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* Re: [webmaster] online demonstration against EU Software Patents
@ 2004-04-09 19:10 Dave Page <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 27+ messages in thread
From: Dave Page @ 2004-04-09 19:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Jama Poulsen <[email protected]>; +Cc: [email protected]; pgsql-www
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jama Poulsen [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: 09 April 2004 16:19
> Subject: [webmaster] online demonstration against EU Software Patents
>
> Dear webmasters,
>
> Could you follow the example of the GNU.org and KDE.org
> project websites (among many others) to make visitors of your
> projects website aware of the large resistance against EU
> software patents, and the upcoming protest in Brussels on April 14/15?
>
> More information can be found here: http://demo.ffii.org/online.php
Hi Jama,
I've added one of the banners to the PostgreSQL site - it should appear
following the next site build on the main site, and within 24 hours or
so on the mirrors. The pgadmin.org site should also be sporting it
before too long...
Regards, Dave.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 27+ messages in thread
* Re: [webmaster] online demonstration against EU Software
@ 2004-04-10 02:55 Justin Clift <[email protected]>
parent: Dave Page <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 27+ messages in thread
From: Justin Clift @ 2004-04-10 02:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dave Page <[email protected]>; +Cc: Jama Poulsen <[email protected]>; [email protected]; pgsql-www
Dave Page wrote:
<snip>
> Hi Jama,
>
> I've added one of the banners to the PostgreSQL site - it should appear
> following the next site build on the main site, and within 24 hours or
> so on the mirrors. The pgadmin.org site should also be sporting it
> before too long...
Hi Dave,
Would it be ok for us to do something more prominent? Preferably
copy-n-paste the KDE page's warning to the top of the PG homepage, just
above the News and Events.
Ensuring patent coverage isn't widened is in the direct interests of
PostgreSQL.
:-)
Regards and best wishes,
Justin Clift
> Regards, Dave.
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 9: the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your
> joining column's datatypes do not match
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 27+ messages in thread
* Re: [webmaster] online demonstration against EU Software Patents
@ 2004-04-10 19:20 Dave Page <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 27+ messages in thread
From: Dave Page @ 2004-04-10 19:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: [email protected]; +Cc: pgsql-www
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Justin Clift [mailto:[email protected]]
>
> Hi Dave,
>
> Would it be ok for us to do something more prominent?
> Preferably copy-n-paste the KDE page's warning to the top of
> the PG homepage, just above the News and Events.
>
> Ensuring patent coverage isn't widened is in the direct
> interests of PostgreSQL.
Hi Justin,
Agreed - what do the rest of the web group think; anyone got any better
wording? Any objections?
Regards, Dave.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 27+ messages in thread
* Re: [webmaster] online demonstration against EU Software Patents
@ 2004-04-11 21:04 Robert Treat <[email protected]>
parent: Dave Page <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 27+ messages in thread
From: Robert Treat @ 2004-04-11 21:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dave Page <[email protected]>; [email protected]; +Cc: pgsql-www
On Saturday 10 April 2004 15:20, Dave Page wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Justin Clift [mailto:[email protected]]
> >
> > Hi Dave,
> >
> > Would it be ok for us to do something more prominent?
> > Preferably copy-n-paste the KDE page's warning to the top of
> > the PG homepage, just above the News and Events.
> >
> > Ensuring patent coverage isn't widened is in the direct
> > interests of PostgreSQL.
>
> Hi Justin,
>
> Agreed - what do the rest of the web group think; anyone got any better
> wording? Any objections?
>
Honestly? I'd be hesitant to put the project into the middle of any political
discussion. Someone thinking about using postgresql for business might see
the banners and decide they dont want to be involved with us at all...
I'd probably debate it further if I was actually for software patents...
Robert Treat
--
Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 27+ messages in thread
* Re: [webmaster] online demonstration against EU Software
@ 2004-04-11 21:05 Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
parent: Robert Treat <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 27+ messages in thread
From: Marc G. Fournier @ 2004-04-11 21:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Robert Treat <[email protected]>; +Cc: Dave Page <[email protected]>; [email protected]; pgsql-www
On Sun, 11 Apr 2004, Robert Treat wrote:
> On Saturday 10 April 2004 15:20, Dave Page wrote:
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Justin Clift [mailto:[email protected]]
> > >
> > > Hi Dave,
> > >
> > > Would it be ok for us to do something more prominent?
