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* Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org?
@ 2004-10-31 11:13 Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 15:37 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 17:04 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 2 replies; 60+ messages in thread
From: Alexey Borzov @ 2004-10-31 11:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pgsql-www
Hi,
I'm testing the mirroring script for new version of postgresql.org and the
results are *interesting*:
Oct 31 10:11:32 mirror [info] Mirroring finished. 423 page(s) saved, 1226
second(s) spent
~3 seconds per page is a bit too much, don't you think? Also please note that it
took ~20 minutes to save the pages *not including* the documentation, which is
*several thousand* pages in size!
Here are the results for mirroring of just 7.4 "interactive" docs:
Oct 31 11:12:46 mirror [info] Mirroring finished. 603 page(s) saved, 2716
second(s) spent
That's >4 seconds per page...
These are the pages from wwwdevel, but as www and wwwdevel are on one box
physically, you get the unpleasant picture. It actually worked faster on my test
server and that is P2-233. Also please note that today is Sunday, I doubt it
will be faster on weekday.
Dunno about you, but if that was my site I'd already be searching for another
hosting. I'm sure that some hosters will be glad to even donate that to
PostgreSQL project.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org?
2004-10-31 11:13 Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
@ 2004-10-31 15:37 ` Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 60+ messages in thread
From: Joshua D. Drake @ 2004-10-31 15:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-www
>
> Dunno about you, but if that was my site I'd already be searching for
> another hosting. I'm sure that some hosters will be glad to even
> donate that to PostgreSQL project.
This has been brought multiple times in the past. Command Prompt and
Gavin both have offered hosting resources. Command Prompt already
hosts the archives. I know Gavin does something but I can't recall what
(sorry Gavin ;).
The resources are available but it is up to the project to request them.
Sincerely,
Joshua D. Drake
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives?
>
> http://archives.postgresql.org
--
Command Prompt, Inc., home of Mammoth PostgreSQL - S/ODBC and S/JDBC
Postgresql support, programming shared hosting and dedicated hosting.
+1-503-667-4564 - [email protected] - http://www.commandprompt.com
PostgreSQL Replicator -- production quality replication for PostgreSQL
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^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org?
2004-10-31 11:13 Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
@ 2004-10-31 17:04 ` Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 20:26 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread
From: Marc G. Fournier @ 2004-10-31 17:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-www
That's why mirrors are pulled from http://www.postgresql.org, nor are they
pulled using what I'd guess you are using ( wget? ) below, but using rsync
... hasn't been for years now ...
In fact, over the next little while, http://www.postgresql.org will
actually be pointing to an RR DNS entry, and not even the 'base server'
... I've just gotta sit down and update the DNS generation scripts for
this ...
On Sun, 31 Oct 2004, Alexey Borzov wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm testing the mirroring script for new version of postgresql.org and the
> results are *interesting*:
>
> Oct 31 10:11:32 mirror [info] Mirroring finished. 423 page(s) saved, 1226
> second(s) spent
>
> ~3 seconds per page is a bit too much, don't you think? Also please note that
> it took ~20 minutes to save the pages *not including* the documentation,
> which is *several thousand* pages in size!
>
> Here are the results for mirroring of just 7.4 "interactive" docs:
>
> Oct 31 11:12:46 mirror [info] Mirroring finished. 603 page(s) saved, 2716
> second(s) spent
>
> That's >4 seconds per page...
>
> These are the pages from wwwdevel, but as www and wwwdevel are on one box
> physically, you get the unpleasant picture. It actually worked faster on my
> test server and that is P2-233. Also please note that today is Sunday, I
> doubt it will be faster on weekday.
>
> Dunno about you, but if that was my site I'd already be searching for another
> hosting. I'm sure that some hosters will be glad to even donate that to
> PostgreSQL project.
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives?
>
> http://archives.postgresql.org
>
----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: [email protected] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org?
2004-10-31 11:13 Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 17:04 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
@ 2004-10-31 20:26 ` Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 21:12 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread
From: Alexey Borzov @ 2004-10-31 20:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-www
Hi,
Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> That's why mirrors are pulled from http://www.postgresql.org, nor are
> they pulled using what I'd guess you are using ( wget? ) below, but
> using rsync ... hasn't been for years now ...
>
> In fact, over the next little while, http://www.postgresql.org will
> actually be pointing to an RR DNS entry, and not even the 'base server'
> ... I've just gotta sit down and update the DNS generation scripts for
> this ...
Uh, seems I was unclear about what I was doing.
I understand of course that the site is mirrored via rsync, but consider the
following: the site which resides in CVS is just a few PHP scripts, to have
something to rsync you first need to *generate* the static pages. And here comes
the problem: page generation is outrageously slow.
In current version special scripts are used to generate static pages, but these
are terrible hacks, f.e. you have to make the same change to design both in the
dynamic page and the mirroring script. But they maybe run in acceptable time, I
don't know, ask Dave.
For the next version I just wrote a generic mirroring script behaving like wget
but taking into account some specific needs (like i18n). The plus is that you
don't need to change this script *at all* if you add pages or even completely
redesign the site.
But now it looks as if generation of full static website will take several
hours. And no, this has nothing to do with network latency, the mirror
generation script was run locally.
Marc, page generation times of 3+ seconds are only acceptable if you do some
extremely complex database queries in them, think reports. This is definitely
*not* the case with the code of postgresql.org, my experience tells me that
modern hardware can happily churn 5-10 of such pages *per second*. Thus: either
hardware is completely inadequate or the servers are overloaded.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org?
2004-10-31 11:13 Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 17:04 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 20:26 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
@ 2004-10-31 21:12 ` Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 21:22 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Oleg Bartunov <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 21:32 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 2 replies; 60+ messages in thread
From: Marc G. Fournier @ 2004-10-31 21:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-www
I just email'd Alexey to test after making some changes (moving the whole
VM to a faster server) and reporting much better response times ...
On Sun, 31 Oct 2004, Alexey Borzov wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Marc G. Fournier wrote:
>> That's why mirrors are pulled from http://www.postgresql.org, nor are they
>> pulled using what I'd guess you are using ( wget? ) below, but using rsync
>> ... hasn't been for years now ...
>>
>> In fact, over the next little while, http://www.postgresql.org will
>> actually be pointing to an RR DNS entry, and not even the 'base server' ...
>> I've just gotta sit down and update the DNS generation scripts for this ...
>
> Uh, seems I was unclear about what I was doing.
>
> I understand of course that the site is mirrored via rsync, but consider the
> following: the site which resides in CVS is just a few PHP scripts, to have
> something to rsync you first need to *generate* the static pages. And here
> comes the problem: page generation is outrageously slow.
>
> In current version special scripts are used to generate static pages, but
> these are terrible hacks, f.e. you have to make the same change to design
> both in the dynamic page and the mirroring script. But they maybe run in
> acceptable time, I don't know, ask Dave.
>
> For the next version I just wrote a generic mirroring script behaving like
> wget but taking into account some specific needs (like i18n). The plus is
> that you don't need to change this script *at all* if you add pages or even
> completely redesign the site.
>
> But now it looks as if generation of full static website will take several
> hours. And no, this has nothing to do with network latency, the mirror
> generation script was run locally.
>
> Marc, page generation times of 3+ seconds are only acceptable if you do some
> extremely complex database queries in them, think reports. This is definitely
> *not* the case with the code of postgresql.org, my experience tells me that
> modern hardware can happily churn 5-10 of such pages *per second*. Thus:
> either hardware is completely inadequate or the servers are overloaded.
>
----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: [email protected] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org?
2004-10-31 11:13 Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 17:04 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 20:26 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 21:12 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
@ 2004-10-31 21:22 ` Oleg Bartunov <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 60+ messages in thread
From: Oleg Bartunov @ 2004-10-31 21:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; +Cc: Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
Marc,
I think main problem is available memory, not cpu.
Do you have single-server setup for www.postgresql.org ?
I see from headers
zen:~/downloads$>curl -I http://www.postgresql.org/
HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 21:13:50 GMT
Server: Apache/1.3.31 (Unix) PHP/4.3.9
Last-Modified: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 21:00:07 GMT
Do you have persistent connection from php to database ?
What about cacheing of dynamic pages ?
Also, I recommend webperf.org to see how fast selected page is loaded
http://www.webperf.org/breakdown.html?URL=www.postgresql.org
Connect DNS FirstByte End Size(Bytes) URL Status
0.033 0.071 0.383 1.073 21429 http://www.postgresql.org 200
0.412 0.412 1.161 1.270 4447 http://www.postgresql.org/images/banner-left.jpg 200
0.532 0.532 1.152 1.254 2929 http://www.postgresql.org/images/banner-right.jpg 200
0.650 0.650 1.143 1.146 929 http://www.postgresql.org/postgresql.css 200
0.768 0.793 1.207 1.418 8616 http://ads.postgresql.org/display_image.php?lvl=sponsor 200
0.905 0.905 1.156 1.277 7465 http://ads.postgresql.org/display_image.php?lvl=free 200
Oleg
On Sun, 31 Oct 2004, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
>
> I just email'd Alexey to test after making some changes (moving the whole VM
> to a faster server) and reporting much better response times ...
>
> On Sun, 31 Oct 2004, Alexey Borzov wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Marc G. Fournier wrote:
>>> That's why mirrors are pulled from http://www.postgresql.org, nor are they
>>> pulled using what I'd guess you are using ( wget? ) below, but using rsync
>>> ... hasn't been for years now ...
>>>
>>> In fact, over the next little while, http://www.postgresql.org will
>>> actually be pointing to an RR DNS entry, and not even the 'base server'
>>> ... I've just gotta sit down and update the DNS generation scripts for
>>> this ...
>>
>> Uh, seems I was unclear about what I was doing.
>>
>> I understand of course that the site is mirrored via rsync, but consider
>> the following: the site which resides in CVS is just a few PHP scripts, to
>> have something to rsync you first need to *generate* the static pages. And
>> here comes the problem: page generation is outrageously slow.
>>
>> In current version special scripts are used to generate static pages, but
>> these are terrible hacks, f.e. you have to make the same change to design
>> both in the dynamic page and the mirroring script. But they maybe run in
>> acceptable time, I don't know, ask Dave.
>>
>> For the next version I just wrote a generic mirroring script behaving like
>> wget but taking into account some specific needs (like i18n). The plus is
>> that you don't need to change this script *at all* if you add pages or even
>> completely redesign the site.
>>
>> But now it looks as if generation of full static website will take several
>> hours. And no, this has nothing to do with network latency, the mirror
>> generation script was run locally.
>>
>> Marc, page generation times of 3+ seconds are only acceptable if you do
>> some extremely complex database queries in them, think reports. This is
>> definitely *not* the case with the code of postgresql.org, my experience
>> tells me that modern hardware can happily churn 5-10 of such pages *per
>> second*. Thus: either hardware is completely inadequate or the servers are
>> overloaded.
