2003-08-01 13:48 ` Rory Campbell-Lange <rory@campbell-lange.net>
2003-07-31 17:25 ` Cornelia Boenigk <poppcorn@cornelia-boenigk.de>
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