> > > Preferably copy-n-paste the KDE page's warning to the top of
> > > the PG homepage, just above the News and Events.
> > >
> > > Ensuring patent coverage isn't widened is in the direct
> > > interests of PostgreSQL.
> >
> > Hi Justin,
> >
> > Agreed - what do the rest of the web group think; anyone got any better
> > wording? Any objections?
> >
>
> Honestly? I'd be hesitant to put the project into the middle of any political
> discussion. Someone thinking about using postgresql for business might see
> the banners and decide they dont want to be involved with us at all...
> I'd probably debate it further if I was actually for software patents...
Just curious here, but aren't software patents already an issue in the US?
I know I've been seeing several going around, or, at least, I believe I
have ... if so, how does this extenting to the EU make any difference?
Myself, I agree with Robert here about being in the middle of things, but
only if I'm correct in that this is already a problem in the US that isn't
going to make anything worse/better by the EU having/not having it ...
----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: [email protected] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 27+ messages in thread
* Re: [webmaster] online demonstration against EU Software Patents
@ 2004-04-12 00:08 Robert Treat <[email protected]>
parent: Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 27+ messages in thread
From: Robert Treat @ 2004-04-12 00:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; +Cc: Dave Page <[email protected]>; [email protected]; pgsql-www
On Sunday 11 April 2004 17:05, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> On Sun, 11 Apr 2004, Robert Treat wrote:
> > On Saturday 10 April 2004 15:20, Dave Page wrote:
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Justin Clift [mailto:[email protected]]
> > > >
> > > > Hi Dave,
> > > >
> > > > Would it be ok for us to do something more prominent?
> > > > Preferably copy-n-paste the KDE page's warning to the top of
> > > > the PG homepage, just above the News and Events.
> > > >
> > > > Ensuring patent coverage isn't widened is in the direct
> > > > interests of PostgreSQL.
> > >
> > > Hi Justin,
> > >
> > > Agreed - what do the rest of the web group think; anyone got any better
> > > wording? Any objections?
> >
> > Honestly? I'd be hesitant to put the project into the middle of any
> > political discussion. Someone thinking about using postgresql for
> > business might see the banners and decide they dont want to be involved
> > with us at all...
> >
> > I'd probably debate it further if I was actually for software patents...
>
> Just curious here, but aren't software patents already an issue in the US?
> I know I've been seeing several going around, or, at least, I believe I
> have ... if so, how does this extenting to the EU make any difference?
>
> Myself, I agree with Robert here about being in the middle of things, but
> only if I'm correct in that this is already a problem in the US that isn't
> going to make anything worse/better by the EU having/not having it ...
>
I think the deal is that those in Europe aren't currently subject to software
patent litigation even if it violates US law. Further, some of the
interpretations of the laws being proposed in Europe are fairly draconian,
and could put more cautious open source distributors "out of business" so to
speak. check out http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html for some
informational links.
Robert Treat
--
Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 27+ messages in thread
* Re: [webmaster] online demonstration against EU Software Patents
@ 2004-04-12 09:26 Dave Page <[email protected]>
parent: Robert Treat <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 27+ messages in thread
From: Dave Page @ 2004-04-12 09:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: [email protected]; +Cc: [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; pgsql-www
It's rumoured that Robert Treat once said:
>
> I think the deal is that those in Europe aren't currently subject to
> software patent litigation even if it violates US law. Further, some
> of the interpretations of the laws being proposed in Europe are fairly
> draconian, and could put more cautious open source distributors "out
> of business" so to speak. check out
> http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html for some informational
> links.
Yes, that's about right - in fact the link at the bottom of that page
leads to the proper Knoppix homepage which mentions even simple common
features like progress bars and scrollable windows being under threat. The
problem isn't even whether on not a project actually infringes a patent
anyway though - just checking whether on not it does can cost a huge
amount of money, so an unscrupulous corporate could put a project out of
business with an infringement claim that warrants further investigation,
whether or not the claim is valid.
As for the US issue - my understanding is that in the US you can only
patent complex software processes and concepts, whereas in the EU you will
be able to patent simple 'things' such as UI controls.