>>
>
> ----
> Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
> Email: [email protected] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 8: explain analyze is your friend
>
Regards,
Oleg
_____________________________________________________________
Oleg Bartunov, sci.researcher, hostmaster of AstroNet,
Sternberg Astronomical Institute, Moscow University (Russia)
Internet: [email protected], http://www.sai.msu.su/~megera/
phone: +007(095)939-16-83, +007(095)939-23-83
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org?
2004-10-31 11:13 Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 17:04 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 20:26 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 21:12 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
@ 2004-10-31 21:32 ` Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 21:39 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-01 12:20 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 2 replies; 60+ messages in thread
From: Alexey Borzov @ 2004-10-31 21:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-www
Hi,
Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> I just email'd Alexey to test after making some changes (moving the
> whole VM to a faster server) and reporting much better response times ...
Yes, now it does ~5 pages per second, thus the whole mirroring process will
probably complete in under an hour.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org?
2004-10-31 11:13 Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 17:04 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 20:26 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 21:12 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 21:32 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
@ 2004-10-31 21:39 ` Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 22:04 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread
From: Marc G. Fournier @ 2004-10-31 21:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-www
On Mon, 1 Nov 2004, Alexey Borzov wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Marc G. Fournier wrote:
>> I just email'd Alexey to test after making some changes (moving the whole
>> VM to a faster server) and reporting much better response times ...
>
> Yes, now it does ~5 pages per second, thus the whole mirroring process will
> probably complete in under an hour.
Does the mirroring process mirror *all* files, or just those that have
changed? Most of the files on the site *should* be static, no? What
consititutes the bulk of the pages? I would think the various versions
docs, no? Which are static ...
BTW, does this script you are working on have any access controls, or does
it allow *everyone* to mirror the site?
----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: [email protected] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org?
2004-10-31 11:13 Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 17:04 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 20:26 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 21:12 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 21:32 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 21:39 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
@ 2004-10-31 22:04 ` Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-11-01 01:04 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread
From: Alexey Borzov @ 2004-10-31 22:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-www
Hi,
Marc G. Fournier wrote:
>> Yes, now it does ~5 pages per second, thus the whole mirroring process
>> will probably complete in under an hour.
>
> Does the mirroring process mirror *all* files, or just those that have
> changed? Most of the files on the site *should* be static, no? What
> consititutes the bulk of the pages? I would think the various versions
> docs, no? Which are static ...
All files except docs, since there are dynamic parts like survey and
particularly gborg stats on all pages. But there are not very many pages here.
As for the docs, there is version without user comments which will not need to
be mirrored unless the design changes or the docs for the newer version replace
the older docs. The version with user comments will need to be mirrored every
time, obviously. Though we may consider removing comment form from docs for the
older versions and ease this requirement.
Of course one can add Last-Modified header and 304 response to the pages, but
there still will be a request to make.
> BTW, does this script you are working on have any access controls, or
> does it allow *everyone* to mirror the site?
If you mean whether anyone will be able to access the script via web then the
answer is "no", it will be run from console. If the question is different then I
don't get it.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org?
2004-10-31 11:13 Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 17:04 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 20:26 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 21:12 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 21:32 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 21:39 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 22:04 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
@ 2004-11-01 01:04 ` Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-01 08:09 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread
From: Marc G. Fournier @ 2004-11-01 01:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-www
On Mon, 1 Nov 2004, Alexey Borzov wrote:
>> BTW, does this script you are working on have any access controls, or does
>> it allow *everyone* to mirror the site?
>
> If you mean whether anyone will be able to access the script via web
> then the answer is "no", it will be run from console. If the question is
> different then I don't get it.
'k, then I'm confused ... what exactly does this script do? or, rather,
what is it replacing? building the static files for mirroring purposes?
----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: [email protected] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org?
2004-10-31 11:13 Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 17:04 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 20:26 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 21:12 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 21:32 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 21:39 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 22:04 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-11-01 01:04 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
@ 2004-11-01 08:09 ` Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 60+ messages in thread
From: Alexey Borzov @ 2004-11-01 08:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-www
Hi,
Marc G. Fournier wrote:
>>> BTW, does this script you are working on have any access controls, or
>>> does it allow *everyone* to mirror the site?
>>
>> If you mean whether anyone will be able to access the script via web
>> then the answer is "no", it will be run from console. If the question
>> is different then I don't get it.
>
> 'k, then I'm confused ... what exactly does this script do? or, rather,
> what is it replacing? building the static files for mirroring purposes?
Exactly. Sorry for confusing you. :)
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org?
2004-10-31 11:13 Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 17:04 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 20:26 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 21:12 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 21:32 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
@ 2004-11-01 12:20 ` Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-11-01 15:10 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread
From: Alexey Borzov @ 2004-11-01 12:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-www
Hi,
Alexey Borzov wrote:
>> I just email'd Alexey to test after making some changes (moving the
>> whole VM to a faster server) and reporting much better response times ...
>
>
> Yes, now it does ~5 pages per second, thus the whole mirroring process
> will probably complete in under an hour.
Hmm, looks like I was too fast to celebrate:
Nov 01 11:27:51 mirror [info] Mirroring finished. 423 page(s) saved,
2407 second(s) spent
Something is still very wrong with wwwdevel
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org?
2004-10-31 11:13 Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 17:04 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 20:26 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 21:12 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 21:32 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-11-01 12:20 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
@ 2004-11-01 15:10 ` Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 10:25 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread
From: Marc G. Fournier @ 2004-11-01 15:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-www
Am looking into this with Alexey offlist ...
On Mon, 1 Nov 2004, Alexey Borzov wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Alexey Borzov wrote:
>>> I just email'd Alexey to test after making some changes (moving the whole
>>> VM to a faster server) and reporting much better response times ...
>>
>>
>> Yes, now it does ~5 pages per second, thus the whole mirroring process will
>> probably complete in under an hour.
>
> Hmm, looks like I was too fast to celebrate:
>
> Nov 01 11:27:51 mirror [info] Mirroring finished. 423 page(s) saved, 2407
> second(s) spent
>
> Something is still very wrong with wwwdevel
>
----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: [email protected] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org?
2004-10-31 11:13 Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 17:04 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 20:26 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 21:12 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 21:32 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-11-01 12:20 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-11-01 15:10 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
@ 2004-11-02 10:25 ` Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 60+ messages in thread
From: Alexey Borzov @ 2004-11-02 10:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-www
Hi,
Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> Am looking into this with Alexey offlist ...
Looking into this stuff offlist highlighted the following obvious
problem: postgresql.org (as well as wwwdevel) runs on a shared server
that has *lots* of other tasks that can negatively affect performance.
It is difficult to even point finger at one particular task that does this.
So the solution (as was also pointed out in a private mail to me) is to
get a dedicated server for running the "master" website.
I am not in the position to request such a donation, but PostgreSQL core
and/or community is.
> On Mon, 1 Nov 2004, Alexey Borzov wrote:
>> Hmm, looks like I was too fast to celebrate:
>>
>> Nov 01 11:27:51 mirror [info] Mirroring finished. 423 page(s) saved,
>> 2407 second(s) spent
>>
>> Something is still very wrong with wwwdevel
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org?
@ 2004-11-02 11:00 Dave Page <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 11:06 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 13:05 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 2 replies; 60+ messages in thread
From: Dave Page @ 2004-11-02 11:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>; Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-www
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected]
> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Alexey Borzov
> Sent: 02 November 2004 10:25
> To: Marc G. Fournier
> Cc: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [pgsql-www] Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org?
>
> Hi,
>
> Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> > Am looking into this with Alexey offlist ...
>
> Looking into this stuff offlist highlighted the following obvious
> problem: postgresql.org (as well as wwwdevel) runs on a
> shared server that has *lots* of other tasks that can
> negatively affect performance.
> It is difficult to even point finger at one particular task
> that does this.
>
> So the solution (as was also pointed out in a private mail to
> me) is to get a dedicated server for running the "master" website.
A /dedicated/ server is *way* over the top as I pointed out in my
previous private message to you. The current site regens all 7000+ pages
in a few minutes for example. I agree though that we could use a little
more horsepower though - I'll see if I can setup something on one of my
boxes here over the next few days.
Regards, Dave
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org?
2004-11-02 11:00 Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Dave Page <[email protected]>
@ 2004-11-02 11:06 ` Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 60+ messages in thread
From: Joshua D. Drake @ 2004-11-02 11:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dave Page <[email protected]>; +Cc: Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>; Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
>A /dedicated/ server is *way* over the top as I pointed out in my
>previous private message to you. The current site regens all 7000+ pages
>in a few minutes for example. I agree though that we could use a little
>more horsepower though - I'll see if I can setup something on one of my
>boxes here over the next few days.
>
>
Hello,
A /dedicated/ server may be more than what WWW needs, but
it is not more than it deserves. Although I do not know what else
is going on with the WWW machine, a dedicated machine definitely
would not hurt.
Sincerely,
Joshua D. Drake
>Regards, Dave
>
>---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
>TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command
> (send "unregister YourEmailAddressHere" to [email protected])
>
>
--
Command Prompt, Inc., home of Mammoth PostgreSQL - S/ODBC and S/JDBC
Postgresql support, programming shared hosting and dedicated hosting.
+1-503-667-4564 - [email protected] - http://www.commandprompt.com
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Attachments:
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download | inline:
begin:vcard
fn:Joshua Drake
n:Drake;Joshua
org:Command Prompt, Inc.
adr:;;PO Box 215 ;Cascade Locks;OR;97014;US
email;internet:[email protected]
title:Consultant
tel;work:503-667-4564
tel;fax:503-210-0334
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
url:http://www.commandprompt.com
version:2.1
end:vcard
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org?
2004-11-02 11:00 Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Dave Page <[email protected]>
@ 2004-11-02 13:05 ` Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 15:52 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread
From: Alexey Borzov @ 2004-11-02 13:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dave Page <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-www
Hi,
Dave Page wrote:
>>Looking into this stuff offlist highlighted the following obvious
>>problem: postgresql.org (as well as wwwdevel) runs on a
>>shared server that has *lots* of other tasks that can
>>negatively affect performance.
>>It is difficult to even point finger at one particular task
>>that does this.
>>
>>So the solution (as was also pointed out in a private mail to
>>me) is to get a dedicated server for running the "master" website.
>
>
> A /dedicated/ server is *way* over the top as I pointed out in my
> previous private message to you. The current site regens all 7000+ pages
> in a few minutes for example. I agree though that we could use a little
> more horsepower though - I'll see if I can setup something on one of my
> boxes here over the next few days.
"Dedicated" does not necessarily mean "dedicated to www only", but
"dedicated to PostgreSQL project". Current infrastructure with shared
servers was already found inadequate to run search, archives, etc.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org?