Regards, Dave
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 27+ messages in thread
* Re: [webmaster] online demonstration against EU Software
@ 2004-04-12 09:34 Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>
parent: Dave Page <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 27+ messages in thread
From: Bruce Momjian @ 2004-04-12 09:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dave Page <[email protected]>; +Cc: [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; pgsql-www
Dave Page wrote:
> It's rumoured that Robert Treat once said:
> >
> > I think the deal is that those in Europe aren't currently subject to
> > software patent litigation even if it violates US law. Further, some
> > of the interpretations of the laws being proposed in Europe are fairly
> > draconian, and could put more cautious open source distributors "out
> > of business" so to speak. check out
> > http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html for some informational
> > links.
>
> Yes, that's about right - in fact the link at the bottom of that page
> leads to the proper Knoppix homepage which mentions even simple common
> features like progress bars and scrollable windows being under threat. The
> problem isn't even whether on not a project actually infringes a patent
> anyway though - just checking whether on not it does can cost a huge
> amount of money, so an unscrupulous corporate could put a project out of
> business with an infringement claim that warrants further investigation,
> whether or not the claim is valid.
> As for the US issue - my understanding is that in the US you can only
> patent complex software processes and concepts, whereas in the EU you will
> be able to patent simple 'things' such as UI controls.
Here is a scarey article talking about patents and generating patent
revenue:
http://news.com.com/2100-1014_3-5189747.html?tag=nefd.top
Dave is right that just checking on patents can make software
development impossible for all but the largest organization.
--
Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
[email protected] | (610) 359-1001
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road
+ Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 27+ messages in thread
* Re: [webmaster] online demonstration against EU Software
@ 2004-04-12 10:23 Justin Clift <[email protected]>
parent: Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 2 replies; 27+ messages in thread
From: Justin Clift @ 2004-04-12 10:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>; +Cc: Dave Page <[email protected]>; [email protected]; [email protected]; pgsql-www
Bruce Momjian wrote:
<snip>
> Dave is right that just checking on patents can make software
> development impossible for all but the largest organization.
Cool. Does this mean we're ok to make the warning on the home page more
prominent?
:)
Regards and best wishes,
Justin Clift
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 27+ messages in thread
* Re: [webmaster] online demonstration against EU Software
@ 2004-04-12 11:11 Greg Sabino Mullane <[email protected]>
parent: Justin Clift <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 3 replies; 27+ messages in thread
From: Greg Sabino Mullane @ 2004-04-12 11:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pgsql-www
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
> Cool. Does this mean we're ok to make the warning on the home
> page more prominent?
More prominent than the ugly, neon green animated Pac-man like thing
currently on the home page? What percentage of the people reading
the page are really going to be able to "come to Brussels?" I vote
for removing it and keeping the project as apolitical as possible.
- --
Greg Sabino Mullane [email protected]
PGP Key: 0x14964AC8 200404120710
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=6mVd
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^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 27+ messages in thread
* Re: [webmaster] online demonstration against EU Software
@ 2004-04-12 11:33 Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>
parent: Justin Clift <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 27+ messages in thread
From: Bruce Momjian @ 2004-04-12 11:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: [email protected]; +Cc: Dave Page <[email protected]>; [email protected]; [email protected]; pgsql-www
Justin Clift wrote:
> Bruce Momjian wrote:
> <snip>
> > Dave is right that just checking on patents can make software
> > development impossible for all but the largest organization.
>
> Cool. Does this mean we're ok to make the warning on the home page more
> prominent?
No, it already looks pretty prominenty to me.
--
Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
[email protected] | (610) 359-1001
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road
+ Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 27+ messages in thread
* Re: [webmaster] online demonstration against EU Software
@ 2004-04-12 11:34 Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>
parent: Greg Sabino Mullane <[email protected]>
2 siblings, 1 reply; 27+ messages in thread
From: Bruce Momjian @ 2004-04-12 11:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Greg Sabino Mullane <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-www
Greg Sabino Mullane wrote:
[ There is text before PGP section. ]
>
[ PGP not available, raw data follows ]
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
>
> > Cool. Does this mean we're ok to make the warning on the home
> > page more prominent?