2004-11-02 11:00 Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Dave Page <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 13:05 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
@ 2004-11-02 15:52 ` Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 20:04 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread
From: Marc G. Fournier @ 2004-11-02 15:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>; +Cc: Dave Page <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
On Tue, 2 Nov 2004, Alexey Borzov wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Dave Page wrote:
>>> Looking into this stuff offlist highlighted the following obvious
>>> problem: postgresql.org (as well as wwwdevel) runs on a shared server that
>>> has *lots* of other tasks that can negatively affect performance. It is
>>> difficult to even point finger at one particular task that does this.
>>>
>>> So the solution (as was also pointed out in a private mail to me) is to
>>> get a dedicated server for running the "master" website.
>>
>>
>> A /dedicated/ server is *way* over the top as I pointed out in my
>> previous private message to you. The current site regens all 7000+ pages
>> in a few minutes for example. I agree though that we could use a little
>> more horsepower though - I'll see if I can setup something on one of my
>> boxes here over the next few days.
>
> "Dedicated" does not necessarily mean "dedicated to www only", but "dedicated
> to PostgreSQL project". Current infrastructure with shared servers was
> already found inadequate to run search, archives, etc.
You still haven't answered any of the questions that I asked in a private
email ... Is this a time of day issue (from your two samples, it looks
like it is)? If you set it up to run hourly, what do the #s look like for
each run throughout the day? What does the loadavg look like on the
server when you are running the script? Or is the database being slow?
Considering that Dave states above that the current script takes minutes
to generate >7000 pages, what are you doing differently that makes it so
much slower? And, why exactly are we changing from the current method if
the new method is going to require a dedicated server to run it?
----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: [email protected] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org?
2004-11-02 11:00 Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Dave Page <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 13:05 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 15:52 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
@ 2004-11-02 20:04 ` Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 20:43 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread
From: Alexey Borzov @ 2004-11-02 20:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; +Cc: Dave Page <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
Hi,
Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> You still haven't answered any of the questions that I asked in a
> private email ... Is this a time of day issue (from your two samples, it
> looks like it is)? If you set it up to run hourly, what do the #s look
> like for each run throughout the day? What does the loadavg look like
> on the server when you are running the script? Or is the database being
> slow?
I tried running mirror later today:
Nov 02 12:42:47 mirror [info] Mirroring finished. 423 page(s) saved, 2354
second(s) spent
I also am running it now, getting the same ~5 sec per page response time and
uptime command states:
7:49PM up 10 days, 4:36, 4 users, load averages: 4.00, 3.22, 3.04
The database itself does not look slow, nothing like these 5 seconds to connect
/ send the standard query.
> Considering that Dave states above that the current script takes minutes
> to generate >7000 pages, what are you doing differently that makes it so
> much slower? And, why exactly are we changing from the current method
> if the new method is going to require a dedicated server to run it?
Yes, that's one way to ask these questions. The other way is: why are we having
response times of ~5 seconds for not-too-complex pages?
The only thing I'm doing differently from the current one is that I'm sending
HTTP requests to get the pages. I already outlined benefits of this approach
either here or in a private mail.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org?
2004-11-02 11:00 Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Dave Page <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 13:05 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 15:52 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 20:04 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
@ 2004-11-02 20:43 ` Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 20:49 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread
From: Marc G. Fournier @ 2004-11-02 20:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>; +Cc: Dave Page <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
On Tue, 2 Nov 2004, Alexey Borzov wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Marc G. Fournier wrote:
>> You still haven't answered any of the questions that I asked in a private
>> email ... Is this a time of day issue (from your two samples, it looks like
>> it is)? If you set it up to run hourly, what do the #s look like for each
>> run throughout the day? What does the loadavg look like on the server when
>> you are running the script? Or is the database being slow?
>
> I tried running mirror later today:
>
> Nov 02 12:42:47 mirror [info] Mirroring finished. 423 page(s) saved, 2354
> second(s) spent
>
> I also am running it now, getting the same ~5 sec per page response time and
> uptime command states:
>
> 7:49PM up 10 days, 4:36, 4 users, load averages: 4.00, 3.22, 3.04
>
> The database itself does not look slow, nothing like these 5 seconds to
> connect / send the standard query.
>
>> Considering that Dave states above that the current script takes minutes to
>> generate >7000 pages, what are you doing differently that makes it so much
>> slower? And, why exactly are we changing from the current method if the
>> new method is going to require a dedicated server to run it?
>
> Yes, that's one way to ask these questions. The other way is: why are we
> having response times of ~5 seconds for not-too-complex pages?
Your guess is as good as mine ... using my browser from here, I'm not seen
5sec delays, and I'm two countries away from it ... using lynx on the VM
itself, goign through the web site, I'm seeing instantaneous responses ...
I'm definitely not seeing 5sec delays ...
Can you extend your script so that it outputs URL spider'd and time taken
in msec for it? The pages that I'm testing definitely aren't giving me
5sec lag times from the server itself ... so if you can give me a 'slow
URL' that I can look at, that would help ...
----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: [email protected] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org?
2004-11-02 11:00 Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Dave Page <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 13:05 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 15:52 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 20:04 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 20:43 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
@ 2004-11-02 20:49 ` Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 21:32 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 01:25 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Oleg Bartunov <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 2 replies; 60+ messages in thread
From: Marc G. Fournier @ 2004-11-02 20:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; +Cc: Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>; Dave Page <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
On Tue, 2 Nov 2004, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> On Tue, 2 Nov 2004, Alexey Borzov wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Marc G. Fournier wrote:
>>> You still haven't answered any of the questions that I asked in a private
>>> email ... Is this a time of day issue (from your two samples, it looks
>>> like it is)? If you set it up to run hourly, what do the #s look like for
>>> each run throughout the day? What does the loadavg look like on the
>>> server when you are running the script? Or is the database being slow?
>>
>> I tried running mirror later today:
>>
>> Nov 02 12:42:47 mirror [info] Mirroring finished. 423 page(s) saved, 2354
>> second(s) spent
>>
>> I also am running it now, getting the same ~5 sec per page response time
>> and uptime command states:
>>
>> 7:49PM up 10 days, 4:36, 4 users, load averages: 4.00, 3.22, 3.04
>>
>> The database itself does not look slow, nothing like these 5 seconds to
>> connect / send the standard query.
>>
>>> Considering that Dave states above that the current script takes minutes
>>> to generate >7000 pages, what are you doing differently that makes it so
>>> much slower? And, why exactly are we changing from the current method if
>>> the new method is going to require a dedicated server to run it?
>>
>> Yes, that's one way to ask these questions. The other way is: why are we
>> having response times of ~5 seconds for not-too-complex pages?
>
> Your guess is as good as mine ... using my browser from here, I'm not seen
> 5sec delays, and I'm two countries away from it ... using lynx on the VM
> itself, goign through the web site, I'm seeing instantaneous responses ...
> I'm definitely not seeing 5sec delays ...
>
> Can you extend your script so that it outputs URL spider'd and time taken in
> msec for it? The pages that I'm testing definitely aren't giving me 5sec lag
> times from the server itself ... so if you can give me a 'slow URL' that I
> can look at, that would help ...
'k, I just looked at your mirror.php script .. and realized that its not
the main web site thats the problem, its your new site ... why is your
site so much slower to load up with lynx then the site that is there now?
http://www.postgresql.org comes up instantly,
http://www.alexey.beta.postgresql.org/index.html.en takes forever to load
... why?
I can actually get coffee waiting for your site to load in my browser
here, where there is almost zero delay loading the current site ...
----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: [email protected] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org?
2004-11-02 11:00 Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Dave Page <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 13:05 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 15:52 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 20:04 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 20:43 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 20:49 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
@ 2004-11-02 21:32 ` Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 60+ messages in thread
From: Alexey Borzov @ 2004-11-02 21:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; +Cc: Dave Page <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
Hi,
Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> 'k, I just looked at your mirror.php script .. and realized that its not
> the main web site thats the problem, its your new site ... why is your
> site so much slower to load up with lynx then the site that is there
> now? http://www.postgresql.org comes up instantly,
> http://www.alexey.beta.postgresql.org/index.html.en takes forever to
> load ... why?
That's easy: www.postgresql.org is static HTML, alexey.beta is dynamic.
I added profiling information to the pages (look at the bottom, only the index
page has a full set of "markers") and the results are the following: ~80% of the
page generation time (which is 3+ seconds!) is spent loading local files and
parsing and executing PHP code. Database access is actually *very fast*. DB
connection is slow, but that takes only ~10% of time and can be fixed by using
persistant connections.
That also answers the question why current generation scripts work in acceptable
time.
BTW, may there be some problems with local file access on this setup?
Dave may test the same on wwwdevel if he copies
system/handler.php
system/page.php
system/page/news-and-events.php
from alexey.beta's webroot to wwwdevel, though I doubt the results will have any
significant difference...
> I can actually get coffee waiting for your site to load in my browser
> here, where there is almost zero delay loading the current site ...
OK, here is the answer: the box alexey.beta is upon is only capable of serving
static content. It chokes on even moderately dynamic one. Buy some real
hardware, it's not that pricey now.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org
2004-11-02 11:00 Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Dave Page <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 13:05 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 15:52 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 20:04 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 20:43 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 20:49 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
@ 2004-11-03 01:25 ` Oleg Bartunov <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 10:35 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread
From: Oleg Bartunov @ 2004-11-03 01:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; +Cc: Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>; Dave Page <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
Its interesting to see how webperf.org sees different postgresql.org
pages. For example,
http://www.webperf.org/breakdown.html?URL=www.alexey.beta.postgresql.org
Connect DNS FirstByte End Size(Bytes) URL Status
0.033 0.074 3.226 4.225 17654 http://www.alexey.beta.postgresql.org 200
3.258 3.258 3.854 3.933 43 http://www.alexey.beta.postgresql.org/layout/images/0.gif 200
3.379 3.379 3.850 4.356 8190 http://www.alexey.beta.postgresql.org/layout/images/logo.png 200
3.519 3.520 3.930 4.070 2101 http://www.alexey.beta.postgresql.org/layout/css/new.css 200
3.710 3.729 4.067 4.363 11470 http://ads.postgresql.org/display_image.php?lvl=sponsor 200
3.935 3.936 8.678 8.801 2644 http://www.alexey.beta.postgresql.org/news.rss 200
4.072 4.072 7.736 7.739 864 http://www.alexey.beta.postgresql.org/events.rss 200
4.228 4.228 4.496 4.499 207 http://www.alexey.beta.postgresql.org/layout/images/mark_menu.png 200
It shows, that possible problem could be news.rss, events.rss.
www.postgresql.org behaves much better
http://www.webperf.org/breakdown.html?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.postgresql.org
Connect DNS FirstByte End Size(Bytes) URL Status
0.033 0.074 0.403 1.118 21429 http://www.postgresql.org 200
0.417 0.417 1.082 1.099 929 http://www.postgresql.org/postgresql.css 200
0.581 0.581 1.220 1.354 4447 http://www.postgresql.org/images/banner-left.jpg 200
0.700 0.700 1.211 1.336 2929 http://www.postgresql.org/images/banner-right.jpg 200
0.823 0.841 1.259 1.522 14397 http://ads.postgresql.org/display_image.php?lvl=sponsor 200
0.955 0.955 1.252 1.498 14397 http://ads.postgresql.org/display_image.php?lvl=free 200
But, I again want to stress that current architecture of postgresql.org sites
are very-very bad and you will never get nice performance and scalability
especially for dynamic sites without:
1. Redirecting different traffic to different servers.
a)images and other binary things should be served by small and fast
server like thttpd or lighttpd. Currently, images are served by
apache+php server which is wasting of resources ! These servers
could easily serve several thousands req/sec, so one images.postgresql.org
could serve all such kind of traffic.
b)requests for dynamic pages should be forwarded to backend servers
with php compiled and keeping persistent connection to db.