>
> More prominent than the ugly, neon green animated Pac-man like thing
> currently on the home page? What percentage of the people reading
> the page are really going to be able to "come to Brussels?" I vote
> for removing it and keeping the project as apolitical as possible.
Good description, and suggestion.
--
Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
[email protected] | (610) 359-1001
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road
+ Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 27+ messages in thread
* Re: [webmaster] online demonstration against EU Software
@ 2004-04-12 12:50 Justin Clift <[email protected]>
parent: Greg Sabino Mullane <[email protected]>
2 siblings, 2 replies; 27+ messages in thread
From: Justin Clift @ 2004-04-12 12:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Greg Sabino Mullane <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-www
Greg Sabino Mullane wrote:
<snip>
> More prominent than the ugly, neon green animated Pac-man like thing
> currently on the home page? What percentage of the people reading
> the page are really going to be able to "come to Brussels?" I vote
> for removing it and keeping the project as apolitical as possible.
It still raises people's awareness, regardless of whether they can get
to Brussels or not.
This is not really a political issue. It's looking after our own long
term interests.
:-)
Regards and best wishes,
Justin Clift
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 27+ messages in thread
* Re: [webmaster] online demonstration against EU Software
@ 2004-04-12 13:03 Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
parent: Justin Clift <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 1 reply; 27+ messages in thread
From: Marc G. Fournier @ 2004-04-12 13:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: [email protected]; +Cc: Greg Sabino Mullane <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
On Mon, 12 Apr 2004, Justin Clift wrote:
> Greg Sabino Mullane wrote:
> <snip>
> > More prominent than the ugly, neon green animated Pac-man like thing
> > currently on the home page? What percentage of the people reading
> > the page are really going to be able to "come to Brussels?" I vote
> > for removing it and keeping the project as apolitical as possible.
>
> It still raises people's awareness, regardless of whether they can get
> to Brussels or not.
>
> This is not really a political issue. It's looking after our own long
> term interests.
Nobody has yet mentioned how this is the case ... how would such a patent
affect us? For instance, there is no EU corporate entity that anyone
could claim copyright infringement against, so there is nobody to 'tie up
in the courts' ... would this give someone in the EU the ability to take
companyA *using* PostgreSQL to court?
----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: [email protected] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 27+ messages in thread
* Re: [webmaster] online demonstration against EU Software
@ 2004-04-12 13:05 Andreas Grabmueller <[email protected]>
parent: Greg Sabino Mullane <[email protected]>
2 siblings, 0 replies; 27+ messages in thread
From: Andreas Grabmueller @ 2004-04-12 13:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pgsql-www; [email protected]
Keep the project apolitical? What happens if someone patents "A software that stores and manages data" - PostgreSQL will then be illegal here in Europe - who should pay the license fees? And this is exactly the type of patent we are talking about (and that kind of patents already exist here in Germany, they just are not legal yet).
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Andreas Grabmüller
----- Original-Nachricht -----
Von: "Greg Sabino Mullane" <[email protected]>
An: [email protected]
Datum: Monday, April 12, 2004 01:11 PM
Betreff: [pgsql-www] [webmaster] online demonstration against EU Software
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
>
> > Cool. Does this mean we're ok to make the warning on the home
> > page more prominent?
>
> More prominent than the ugly, neon green animated Pac-man like thing
> currently on the home page? What percentage of the people reading
> the page are really going to be able to "come to Brussels?" I vote
> for removing it and keeping the project as apolitical as possible.
>
> - --
> Greg Sabino Mullane [email protected]
> PGP Key: 0x14964AC8 200404120710
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> iD8DBQFAenmDvJuQZxSWSsgRAj0tAKCE7mTm7ebLRTpnG+PtwYzZgYReVQCfXJNF
> IE4kM/xght/dY9pLEkbxgg8=
> =6mVd
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [email protected]
--
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Subject: Re: [webmaster] online demonstration against EU Software
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From: "Andreas Grabmueller" <[email protected]>
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> Nobody has yet mentioned how this is the case ... how would such a patent
> affect us? For instance, there is no EU corporate entity that anyone
> could claim copyright infringement against, so there is nobody to 'tie up
> in the courts' ... would this give someone in the EU the ability to take
> companyA *using* PostgreSQL to court?