These backends are fully hidden and accessable only by localhost,
so they will not stay busy while serving could-be-slow client
(slow connectivity), That means resources (memory) will be not wasted
and there is no demand to have many servers online, because interaction
with clients will be server only by frontends, see below
c)requests for static pages are served by plain httpd server like apache -
frontend. These servers should have cacheing capability to cache
answers from dynamic servers, so many-many requests for dynamic pages
will not actualy forwarded to heavy backends ! Our pages are not actually
very dynamic.
This is a classical 3 servers setup and it described in many books and
success stories.
Oleg
On Tue, 2 Nov 2004, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> On Tue, 2 Nov 2004, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 2 Nov 2004, Alexey Borzov wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Marc G. Fournier wrote:
>>>> You still haven't answered any of the questions that I asked in a private
>>>> email ... Is this a time of day issue (from your two samples, it looks
>>>> like it is)? If you set it up to run hourly, what do the #s look like
>>>> for each run throughout the day? What does the loadavg look like on the
>>>> server when you are running the script? Or is the database being slow?
>>>
>>> I tried running mirror later today:
>>>
>>> Nov 02 12:42:47 mirror [info] Mirroring finished. 423 page(s) saved, 2354
>>> second(s) spent
>>>
>>> I also am running it now, getting the same ~5 sec per page response time
>>> and uptime command states:
>>>
>>> 7:49PM up 10 days, 4:36, 4 users, load averages: 4.00, 3.22, 3.04
>>>
>>> The database itself does not look slow, nothing like these 5 seconds to
>>> connect / send the standard query.
>>>
>>>> Considering that Dave states above that the current script takes minutes
>>>> to generate >7000 pages, what are you doing differently that makes it so
>>>> much slower? And, why exactly are we changing from the current method if
>>>> the new method is going to require a dedicated server to run it?
>>>
>>> Yes, that's one way to ask these questions. The other way is: why are we
>>> having response times of ~5 seconds for not-too-complex pages?
>>
>> Your guess is as good as mine ... using my browser from here, I'm not seen
>> 5sec delays, and I'm two countries away from it ... using lynx on the VM
>> itself, goign through the web site, I'm seeing instantaneous responses ...
>> I'm definitely not seeing 5sec delays ...
>>
>> Can you extend your script so that it outputs URL spider'd and time taken
>> in msec for it? The pages that I'm testing definitely aren't giving me
>> 5sec lag times from the server itself ... so if you can give me a 'slow
>> URL' that I can look at, that would help ...
>
> 'k, I just looked at your mirror.php script .. and realized that its not the
> main web site thats the problem, its your new site ... why is your site so
> much slower to load up with lynx then the site that is there now?
> http://www.postgresql.org comes up instantly,
> http://www.alexey.beta.postgresql.org/index.html.en takes forever to load ...
> why?
>
> I can actually get coffee waiting for your site to load in my browser here,
> where there is almost zero delay loading the current site ...
>
> ----
> Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
> Email: [email protected] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
>
Regards,
Oleg
_____________________________________________________________
Oleg Bartunov, sci.researcher, hostmaster of AstroNet,
Sternberg Astronomical Institute, Moscow University (Russia)
Internet: [email protected], http://www.sai.msu.su/~megera/
phone: +007(095)939-16-83, +007(095)939-23-83
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org
2004-11-02 11:00 Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Dave Page <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 13:05 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 15:52 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 20:04 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 20:43 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 20:49 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 01:25 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Oleg Bartunov <[email protected]>
@ 2004-11-03 10:35 ` Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 12:04 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 16:57 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 2 replies; 60+ messages in thread
From: Alexey Borzov @ 2004-11-03 10:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Oleg Bartunov <[email protected]>; +Cc: Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; Dave Page <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
Hi,
Oleg Bartunov wrote:
> It shows, that possible problem could be news.rss, events.rss.
That's because these pages are dynamic, too. But I think it's an error in
webperf that it considers them part of index page.
> This is a classical 3 servers setup and it described in many books and
> success stories.
Your suggestion is nice and all, but right now we are discussing the fact that
we don't even have *one* dedicated server. Only a shared account on substandard
hardware, incapable of running PHP scripts. :(
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org
2004-11-02 11:00 Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Dave Page <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 13:05 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 15:52 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 20:04 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 20:43 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 20:49 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 01:25 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Oleg Bartunov <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 10:35 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
@ 2004-11-03 12:04 ` Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 14:52 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread
From: Marc G. Fournier @ 2004-11-03 12:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>; +Cc: Oleg Bartunov <[email protected]>; Dave Page <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
On Wed, 3 Nov 2004, Alexey Borzov wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Oleg Bartunov wrote:
>> It shows, that possible problem could be news.rss, events.rss.
>
> That's because these pages are dynamic, too. But I think it's an error in
> webperf that it considers them part of index page.
>
>> This is a classical 3 servers setup and it described in many books and
>> success stories.
>
> Your suggestion is nice and all, but right now we are discussing the fact
> that we don't even have *one* dedicated server. Only a shared account on
> substandard hardware, incapable of running PHP scripts. :(
This has yet to be proven, IMHO ... Dave has already stated that the old
build scripts aren't nearly as slow as yours, and it was having to deal
with PHP as well ...
Your first "complaint" was that it wasn't loading the files fast enough
... so, I enabled mmcache on that server with shared memory use only, so
that it doesn't use disk except for the first load ... the build is still
atrociously slow ... the servers are all setup so that shared memory is
locked into physical RAM, so now what? The RAM is too slow?
If anyone wants to look at the PHP settings on that server, check out
http://www.postgresql.org/phpinfo.php ... is there something that should
be different on compile? or something that is turned on that might cause
a slowdown? I'm using pretty much default FreeBSD ports options, in so
far as build and php.ini is concerned ... maybe there is something in
there that should be changed to optimize better? The server itself is
doing neglible swapping (<6M) and unless I've been reading top wrong all
my life (which is definitely a possibility) its reporting 1G of 'Inact'
RAM, which I believe means that available for processes ... ?
----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: [email protected] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org
2004-11-02 11:00 Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Dave Page <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 13:05 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 15:52 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 20:04 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 20:43 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 20:49 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 01:25 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Oleg Bartunov <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 10:35 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 12:04 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
@ 2004-11-03 14:52 ` Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 60+ messages in thread
From: Alexey Borzov @ 2004-11-03 14:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-www
Hi,
Marc G. Fournier wrote:
>> That's because these pages are dynamic, too. But I think it's an error
>> in webperf that it considers them part of index page.
>>
>>> This is a classical 3 servers setup and it described in many
>>> books and
>>> success stories.
>>
>>
>> Your suggestion is nice and all, but right now we are discussing the
>> fact that we don't even have *one* dedicated server. Only a shared
>> account on substandard hardware, incapable of running PHP scripts. :(
>
> This has yet to be proven, IMHO ... Dave has already stated that the old
> build scripts aren't nearly as slow as yours, and it was having to deal
> with PHP as well ...
>
> Your first "complaint" was that it wasn't loading the files fast enough
> ... so, I enabled mmcache on that server with shared memory use only, so
> that it doesn't use disk except for the first load ... the build is
> still atrociously slow ... the servers are all setup so that shared
> memory is locked into physical RAM, so now what? The RAM is too slow?
In case I was unclear before: due to some f**kup in server configuration
(probably well below the PHP level) file access is EXTREMELY slow. And there
*is* file access now due to templates and gettext, even if PHP scripts are cached.
If you look at profiling information at http://alexey.beta.postgresql.org/,
you'll see that just reading files (loadedTemplate, loadedInnerTemplate,
loadedIndexTemplate) takes 0.2--0.5 seconds. Initializing gettext (which relies
on files, too) takes 0.1 seconds (setLanguage).
One also has to wonder whether there is another configuration f**kup that makes
script connect to PostgreSQL for 0.1--0.5 seconds.
One *also* has to wonder what (if not server overload) makes these times
fluctuate a lot.
A well tuned webserver on adequate hardware will generate the whole page of
alexey.beta in less than 0.1 second.
Current build scripts DO NOT DO FILE ACCESS, that's why they work faster. But
that's irrelevant, 'cause there are pages on new website that should be dynamic
and thus will be accessed by visitors on the master server. Page generation
times of ~2 seconds will make PostgreSQL project look BAD.
As for the nature of aforementioned configuration f**kups --- no idea. *You* are
the admin.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org
2004-11-02 11:00 Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Dave Page <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 13:05 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 15:52 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 20:04 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 20:43 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 20:49 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 01:25 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Oleg Bartunov <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 10:35 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
@ 2004-11-03 16:57 ` Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 60+ messages in thread
From: Mitch Pirtle @ 2004-11-03 16:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>; +Cc: Oleg Bartunov <[email protected]>; Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; Dave Page <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 13:35:56 +0300, Alexey Borzov <[email protected]> wrote:
> Your suggestion is nice and all, but right now we are discussing the fact that
> we don't even have *one* dedicated server. Only a shared account on substandard
> hardware, incapable of running PHP scripts. :(
And several people have offered over the last few months, including
myself. I am thinking about a dual xeon with 1 GB RAM that has a load
average of 0.01... Nightly backups too, with disk a non-factor. I
asked about bandwidth usage estimates but never got that far :-(
This I simply do not understand. If there is a need for dedicated
hardware, and it is being offered, then why is it not being accepted?
Didn't CommandPrompt also offer dedicated hardware?
Not wanting to start another heated debate, just wanting to understand
what the deal is - as this topic keeps getting regurgitated without a
conclusion.
-- Mitch
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org?
@ 2004-11-02 21:10 Dave Page <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 60+ messages in thread
From: Dave Page @ 2004-11-02 21:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; +Cc: Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marc G. Fournier [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: 02 November 2004 20:49
> To: Marc G. Fournier
> Cc: Alexey Borzov; Dave Page; [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [pgsql-www] Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org?
>
> 'k, I just looked at your mirror.php script .. and realized
> that its not the main web site thats the problem, its your
> new site ... why is your site so much slower to load up with
> lynx then the site that is there now?
> http://www.postgresql.org comes up instantly,
> http://www.alexey.beta.postgresql.org/index.html.en takes
> forever to load ... why?
You should be comparing with wwwdevel.postgresql.org, not
www.postgresql.org really. But still, it's a good question...
/D
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org
@ 2004-11-03 08:44 Dave Page <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 60+ messages in thread
From: Dave Page @ 2004-11-03 08:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Oleg Bartunov <[email protected]>; Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; +Cc: Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Oleg Bartunov [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: 03 November 2004 01:26
> To: Marc G. Fournier
> Cc: Alexey Borzov; Dave Page; [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [pgsql-www] Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org
>
> Its interesting to see how webperf.org sees different
> postgresql.org pages. For example,
<snip stats>
Yes, that is interesting. What's even more interesting is running the
stats on www.postgresql.org/index.php. All of a sudden, it becomes
apparent that the servers isn't doing a bad job serving static HTML,
it's the PHP stuff that's dog slow.
> But, I again want to stress that current architecture of
> postgresql.org sites are very-very bad and you will never get
> nice performance and scalability especially for dynamic sites without:
Agreed, but I think there's a more fundamental problem to fix before
getting down to the level of optimisation you suggest.
Regards, Dave.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org
@ 2004-11-03 17:17 Dave Page <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 17:31 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 17:52 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 20:37 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 3 replies; 60+ messages in thread
From: Dave Page @ 2004-11-03 17:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>; Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>; +Cc: Oleg Bartunov <[email protected]>; Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mitch Pirtle [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: 03 November 2004 16:58
> To: Alexey Borzov
> Cc: Oleg Bartunov; Marc G. Fournier; Dave Page;
> [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [pgsql-www] Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org
>
> And several people have offered over the last few months,
> including myself. I am thinking about a dual xeon with 1 GB
> RAM that has a load average of 0.01... Nightly backups too,
> with disk a non-factor. I asked about bandwidth usage
> estimates but never got that far :-(
>
> This I simply do not understand. If there is a need for
> dedicated hardware, and it is being offered, then why is it
> not being accepted?
> Didn't CommandPrompt also offer dedicated hardware?
>
> Not wanting to start another heated debate, just wanting to
> understand what the deal is - as this topic keeps getting
> regurgitated without a conclusion.
The problem is not the hardware from what Marc & I can tell - the
current hardware (a dual PIII with 4GB) is just ticking along with
little load, and the current website performs quite nicely. What we seem
to have is a php performance issue that we haven't tracked down yet
which only noticably affects the beta site. Yes, we can throw more
hardware at it if it really comes down to it (I can also rustle
something pretty nippy up), but it makes more sense to figure out why
we're having this problem in the first place.
Your offer is noted and appreciated though :-)
Regards, Dave
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org
2004-11-03 17:17 Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Dave Page <[email protected]>
@ 2004-11-03 17:31 ` Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 20:52 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
2 siblings, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread
From: Marc G. Fournier @ 2004-11-03 17:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dave Page <[email protected]>; +Cc: Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>; Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>; Oleg Bartunov <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
On Wed, 3 Nov 2004, Dave Page wrote:
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Mitch Pirtle [mailto:[email protected]]
>> Sent: 03 November 2004 16:58
>> To: Alexey Borzov
>> Cc: Oleg Bartunov; Marc G. Fournier; Dave Page;
>> [email protected]
>> Subject: Re: [pgsql-www] Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org
>>
>> And several people have offered over the last few months,
>> including myself. I am thinking about a dual xeon with 1 GB
>> RAM that has a load average of 0.01... Nightly backups too,
>> with disk a non-factor. I asked about bandwidth usage
>> estimates but never got that far :-(
>>
>> This I simply do not understand. If there is a need for
>> dedicated hardware, and it is being offered, then why is it
>> not being accepted?
>> Didn't CommandPrompt also offer dedicated hardware?
>>
>> Not wanting to start another heated debate, just wanting to
>> understand what the deal is - as this topic keeps getting
>> regurgitated without a conclusion.
>
> The problem is not the hardware from what Marc & I can tell - the
> current hardware (a dual PIII with 4GB) is just ticking along with
> little load, and the current website performs quite nicely. What we seem
> to have is a php performance issue that we haven't tracked down yet
> which only noticably affects the beta site. Yes, we can throw more
> hardware at it if it really comes down to it (I can also rustle
> something pretty nippy up), but it makes more sense to figure out why
> we're having this problem in the first place.
Just to add to this ... if you go to
http://www.postgresql.org/index-test.php, at the bottom there are
'timings' that I've added to the code ... my last load looked like (with
mmcache enabled):
loading globals.php: 0.135524
loading loading news : 0.015047
loading loading events: 0.013862
total load time: 0.165179
A total of .16sec to load that page ... but, if you notice when you go
that page, it 'hangs' on start up for a few seconds ...
turning off mmcache, the numbers get even better:
loading globals.php: 0.082831
loading loading news : 0.020089
loading loading events: 0.008389
total load time: 0.111649
a hang that isn't apparent if you go to http://www.postgresql.org (a
static page) ...
Alexey's site uses *alot* more PHP then the current page does, so it shows
up the issue alot more ...
Now, to any PHP gurus that might be out there ... FreeBSD ports recently
went to an 'extensions' format for php ... so, you build apache, you add
in mod_php4, and then for the various extensions you want, you have a
/usr/local/etc/php/extensions.ini file that you enable/disable in ... when
Apache forks off a new Child process, is it loading all of those up again,
each time? Or, even better, does it only load up the PHP stuff when a
pages calls for it? ie. a .html wouldn't load in the mod_php, but a .php
would have to load it all up before it could run? Would that load time be
the 'lag' we're seeing?
----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: [email protected] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org
2004-11-03 17:17 Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Dave Page <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 17:31 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
@ 2004-11-03 20:52 ` Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 21:00 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread
From: Mitch Pirtle @ 2004-11-03 20:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; +Cc: Dave Page <[email protected]>; Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>; Oleg Bartunov <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
On Wed, 3 Nov 2004 13:31:23 -0400 (AST), Marc G. Fournier
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Now, to any PHP gurus that might be out there ... FreeBSD ports recently
> went to an 'extensions' format for php ... so, you build apache, you add
> in mod_php4, and then for the various extensions you want, you have a
> /usr/local/etc/php/extensions.ini file that you enable/disable in ... when
> Apache forks off a new Child process, is it loading all of those up again,
> each time? Or, even better, does it only load up the PHP stuff when a
> pages calls for it? ie. a .html wouldn't load in the mod_php, but a .php
> would have to load it all up before it could run? Would that load time be
> the 'lag' we're seeing?
Not with turck-mmcache going. Turck loads every PHP script once,
parses and compiles it to opcode, and then waits for requests, so I
cannot see how PHP scripts could incur a significant overhead if they
were really being cached. I would suggest two things:
1) looking at apache's minimum number of processes (less forking after
a restart)
2) seeing if mmcache is really configured properly - this can be done
by copying mmcache.php from the mmcache distribution files to
somewhere in your document root, and loading it in your browser. This
will show you how many files are cached, how many hits, and how many
reloads.
I'm not a BSD guy so that is a pretty limiting factor for me helping,
but I can tell you that a dual XEON with mmcache enabled and only 1GB
of memory can serve 1.5M page views daily without strain. I inherited
a very poorly written PHP app (more like a hodgepodge of
loosely-cobbled scripts) and even with lousy design it scales to over
a million views daily without effort.
-- Mitch
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org
2004-11-03 17:17 Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Dave Page <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 17:31 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 20:52 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
@ 2004-11-03 21:00 ` Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 21:15 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread
From: Marc G. Fournier @ 2004-11-03 21:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>; +Cc: Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; Dave Page <[email protected]>; Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>; Oleg Bartunov <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
On Wed, 3 Nov 2004, Mitch Pirtle wrote:
> On Wed, 3 Nov 2004 13:31:23 -0400 (AST), Marc G. Fournier
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Now, to any PHP gurus that might be out there ... FreeBSD ports recently
>> went to an 'extensions' format for php ... so, you build apache, you add
>> in mod_php4, and then for the various extensions you want, you have a
>> /usr/local/etc/php/extensions.ini file that you enable/disable in ... when
>> Apache forks off a new Child process, is it loading all of those up again,
>> each time? Or, even better, does it only load up the PHP stuff when a
>> pages calls for it? ie. a .html wouldn't load in the mod_php, but a .php
>> would have to load it all up before it could run? Would that load time be
>> the 'lag' we're seeing?
>
> Not with turck-mmcache going. Turck loads every PHP script once,
> parses and compiles it to opcode, and then waits for requests, so I
> cannot see how PHP scripts could incur a significant overhead if they
> were really being cached. I would suggest two things:
>
> 1) looking at apache's minimum number of processes (less forking after
> a restart)
running 15/30 for min/max right now ...
> 2) seeing if mmcache is really configured properly - this can be done
> by copying mmcache.php from the mmcache distribution files to
> somewhere in your document root, and loading it in your browser. This
> will show you how many files are cached, how many hits, and how many
> reloads.
check out http://www.postgresql.org/mmc/mmcache.php ... also,
http://www.postgresql.org/phpinfo.php ... if you can suggest any changes,
please feel free to do so ...
----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: [email protected] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org
2004-11-03 17:17 Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Dave Page <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 17:31 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 20:52 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 21:00 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
@ 2004-11-03 21:15 ` Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 21:41 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread
From: Mitch Pirtle @ 2004-11-03 21:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; +Cc: Dave Page <[email protected]>; Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>; Oleg Bartunov <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
Hmm,
Are you certain disk is an issue?
Regarding mmcache:
1) I'm setting mmcache.content, mmcache.keys and mmcache.sessions to 'disk'
2) mmcache.compress is set to 1, 1 on my machines
3) mmcache.shm_only is 0, 0 on my machines
Try this out, and see if it is the shm that is causing the hit. I
would be completely blown away if the filesystem access was an issue,
as even IDE systems can access disk faster than an anatomic
load/parse/compile for each script...
Try that, and we can go from there ;-)
-- Mitch
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org
2004-11-03 17:17 Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Dave Page <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 17:31 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 20:52 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 21:00 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 21:15 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
@ 2004-11-03 21:41 ` Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 21:59 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread
From: Marc G. Fournier @ 2004-11-03 21:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>; +Cc: Dave Page <[email protected]>; Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>; Oleg Bartunov <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
Changes done, server restarted ... try it and see if it helps any ...
On Wed, 3 Nov 2004, Mitch Pirtle wrote:
> Hmm,
>
> Are you certain disk is an issue?
>
> Regarding mmcache:
>
> 1) I'm setting mmcache.content, mmcache.keys and mmcache.sessions to 'disk'
> 2) mmcache.compress is set to 1, 1 on my machines
> 3) mmcache.shm_only is 0, 0 on my machines
>
> Try this out, and see if it is the shm that is causing the hit. I
> would be completely blown away if the filesystem access was an issue,
> as even IDE systems can access disk faster than an anatomic
> load/parse/compile for each script...