I'm not sure if this is the case. However, the distribution would be illegal. The biggest distributor in Germany is SuSE - and they would be no more able to distribute PostgreSQL (and many more things)...
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Andreas Grabmüller
--
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From: "Marc G. Fournier" <[email protected]>
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Subject: Re: [webmaster] online demonstration against EU Software
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On Mon, 12 Apr 2004, Andreas Grabmueller wrote:
> Keep the project apolitical? What happens if someone patents "A software
> that stores and manages data" - PostgreSQL will then be illegal here in
> Europe - who should pay the license fees? And this is exactly the type
> of patent we are talking about (and that kind of patents already exist
> here in Germany, they just are not legal yet).
'k, but such a broad patent would see ppl like Oracle, Sybase and several
other commercial vendors in court, no? I can't see that sort of patent
holding up for very long ...
----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: [email protected] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 27+ messages in thread
* Re: [webmaster] online demonstration against EU Software
@ 2004-04-12 13:07 Robert Treat <[email protected]>
parent: Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 27+ messages in thread
From: Robert Treat @ 2004-04-12 13:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>; Greg Sabino Mullane <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-www
Would you guys feel better about
http://www.e-labs.org/patent_overload.gif
Robert Treat
On Monday 12 April 2004 07:34, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> Greg Sabino Mullane wrote:
> [ There is text before PGP section. ]
>
> [ PGP not available, raw data follows ]
>
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > > Cool. Does this mean we're ok to make the warning on the home
> > > page more prominent?
> >
> > More prominent than the ugly, neon green animated Pac-man like thing
> > currently on the home page? What percentage of the people reading
> > the page are really going to be able to "come to Brussels?" I vote
> > for removing it and keeping the project as apolitical as possible.
>
> Good description, and suggestion.
--
Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 27+ messages in thread
* Re: [webmaster] online demonstration against EU Software
@ 2004-04-12 13:42 Tom Lane <[email protected]>
parent: Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 27+ messages in thread
From: Tom Lane @ 2004-04-12 13:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; +Cc: [email protected]; Greg Sabino Mullane <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
> On Mon, 12 Apr 2004, Justin Clift wrote:
>> This is not really a political issue. It's looking after our own long
>> term interests.
It certainly is a political issue, but I agree that it's in our long
term interests to worry about it. Being apolitical in this situation
is unilateral disarmament: we can be as apolitical as we like, but
that's not going to stop the lawyers from putting us out of business.
"Marc G. Fournier" <[email protected]> writes:
> Nobody has yet mentioned how this is the case ... how would such a patent
> affect us?
By making it illegal or dangerous for European software developers to
work on Postgres.
It doesn't take a lot of imagination to think that Microsoft is pushing
this (behind the scenes of course). Bill Gates is on record as seeing
"cut off your opponent's air supply" as legitimate competitive behavior.
In this case the air supply he's hoping to cut off for open source is
the availability of developers. If people are afraid to contribute at
all, or spend all their time researching patent issues instead of doing
productive coding, then open-source development dies.
regards, tom lane
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 27+ messages in thread
* Re: [webmaster] online demonstration against EU Software
@ 2004-04-13 00:50 Greg Sabino Mullane <[email protected]>
parent: Justin Clift <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 2 replies; 27+ messages in thread
From: Greg Sabino Mullane @ 2004-04-13 00:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pgsql-www
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
>> More prominent than the ugly, neon green animated Pac-man like thing
>> currently on the home page? What percentage of the people reading
>> the page are really going to be able to "come to Brussels?" I vote
>> for removing it and keeping the project as apolitical as possible.
>
> ...
> This is not really a political issue. It's looking after our own long
> term interests.
* Can we replace the ad with something else? Anything else? The color
choices are horrible. The site is sad enough already (any word on the
new one anyone?)
* Who makes the decision of what goes on the site? Core? The -www list?
Marc? Is there a process?
* Why not at least have a "news item" that explains why the banner is
there, why people should be concerned, and what it might mean to
the PostgreSQL project. Asking people to click on a banner ad mentioning
Brussels is not going to entice many people to learn more.