>
> Try that, and we can go from there ;-)
>
> -- Mitch
>
----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: [email protected] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org
2004-11-03 17:17 Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Dave Page <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 17:31 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 20:52 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 21:00 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 21:15 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 21:41 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
@ 2004-11-03 21:59 ` Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 60+ messages in thread
From: Mitch Pirtle @ 2004-11-03 21:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; +Cc: Dave Page <[email protected]>; Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>; Oleg Bartunov <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
Hmm, seems to shave a second off of the results posted by Oleg. Progress?
http://www.postgresql.org/index-test.php now reports a bunch of
pg_result errors, so I cannot comment there.
The thing that has my attention is the overall time reported by
Webperf for www.alexey.beta.postgresql.org. I did the same tests on
www.spacemonkeylabs.com, and receive timings 1/3rd, and this is a
stock Mambo 4/5/1a with mmcache disabled (something provided by Plesk7
conflicts so I cannot load it on this machine). FWIW Mambo is all
OO-based PHP, with several external libraries and 5 different RSS
exports on the home page (something like 36 queries, the horror).
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org
2004-11-03 17:17 Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Dave Page <[email protected]>
@ 2004-11-03 17:52 ` Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 18:01 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2 siblings, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread
From: Joshua D. Drake @ 2004-11-03 17:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dave Page <[email protected]>; +Cc: Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>; Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>; Oleg Bartunov <[email protected]>; Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
>
> The problem is not the hardware from what Marc & I can tell - the
> current hardware (a dual PIII with 4GB) is just ticking along with
> little load, and the current website performs quite nicely. What we seem
> to have is a php performance issue that we haven't tracked down yet
> which only noticably affects the beta site.
Have you considered using a PHP optimizer such as Tucker?
Yes, we can throw more
> hardware at it if it really comes down to it (I can also rustle
> something pretty nippy up), but it makes more sense to figure out why
> we're having this problem in the first place.
>
> Your offer is noted and appreciated though :-)
>
> Regards, Dave
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives?
>
> http://archives.postgresql.org
--
Command Prompt, Inc., home of PostgreSQL Replication, and plPHP.
Postgresql support, programming shared hosting and dedicated hosting.
+1-503-667-4564 - [email protected] - http://www.commandprompt.com
Mammoth PostgreSQL Replicator. Integrated Replication for PostgreSQL
Attachments:
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download | inline:
begin:vcard
fn:Joshua D. Drake
n:Drake;Joshua D.
org:Command Prompt, Inc.
adr:;;PO Box 215;Cascade Locks;Oregon;97014;USA
email;internet:[email protected]
title:Consultant
tel;work:503-667-4564
tel;fax:503-210-0334
note:Command Prompt, Inc. is the largest and oldest US based commercial PostgreSQL support provider. We provide the only commercially viable integrated PostgreSQL replication solution, but also custom programming, and support. We authored the book Practical PostgreSQL, the procedural language plPHP, and adding trigger capability to plPerl.
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url:http://www.commandprompt.com/
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end:vcard
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org
2004-11-03 17:17 Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Dave Page <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 17:52 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
@ 2004-11-03 18:01 ` Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 60+ messages in thread
From: Marc G. Fournier @ 2004-11-03 18:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>; +Cc: Dave Page <[email protected]>; Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>; Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>; Oleg Bartunov <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
On Wed, 3 Nov 2004, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>
>>
>> The problem is not the hardware from what Marc & I can tell - the
>> current hardware (a dual PIII with 4GB) is just ticking along with
>> little load, and the current website performs quite nicely. What we seem
>> to have is a php performance issue that we haven't tracked down yet
>> which only noticably affects the beta site.
>
> Have you considered using a PHP optimizer such as Tucker?
I've tried using truck-mmcache, if that is what you mean ... it made no
noticeable difference from what I could tell ... and, after starting to
play wtih the current site, it doesn't look like a 'processing' issue ...
I'm going to work this afternoon on building a 'static apache/php' server
... I don't know how apache is forking its children, but the way that the
FreeBSD ports went with PHP, I'm wondering if the problem is application
loading, since it only seems to affect mod_php that I can tell, not static
files :(
----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: [email protected] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org
2004-11-03 17:17 Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Dave Page <[email protected]>
@ 2004-11-03 20:37 ` Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2 siblings, 0 replies; 60+ messages in thread
From: Alexey Borzov @ 2004-11-03 20:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dave Page <[email protected]>; +Cc: Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
Hi,
Dave Page wrote:
>>This I simply do not understand. If there is a need for
>>dedicated hardware, and it is being offered, then why is it
>>not being accepted?
>>Didn't CommandPrompt also offer dedicated hardware?
>>
>>Not wanting to start another heated debate, just wanting to
>>understand what the deal is - as this topic keeps getting
>>regurgitated without a conclusion.
>
>
> The problem is not the hardware from what Marc & I can tell - the
> current hardware (a dual PIII with 4GB) is just ticking along with
> little load, and the current website performs quite nicely.
You mean, of course, "current *static* website performs quite nicely", since PHP
is horribly slow there as well.
I'd like to repeat, the problem is that the server is not dedicated to
PostgreSQL project's needs and it has a lot of other stuff that can affect
performance and is extremely hard to track:
> What we seem
> to have is a php performance issue that we haven't tracked down yet
> which only noticably affects the beta site.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org
@ 2004-11-03 22:18 Dave Page <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 22:38 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread
From: Dave Page @ 2004-11-03 22:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>; Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; +Cc: Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>; Oleg Bartunov <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
Marc's gone for a bite to eat so I'll chip in...
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mitch Pirtle [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: 03 November 2004 21:59
> To: Marc G. Fournier
> Cc: Dave Page; Alexey Borzov; Oleg Bartunov; [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [pgsql-www] Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org
>
> Hmm, seems to shave a second off of the results posted by
> Oleg. Progress?
>
> http://www.postgresql.org/index-test.php now reports a bunch
> of pg_result errors, so I cannot comment there.
Fixed. Marc commented out some stuff for testing.
> The thing that has my attention is the overall time reported
> by Webperf for www.alexey.beta.postgresql.org. I did the
> same tests on www.spacemonkeylabs.com, and receive timings
> 1/3rd, and this is a stock Mambo 4/5/1a with mmcache disabled
> (something provided by Plesk7 conflicts so I cannot load it
> on this machine). FWIW Mambo is all OO-based PHP, with
> several external libraries and 5 different RSS exports on the
> home page (something like 36 queries, the horror).
>
> From here I don't know what to suspect - network, hardware,
> or programming. *grumblegrumble*
>
> Marc, you say you got 15/30 set for apache, can you tell me
> how many procs are currently running?
56 5 seconds ago: http://www.postgresql.org/server-status
> Also, is the new website using pconnect or connect?
pconnect.
Regards, Dave (who's also off for food and then bed).
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org
2004-11-03 22:18 Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Dave Page <[email protected]>
@ 2004-11-03 22:38 ` Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 22:47 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Gavin M. Roy <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 00:28 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 2 replies; 60+ messages in thread
From: Mitch Pirtle @ 2004-11-03 22:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dave Page <[email protected]>; +Cc: Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>; Oleg Bartunov <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
On Wed, 3 Nov 2004 22:18:35 -0000, Dave Page <[email protected]> wrote:
> Marc's gone for a bite to eat so I'll chip in...
Super Dave!
> > Marc, you say you got 15/30 set for apache, can you tell me
> > how many procs are currently running?
>
> 56 5 seconds ago: http://www.postgresql.org/server-status
Looks okay to me.
> > Also, is the new website using pconnect or connect?
>
> pconnect.
Okay, hardware does not seem to be a constraint, apache/php seems
fine, mmcache is enabled; and so logically whatever is going on has to
be at the application level, either php or postgresql. Right?
> Regards, Dave (who's also off for food and then bed).
Hehe no rest for the wicked, I have to keep up with the germans and australians!
-- Mitch, eyes propped open with toothpicks
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org
2004-11-03 22:18 Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Dave Page <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 22:38 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
@ 2004-11-03 22:47 ` Gavin M. Roy <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 00:39 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread
From: Gavin M. Roy @ 2004-11-03 22:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>; +Cc: Dave Page <[email protected]>; Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>; Oleg Bartunov <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
Just offering my 0.02... have you checked to see if the delays are due
to heavy io?
Gavin
Mitch Pirtle wrote:
>On Wed, 3 Nov 2004 22:18:35 -0000, Dave Page <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>Marc's gone for a bite to eat so I'll chip in...
>>
>>
>
>Super Dave!
>
>
>
>>>Marc, you say you got 15/30 set for apache, can you tell me
>>>how many procs are currently running?
>>>
>>>
>>56 5 seconds ago: http://www.postgresql.org/server-status
>>
>>
>
>Looks okay to me.
>
>
>
>>>Also, is the new website using pconnect or connect?
>>>
>>>
>>pconnect.
>>
>>
>
>Okay, hardware does not seem to be a constraint, apache/php seems
>fine, mmcache is enabled; and so logically whatever is going on has to
>be at the application level, either php or postgresql. Right?
>
>
>
>>Regards, Dave (who's also off for food and then bed).
>>
>>
>
>Hehe no rest for the wicked, I have to keep up with the germans and australians!
>
>-- Mitch, eyes propped open with toothpicks
>
>---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
>TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?
>
> http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs/FAQ.html
>
>
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org
2004-11-03 22:18 Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Dave Page <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 22:38 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 22:47 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Gavin M. Roy <[email protected]>
@ 2004-11-04 00:39 ` Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 00:47 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread
From: Marc G. Fournier @ 2004-11-04 00:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Gavin M. Roy <[email protected]>; +Cc: Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>; Dave Page <[email protected]>; Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>; Oleg Bartunov <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
On Wed, 3 Nov 2004, Gavin M. Roy wrote:
> Just offering my 0.02... have you checked to see if the delays are due to
> heavy io?
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org
2004-11-03 22:18 Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Dave Page <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 22:38 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 22:47 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Gavin M. Roy <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 00:39 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
@ 2004-11-04 00:47 ` Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 01:00 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Gavin M. Roy <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 01:01 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 2 replies; 60+ messages in thread
From: Mitch Pirtle @ 2004-11-04 00:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; +Cc: Gavin M. Roy <[email protected]>; Dave Page <[email protected]>; Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>; Oleg Bartunov <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
php 4.3.9 has no issues that I am aware of, and I am running 20
different sites on it. Some basic, some complex. Faster mmcache
performance with shm turned off would tell me that something was wrong
however. :-/
> I even grab'd a recursive directory script off of php.net, so taht I ran
> it thorugh php ... did a stat on all 28k files to get mtime (again, not
> reading in the whole file, only the meta data), but I was getting
> ~200files/sec off of that ...
>
> So, the only thing I can think of is a problem with Alexey's code, which
> he swears is impossible ... or a problem with mod_php4.3.9 itself ...
>
> I even drop'd the # of processes on that server by 1/2 this afternoon, and
> there is no noticeable improvement to Alexey's code ...
Hmm, is it possible to create a test script with a test schema, say
four or five tables that is portable? That way we could run it on
several machines to get a comparison. I have a couple SMP and
uniprocessor machines, all with 4.3.9 that I would happily run
benchmarks on.
-- Mitch
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org
2004-11-03 22:18 Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Dave Page <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 22:38 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 22:47 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Gavin M. Roy <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 00:39 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 00:47 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
@ 2004-11-04 01:00 ` Gavin M. Roy <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 60+ messages in thread
From: Gavin M. Roy @ 2004-11-04 01:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>; +Cc: Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; Dave Page <[email protected]>; Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>; Oleg Bartunov <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
If it would help, I could give Alexey a shell and pgsql database to test
on my server with and see if he sees any significant differences.
Gavin
Mitch Pirtle wrote:
>php 4.3.9 has no issues that I am aware of, and I am running 20
>different sites on it. Some basic, some complex. Faster mmcache
>performance with shm turned off would tell me that something was wrong
>however. :-/
>
>
>
>>I even grab'd a recursive directory script off of php.net, so taht I ran
>>it thorugh php ... did a stat on all 28k files to get mtime (again, not
>>reading in the whole file, only the meta data), but I was getting
>>~200files/sec off of that ...
>>
>>So, the only thing I can think of is a problem with Alexey's code, which
>>he swears is impossible ... or a problem with mod_php4.3.9 itself ...
>>
>>I even drop'd the # of processes on that server by 1/2 this afternoon, and
>>there is no noticeable improvement to Alexey's code ...
>>
>>
>
>Hmm, is it possible to create a test script with a test schema, say
>four or five tables that is portable? That way we could run it on
>several machines to get a comparison. I have a couple SMP and
>uniprocessor machines, all with 4.3.9 that I would happily run
>benchmarks on.
>
>-- Mitch
>
>
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org
2004-11-03 22:18 Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Dave Page <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 22:38 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 22:47 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Gavin M. Roy <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 00:39 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 00:47 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
@ 2004-11-04 01:01 ` Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 01:24 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread
From: Marc G. Fournier @ 2004-11-04 01:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>; +Cc: Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; Gavin M. Roy <[email protected]>; Dave Page <[email protected]>; Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>; Oleg Bartunov <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
On Wed, 3 Nov 2004, Mitch Pirtle wrote:
> php 4.3.9 has no issues that I am aware of, and I am running 20
> different sites on it. Some basic, some complex. Faster mmcache
> performance with shm turned off would tell me that something was wrong
> however. :-/
Here is how FreeBSD ports is building mod_php4 ... does anything look
wrong with this?
#!/bin/sh
./configure \
--enable-versioning \
--enable-memory-limit \
--with-layout=GNU \
--with-config-file-scan-dir=/usr/local/etc/php \
--disable-all \
--with-regex=php \
--with-apxs=/usr/local/sbin/apxs \
--prefix=/usr/local i386-portbld-freebsd4.10
----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: [email protected] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org
2004-11-03 22:18 Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Dave Page <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 22:38 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 22:47 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Gavin M. Roy <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 00:39 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 00:47 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 01:01 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
@ 2004-11-04 01:24 ` Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 01:58 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread
From: Mitch Pirtle @ 2004-11-04 01:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; +Cc: Gavin M. Roy <[email protected]>; Dave Page <[email protected]>; Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>; Oleg Bartunov <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
--enable-versioning: never did it, never saw the need for it, highly suspect it
--disable-all: what is this, not listed at php.net either?
Those are the only two that I think look fishy. Compiled into apache,
or as a dynamic module?
-- Mitch
On Wed, 3 Nov 2004 21:01:33 -0400 (AST), Marc G. Fournier
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Here is how FreeBSD ports is building mod_php4 ... does anything look
> wrong with this?
>
> #!/bin/sh
> ./configure \
> --enable-versioning \
> --enable-memory-limit \
> --with-layout=GNU \
> --with-config-file-scan-dir=/usr/local/etc/php \
> --disable-all \
> --with-regex=php \
> --with-apxs=/usr/local/sbin/apxs \
> --prefix=/usr/local i386-portbld-freebsd4.10
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org
2004-11-03 22:18 Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Dave Page <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 22:38 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 22:47 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Gavin M. Roy <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 00:39 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 00:47 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 01:01 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 01:24 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
@ 2004-11-04 01:58 ` Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 02:22 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread
From: Marc G. Fournier @ 2004-11-04 01:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>; +Cc: Gavin M. Roy <[email protected]>; Dave Page <[email protected]>; Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>; Oleg Bartunov <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
On Wed, 3 Nov 2004, Mitch Pirtle wrote:
> --enable-versioning: never did it, never saw the need for it, highly suspect it
k, I can get rid of that and try ...
> --disable-all: what is this, not listed at php.net either?
--disable-all Disable all extensions enabled by default.
extensions are build/installed seperately ...
> Those are the only two that I think look fishy. Compiled into apache,
> or as a dynamic module?
dynamic module, and the 'extensions' are seperate and installed into
/usr/local/lib/php/20020429:
# ls /usr/local/lib/php/20020429
Optimizer mcrypt.so
Optimizer_TS mhash.so
ZendExtensionManager.so mmcache.so
ZendExtensionManager_TS.so mnogosearch.so
bcmath.so mysql.so
bz2.so openssl.so
calendar.so overload.so
ctype.so pcre.so
curl.so pdf.so
domxml.so pgsql.so
exif.so posix.so
ftp.so pspell.so
gd.so session.so
gettext.so sockets.so
iconv.so tokenizer.so
imap.so wddx.so
interbase.so xml.so
ldap.so xmlrpc.so
mbstring.so zlib.so
mcal.so
>
> -- Mitch
>
> On Wed, 3 Nov 2004 21:01:33 -0400 (AST), Marc G. Fournier
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Here is how FreeBSD ports is building mod_php4 ... does anything look
>> wrong with this?
>>
>> #!/bin/sh
>> ./configure \
>> --enable-versioning \
>> --enable-memory-limit \
>> --with-layout=GNU \
>> --with-config-file-scan-dir=/usr/local/etc/php \
>> --disable-all \
>> --with-regex=php \
>> --with-apxs=/usr/local/sbin/apxs \
>> --prefix=/usr/local i386-portbld-freebsd4.10
>
----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: [email protected] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org
2004-11-03 22:18 Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Dave Page <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 22:38 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 22:47 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Gavin M. Roy <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 00:39 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 00:47 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 01:01 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 01:24 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 01:58 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
@ 2004-11-04 02:22 ` Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 02:53 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 04:32 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Justin Clift <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 2 replies; 60+ messages in thread
From: Marc G. Fournier @ 2004-11-04 02:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; +Cc: Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>; Gavin M. Roy <[email protected]>; Dave Page <[email protected]>; Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>; Oleg Bartunov <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
On Wed, 3 Nov 2004, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> On Wed, 3 Nov 2004, Mitch Pirtle wrote:
>
>> --enable-versioning: never did it, never saw the need for it, highly
>> suspect it
>
> k, I can get rid of that and try ...
You might have hit it on the mark:
# time fetch http://wwwdevel.postgresql.org
fetch: http://wwwdevel.postgresql.org: size of remote file is not known
wwwdevel.postgresql.org 17 kB 8466 kBps
0.000u 0.014s 0:00.80 1.2% 48+556k 0+0io 0pf+0w
worst I've seen so far is 1.24sec ... I haven't recompiled the extensions
yet, only the mod_php itself ... will do those next without versioning and
see if that helps any ... definitely alot better then it was ...
I'm seeing as low as .78sec load times now on those pages ...
----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: [email protected] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org
2004-11-03 22:18 Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Dave Page <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 22:38 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 22:47 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Gavin M. Roy <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 00:39 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 00:47 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 01:01 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 01:24 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 01:58 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 02:22 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
@ 2004-11-04 02:53 ` Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 03:43 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread
From: Mitch Pirtle @ 2004-11-04 02:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; +Cc: Gavin M. Roy <[email protected]>; Dave Page <[email protected]>; Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>; Oleg Bartunov <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
Now we are talking ;-)
Let us know how it looks after the extensions go through the build as well, ok?
-- Mitch
On Wed, 3 Nov 2004 22:22:16 -0400 (AST), Marc G. Fournier
<[email protected]> wrote:
> On Wed, 3 Nov 2004, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 3 Nov 2004, Mitch Pirtle wrote:
> >
> >> --enable-versioning: never did it, never saw the need for it, highly
> >> suspect it
> >
> > k, I can get rid of that and try ...
>
> You might have hit it on the mark:
>
> # time fetch http://wwwdevel.postgresql.org
> fetch: http://wwwdevel.postgresql.org: size of remote file is not known
> wwwdevel.postgresql.org 17 kB 8466 kBps
> 0.000u 0.014s 0:00.80 1.2% 48+556k 0+0io 0pf+0w
>
> worst I've seen so far is 1.24sec ... I haven't recompiled the extensions
> yet, only the mod_php itself ... will do those next without versioning and
> see if that helps any ... definitely alot better then it was ...
>
> I'm seeing as low as .78sec load times now on those pages ...
>
>
>
> ----
> Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
> Email: [email protected] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
>
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org
2004-11-03 22:18 Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Dave Page <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 22:38 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 22:47 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Gavin M. Roy <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 00:39 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 00:47 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 01:01 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 01:24 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 01:58 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 02:22 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 02:53 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
@ 2004-11-04 03:43 ` Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 03:50 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread
From: Marc G. Fournier @ 2004-11-04 03:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>; +Cc: Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; Gavin M. Roy <[email protected]>; Dave Page <[email protected]>; Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>; Oleg Bartunov <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
On Wed, 3 Nov 2004, Mitch Pirtle wrote:
> Now we are talking ;-)
>
> Let us know how it looks after the extensions go through the build as
> well, ok?
Nope, looks like the --enable version only matters in the main php binary,
as it hasn't improved load times ... but, using lynx on teh server itself,
its definitely not hanging on load anymore like it was before ...
----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: [email protected] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org
2004-11-03 22:18 Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Dave Page <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 22:38 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 22:47 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Gavin M. Roy <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 00:39 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 00:47 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 01:01 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 01:24 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 01:58 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 02:22 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 02:53 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 03:43 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
@ 2004-11-04 03:50 ` Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 60+ messages in thread
From: Mitch Pirtle @ 2004-11-04 03:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; +Cc: Gavin M. Roy <[email protected]>; Dave Page <[email protected]>; Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>; Oleg Bartunov <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
On Wed, 3 Nov 2004 23:43:24 -0400 (AST), Marc G. Fournier
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Nope, looks like the --enable version only matters in the main php binary,
> as it hasn't improved load times ... but, using lynx on teh server itself,
> its definitely not hanging on load anymore like it was before ...