- --
Greg Sabino Mullane [email protected]
PGP Key: 0x14964AC8 200404122050
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^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 27+ messages in thread
* Re: [webmaster] online demonstration against EU Software
@ 2004-04-13 00:59 Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
parent: Greg Sabino Mullane <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 27+ messages in thread
From: Marc G. Fournier @ 2004-04-13 00:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Greg Sabino Mullane <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-www
On Tue, 13 Apr 2004, Greg Sabino Mullane wrote:
> * Who makes the decision of what goes on the site? Core? The -www list?
> Marc? Is there a process?
Concensus where possible ... I'm not against putting it up, else I'd be
more vocal ... I'm just more curious as to potential impact on us if the
law does go through ...
----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: [email protected] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 27+ messages in thread
* Re: [webmaster] online demonstration against EU Software
@ 2004-04-13 18:07 Dave Page <[email protected]>
parent: Greg Sabino Mullane <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 1 reply; 27+ messages in thread
From: Dave Page @ 2004-04-13 18:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: [email protected]; +Cc: pgsql-www
It's rumoured that Greg Sabino Mullane once said:
>
> * Can we replace the ad with something else? Anything else? The color
> choices are horrible.
OK I appreciate that it wasn't the nicest banner, but did it have to get
changed for a 200KB one?!!?!
> The site is sad enough already
I didn't hear you screaming suggestions when I redesigned it - at the time
everyone who commented liked it.
Regards, Dave.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 27+ messages in thread
* Re: [webmaster] online demonstration against EU Software
@ 2004-04-14 11:45 Greg Sabino Mullane <[email protected]>
parent: Dave Page <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 27+ messages in thread
From: Greg Sabino Mullane @ 2004-04-14 11:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pgsql-www
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
> OK I appreciate that it wasn't the nicest banner, but did it have to get
> changed for a 200KB one?!!?!
Yeah, that one is a bit long to sit through.
>> The site is sad enough already
> I didn't hear you screaming suggestions when I redesigned it - at the time
> everyone who commented liked it.
Has it been redesigned? I thought we had a new version in the wings,
waiting for this, that, and the other. As far as helping out, I've
put in plenty of suggestions over time, and even joined the gborg
group (one of the few who did) to put my money where my mouth is.
My biggest suggestion for the site right now is to lose the fixed-width
table - it looks terrible to see the site constrained to a centered box
in the middle of the browser. Second biggest is to lose the
"Contact the Webmasters" box, which seems pointless and almost borders
on rude with the wording about ignoring requests.
- --
Greg Sabino Mullane [email protected]
PGP Key: 0x14964AC8 200404140744
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-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 27+ messages in thread
* Re: [webmaster] online demonstration against EU Software
@ 2004-04-14 12:33 Dave Page <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 3 replies; 27+ messages in thread
From: Dave Page @ 2004-04-14 12:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Greg Sabino Mullane <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Greg Sabino Mullane [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: 14 April 2004 12:46
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [pgsql-www] [webmaster] online demonstration
> against EU Software
>
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
>
>
> Has it been redesigned?
Yes, 18 months or so ago. There was lots of discussion on this list and
I designed the current site based on it, and feedback received following
different versions offered. I don't disagree that it has issues, but
please don't dismiss my effort, and the opinions of those that took part
in the development as 'sad'. It doesn't make us feel happy and cheerful
:-)
> I thought we had a new version in the
> wings, waiting for this, that, and the other.
There is, but the main focus of that is supporting multiple languages.
The *only* design change is to make it non-fixed width (which some ppl
do like incidently).
> As far as
> helping out, I've put in plenty of suggestions over time, and
> even joined the gborg group (one of the few who did) to put
> my money where my mouth is.
I don't deny that you have helped out, and it is appreciated.
> My biggest suggestion for the site right now is to lose the
> fixed-width table - it looks terrible to see the site
> constrained to a centered box in the middle of the browser.
Being done....
> Second biggest is to lose the "Contact the Webmasters" box,
> which seems pointless and almost borders on rude with the
> wording about ignoring requests.