Ok then. Looks to me like we've dealt with hardware, i/o, apache,
php, and the database ;-) I mean, if we can't tune postgresql than it
should be impossible LOL
At this point it would be good to get some profiling on one of the
slower pages - being able to time the database tasks, template
rendering and logical computation would go a long way to seeing just
where the tuning steps could be taken.
So we have shown that other PHP scripts on this server are quick, and
that the focus of the tuning is really pointed at the new website,
right?
-- Mitch
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org
2004-11-03 22:18 Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Dave Page <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 22:38 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 22:47 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Gavin M. Roy <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 00:39 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 00:47 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 01:01 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 01:24 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 01:58 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 02:22 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
@ 2004-11-04 04:32 ` Justin Clift <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 04:55 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread
From: Justin Clift @ 2004-11-04 04:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-www
Marc G. Fournier wrote:
<snip>
> You might have hit it on the mark:
Um, now I'm lost. Recompiling the main PHP binary without
--enable-versioning was the winner?
Regards and best wishes,
Justin Clift
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org
2004-11-03 22:18 Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Dave Page <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 22:38 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 22:47 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Gavin M. Roy <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 00:39 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 00:47 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 01:01 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 01:24 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 01:58 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 02:22 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 04:32 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Justin Clift <[email protected]>
@ 2004-11-04 04:55 ` Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 05:26 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Justin Clift <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread
From: Marc G. Fournier @ 2004-11-04 04:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Justin Clift <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-www
On Thu, 4 Nov 2004, Justin Clift wrote:
> Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> <snip>
>> You might have hit it on the mark:
>
> Um, now I'm lost. Recompiling the main PHP binary without
> --enable-versioning was the winner?
Ya ... I think what happens is that when the main php starts up, the first
thing it does is goes through its 'extensions' to make sure they are part
of the same version ... *why* it would do it each and ever connection, vs
just when apache starts up, I don't know ... but, I'm on a dial-up link at
home and I can actually load wwwdevel.postgresql.org now, where before I
had enough time to go to the kitchen for a drink waiting for it to load
...
But, I also don't believe it was *just* that option ... the database was
slow, due to the need for the vacuum full, which was apparent with the
load times on the current site ...
But, after upgrading and restarting apache on all the VMs, with the change
to PHP, even the servers loadavg are all back down to 'normal' ...
What I suspect is that before the PHP maintainer "split up" teh extensions
to seperate ports each, instead of one built binary, he didn't have the
versioning enabled ... it was only because of the splits that he added it,
so it never affected us before ...
----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: [email protected] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org
2004-11-03 22:18 Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Dave Page <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 22:38 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 22:47 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Gavin M. Roy <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 00:39 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 00:47 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 01:01 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 01:24 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 01:58 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 02:22 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 04:32 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Justin Clift <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 04:55 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
@ 2004-11-04 05:26 ` Justin Clift <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 60+ messages in thread
From: Justin Clift @ 2004-11-04 05:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-www; [email protected]
Hi Marc,
Ok, I've CC'd the listed maintainer of the FreeBSD PHP port on this so
that he finds out the --enable-versioning option may be causing some
performance problems.
Wonder if he's aware of it already at all?
:-/
Regards and best wishes,
Justin Clift
Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> On Thu, 4 Nov 2004, Justin Clift wrote:
>
>> Marc G. Fournier wrote:
>> <snip>
>>
>>> You might have hit it on the mark:
>>
>> Um, now I'm lost. Recompiling the main PHP binary without
>> --enable-versioning was the winner?
>
>
> Ya ... I think what happens is that when the main php starts up, the
> first thing it does is goes through its 'extensions' to make sure they
> are part of the same version ... *why* it would do it each and ever
> connection, vs just when apache starts up, I don't know ... but, I'm on
> a dial-up link at home and I can actually load wwwdevel.postgresql.org
> now, where before I had enough time to go to the kitchen for a drink
> waiting for it to load ...
>
> But, I also don't believe it was *just* that option ... the database was
> slow, due to the need for the vacuum full, which was apparent with the
> load times on the current site ...
>
> But, after upgrading and restarting apache on all the VMs, with the
> change to PHP, even the servers loadavg are all back down to 'normal' ...
>
> What I suspect is that before the PHP maintainer "split up" teh
> extensions to seperate ports each, instead of one built binary, he
> didn't have the versioning enabled ... it was only because of the splits
> that he added it, so it never affected us before ...
>
> ----
> Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
> Email: [email protected] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org
2004-11-03 22:18 Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Dave Page <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 22:38 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
@ 2004-11-04 00:28 ` Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 01:22 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Justin Clift <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread
From: Marc G. Fournier @ 2004-11-04 00:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>; +Cc: Dave Page <[email protected]>; Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>; Oleg Bartunov <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
On Wed, 3 Nov 2004, Mitch Pirtle wrote:
> On Wed, 3 Nov 2004 22:18:35 -0000, Dave Page <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Marc's gone for a bite to eat so I'll chip in...
>
> Super Dave!
>
>>> Marc, you say you got 15/30 set for apache, can you tell me
>>> how many procs are currently running?
>>
>> 56 5 seconds ago: http://www.postgresql.org/server-status
>
> Looks okay to me.
>
>>> Also, is the new website using pconnect or connect?
>>
>> pconnect.
>
> Okay, hardware does not seem to be a constraint, apache/php seems
> fine, mmcache is enabled; and so logically whatever is going on has to
> be at the application level, either php or postgresql. Right?
does anyone know of any issues with php 4.3.9?
I just recently upgraded to it from 4.3.8 (ie. a week ago) ... right now,
php seems to be the central issue ... I think I'm going to build an
Apache/PHP4.3.8 server tomorrow, and see if that makes a difference ... I
drop'd the # of processes on taht server by 1/2 this afternoon, the
loadavg on the server right now is <.5 ... and alexey's site *still* takes
2.5sec to load up ... and the CPUs are running ~80% idle:
last pid: 77489; load averages: 0.46, 0.35, 0.38 up 11+09:14:26 20:27:36
371 processes: 1 running, 368 sleeping, 2 zombie
CPU states: 11.5% user, 0.0% nice, 6.3% system, 0.8% interrupt, 81.3% idle
Mem: 1715M Active, 1388M Inact, 640M Wired, 203M Cache, 199M Buf, 10M Free
Swap: 8192M Total, 3824K Used, 8188M Free
So its gotta be something in mod_php itself ...
----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: [email protected] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org
2004-11-03 22:18 Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Dave Page <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 22:38 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 00:28 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
@ 2004-11-04 01:22 ` Justin Clift <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 01:54 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread
From: Justin Clift @ 2004-11-04 01:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; +Cc: Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>; Dave Page <[email protected]>; Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>; Oleg Bartunov <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
Marc G. Fournier wrote:
<snip>
> So its gotta be something in mod_php itself ...
Is there any chance it's a name resolution, reverse lookup, or some
other kind of similar thing going wrong? (It's one of those things that
I always remember to check when weird delays happen for no apparent reason)
Hmmm, couldn't be any kind of firewalling or similar issue either?
Regards and best wishes,
Justin Clift
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org
2004-11-03 22:18 Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Dave Page <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 22:38 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 00:28 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 01:22 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Justin Clift <[email protected]>
@ 2004-11-04 01:54 ` Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 60+ messages in thread
From: Marc G. Fournier @ 2004-11-04 01:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Justin Clift <[email protected]>; +Cc: Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>; Dave Page <[email protected]>; Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>; Oleg Bartunov <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
On Thu, 4 Nov 2004, Justin Clift wrote:
> Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> <snip>
>> So its gotta be something in mod_php itself ...
>
> Is there any chance it's a name resolution, reverse lookup, or some
> other kind of similar thing going wrong? (It's one of those things that
> I always remember to check when weird delays happen for no apparent
> reason)
Nope, that's always been disabled ... unless its something in Alexey's
code that is doing it? I hadn't thought of that ... I only thought of the
apache server itself ... Alexey?
> Hmmm, couldn't be any kind of firewalling or similar issue either?
Nope, all my testing is from the VM itself ...
----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: [email protected] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org
@ 2004-11-04 08:24 Dave Page <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 14:57 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Tom Lane <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 60+ messages in thread
From: Dave Page @ 2004-11-04 08:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; Justin Clift <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-www
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected]
> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Marc G. Fournier
> Sent: 04 November 2004 04:55
> To: Justin Clift
> Cc: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [pgsql-www] Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org
>
> Ya ... I think what happens is that when the main php starts
> up, the first thing it does is goes through its 'extensions'
> to make sure they are part of the same version ... *why* it
> would do it each and ever connection, vs just when apache
> starts up, I don't know ... but, I'm on a dial-up link at
> home and I can actually load wwwdevel.postgresql.org now,
> where before I had enough time to go to the kitchen for a
> drink waiting for it to load ...
>
> But, I also don't believe it was *just* that option ... the
> database was slow, due to the need for the vacuum full, which
> was apparent with the load times on the current site ...
It's noticably faster from here now as well :-)
Regards, Dave
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
* Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org
2004-11-04 08:24 Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Dave Page <[email protected]>
@ 2004-11-04 14:57 ` Tom Lane <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 60+ messages in thread
From: Tom Lane @ 2004-11-04 14:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-www
"Dave Page" <[email protected]> writes:
> It's noticably faster from here now as well :-)
Great. Now could someone check why cvsweb has gotten so dog-slow?
It's been bad for awhile, but just now it took order-of-a-minute to open
http://developer.postgresql.org/cvsweb.cgi/pgsql/
regards, tom lane
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 60+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2004-11-04 14:57 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 60+ messages (download: mbox mbox.gz follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2004-10-31 11:13 Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 15:37 ` Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 17:04 ` Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 20:26 ` Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 21:12 ` Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 21:22 ` Oleg Bartunov <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 21:32 ` Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 21:39 ` Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-10-31 22:04 ` Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-11-01 01:04 ` Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-01 08:09 ` Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-11-01 12:20 ` Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-11-01 15:10 ` Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 10:25 ` Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 11:00 Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Dave Page <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 11:06 ` Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 13:05 ` Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 15:52 ` Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 20:04 ` Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 20:43 ` Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 20:49 ` Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 21:32 ` Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 01:25 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Oleg Bartunov <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 10:35 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 12:04 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 14:52 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 16:57 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
2004-11-02 21:10 Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org? Dave Page <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 08:44 Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Dave Page <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 17:17 Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Dave Page <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 17:31 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 20:52 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 21:00 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 21:15 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 21:41 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 21:59 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 17:52 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 18:01 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 20:37 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 22:18 Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Dave Page <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 22:38 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
2004-11-03 22:47 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Gavin M. Roy <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 00:39 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 00:47 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 01:00 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Gavin M. Roy <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 01:01 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 01:24 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 01:58 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 02:22 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 02:53 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 03:43 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 03:50 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Mitch Pirtle <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 04:32 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Justin Clift <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 04:55 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 05:26 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Justin Clift <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 00:28 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 01:22 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Justin Clift <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 01:54 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 08:24 Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Dave Page <[email protected]>
2004-11-04 14:57 ` Re: Inadequate hosting for www.postgresql.org Tom Lane <[email protected]>
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