There sits someone who has never had that address pointing to their
inbox! Without the box, we got lots of messages complaining that ppl
didn't know how to contact the webmasters (yes, I know!), so I added the
box. Then, I get inundated with support requests, that really belong on
-general or similar, so I added the warning. Even now we still get the
odd 'why doesn't this pl/pgsql function work?' type email. If you have a
suggestion to solve all of this, then I'd be happy to hear it!! :-)
Regards, Dave.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 27+ messages in thread
* Re: [webmaster] online demonstration against EU Software
@ 2004-04-14 12:56 Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
parent: Dave Page <[email protected]>
2 siblings, 0 replies; 27+ messages in thread
From: Marc G. Fournier @ 2004-04-14 12:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dave Page <[email protected]>; +Cc: Greg Sabino Mullane <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
On Wed, 14 Apr 2004, Dave Page wrote:
> > I thought we had a new version in the
> > wings, waiting for this, that, and the other.
>
> There is, but the main focus of that is supporting multiple languages.
> The *only* design change is to make it non-fixed width (which some ppl
> do like incidently).
Myself being one of them ... the site sucks royally in non-fixed-width if
you making your browser too wide :(
> There sits someone who has never had that address pointing to their
> inbox! Without the box, we got lots of messages complaining that ppl
> didn't know how to contact the webmasters (yes, I know!), so I added the
> box. Then, I get inundated with support requests, that really belong on
> -general or similar, so I added the warning. Even now we still get the
> odd 'why doesn't this pl/pgsql function work?' type email. If you have a
> suggestion to solve all of this, then I'd be happy to hear it!! :-)
Point it to [email protected]? :)
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: [email protected] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 27+ messages in thread
* Re: [webmaster] online demonstration against EU Software
@ 2004-04-14 13:31 Dave Page <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 27+ messages in thread
From: Dave Page @ 2004-04-14 13:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>; +Cc: Greg Sabino Mullane <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marc G. Fournier [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: 14 April 2004 13:56
> To: Dave Page
> Cc: Greg Sabino Mullane; [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [pgsql-www] [webmaster] online demonstration
> against EU Software
>
> Point it to [email protected]? :)
That'll just shift the traffic there, it won't solve the problem (which
is not a major issue these days anyway apart from the fact that Greg
thinks the box 'contact us' box is innappropriate).
It will make communications that people might expect to be private a
matter of public record though.
Regards, Dave
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 27+ messages in thread
* Re: [webmaster] online demonstration against EU Software
@ 2004-04-14 19:17 Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>
parent: Dave Page <[email protected]>
2 siblings, 0 replies; 27+ messages in thread
From: Bruce Momjian @ 2004-04-14 19:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dave Page <[email protected]>; +Cc: Greg Sabino Mullane <[email protected]>; pgsql-www
Dave Page wrote:
> There sits someone who has never had that address pointing to their
> inbox! Without the box, we got lots of messages complaining that ppl
> didn't know how to contact the webmasters (yes, I know!), so I added the
> box. Then, I get inundated with support requests, that really belong on
> -general or similar, so I added the warning. Even now we still get the
> odd 'why doesn't this pl/pgsql function work?' type email. If you have a
> suggestion to solve all of this, then I'd be happy to hear it!! :-)
Create a file with a standard reply, and use it when you get such
questions. Here is mine:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Due to time constraints, I do not directly answer general PostgreSQL
questions. For assistance, please join the appropriate mailing list and
post your question:
http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge
You can also try the #postgresql IRC channel on irc.freenode.net. See
the PostgreSQL FAQ for more information.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
[email protected] | (610) 359-1001
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road
+ Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 27+ messages in thread
* Re: [webmaster] online demonstration against EU Software
@ 2004-04-15 10:52 Greg Sabino Mullane <[email protected]>
parent: Dave Page <[email protected]>
2 siblings, 1 reply; 27+ messages in thread
From: Greg Sabino Mullane @ 2004-04-15 10:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pgsql-www
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
> Yes, 18 months or so ago. There was lots of discussion on this list and
Sorry, I was not talking about that redesign, but the one that is still
in the wings. I knew that getting rid of fixed-width was one of the
latest changes, so when I see fixed-width, I see it as not being
recently changed.
> There sits someone who has never had that address pointing
> to their inbox! Without the box, we got lots of messages
> complaining that ppl didn't know how to contact the webmasters
> (yes, I know!), so I added the box.
How about a web form that points people to the right spot? Perhaps
linked with a simple "contact us" hyperlink.
> There is, but the main focus of that is supporting multiple languages.
Is this the one with the major overhaul of the underlying PHP? My
recollection was that we are waiting for this to be put into place before
any other minor or major changes can be made. Is this true, and do we
have an estimated time for the switch to occur?
Thanks,
- --
Greg Sabino Mullane [email protected]
PGP Key: 0x14964AC8 200404150648
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^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 27+ messages in thread
* Re: [webmaster] online demonstration against EU Software
@ 2004-04-15 11:38 Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
parent: Greg Sabino Mullane <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 27+ messages in thread
From: Alexey Borzov @ 2004-04-15 11:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Greg Sabino Mullane <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-www
Hi!
Greg Sabino Mullane wrote:
>>>There is, but the main focus of that is supporting multiple languages.
>
>
> Is this the one with the major overhaul of the underlying PHP? My
> recollection was that we are waiting for this to be put into place before
> any other minor or major changes can be made. Is this true, and do we
> have an estimated time for the switch to occur?
This is true, we have some tasks to complete
http://gborg.postgresql.org/project/pgweb/task/tasklist.php
the tasks are the ones starting with 'portal'
I didn't have time to work on this myself, but am going to restart the
work now.
As for the estimate, I'd say it is Really Soon Now.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 27+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2004-04-15 11:38 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 27+ messages (download: mbox mbox.gz follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2004-04-09 19:10 Re: [webmaster] online demonstration against EU Software Patents Dave Page <[email protected]>
2004-04-10 02:55 ` Re: [webmaster] online demonstration against EU Software Justin Clift <[email protected]>
2004-04-10 19:20 Re: [webmaster] online demonstration against EU Software Patents Dave Page <[email protected]>
2004-04-11 21:04 ` Robert Treat <[email protected]>
2004-04-11 21:05 ` Re: [webmaster] online demonstration against EU Software Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-04-12 00:08 ` Robert Treat <[email protected]>
2004-04-12 09:26 ` Dave Page <[email protected]>
2004-04-12 09:34 ` Re: [webmaster] online demonstration against EU Software Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>
2004-04-12 10:23 ` Re: [webmaster] online demonstration against EU Software Justin Clift <[email protected]>
2004-04-12 11:11 ` Re: [webmaster] online demonstration against EU Software Greg Sabino Mullane <[email protected]>
2004-04-12 11:34 ` Re: [webmaster] online demonstration against EU Software Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>
2004-04-12 13:07 ` Re: [webmaster] online demonstration against EU Software Robert Treat <[email protected]>
2004-04-12 12:50 ` Re: [webmaster] online demonstration against EU Software Justin Clift <[email protected]>
2004-04-12 13:03 ` Re: [webmaster] online demonstration against EU Software Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-04-12 13:42 ` Re: [webmaster] online demonstration against EU Software Tom Lane <[email protected]>
2004-04-13 00:50 ` Re: [webmaster] online demonstration against EU Software Greg Sabino Mullane <[email protected]>
2004-04-13 00:59 ` Re: [webmaster] online demonstration against EU Software Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-04-13 18:07 ` Re: [webmaster] online demonstration against EU Software Dave Page <[email protected]>
2004-04-14 11:45 ` Re: [webmaster] online demonstration against EU Software Greg Sabino Mullane <[email protected]>
2004-04-12 13:05 ` Re: [webmaster] online demonstration against EU Software Andreas Grabmueller <[email protected]>
2004-04-12 11:33 ` Re: [webmaster] online demonstration against EU Software Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>
2004-04-14 12:33 Re: [webmaster] online demonstration against EU Software Dave Page <[email protected]>
2004-04-14 12:56 ` Re: [webmaster] online demonstration against EU Software Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-04-14 19:17 ` Re: [webmaster] online demonstration against EU Software Bruce Momjian <[email protected]>
2004-04-15 10:52 ` Re: [webmaster] online demonstration against EU Software Greg Sabino Mullane <[email protected]>
2004-04-15 11:38 ` Re: [webmaster] online demonstration against EU Software Alexey Borzov <[email protected]>
2004-04-14 13:31 Re: [webmaster] online demonstration against EU Software Dave Page <[email protected]>
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