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* pg_monitor role description
@ 2021-05-20 06:11 PG Doc comments form <[email protected]>
  2021-05-20 07:00 ` Re: pg_monitor role description Michael Paquier <[email protected]>
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread

From: PG Doc comments form @ 2021-05-20 06:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: [email protected]; +Cc: [email protected]

The following documentation comment has been logged on the website:

Page: https://www.postgresql.org/docs/13/default-roles.html
Description:

"This role is a member of pg_read_all_settings, pg_read_all_stats and
pg_stat_scan_tables."
Is it correct sentence?
It seems for me that pg_read_all_stats is a member of pg_monitor. But not
vice versa.


^ permalink  raw  reply  [nested|flat] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: pg_monitor role description
  2021-05-20 06:11 pg_monitor role description PG Doc comments form <[email protected]>
@ 2021-05-20 07:00 ` Michael Paquier <[email protected]>
  2021-05-20 08:54   ` Re: pg_monitor role description Julien Rouhaud <[email protected]>
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread

From: Michael Paquier @ 2021-05-20 07:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: [email protected]; [email protected]

On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 06:11:40AM +0000, PG Doc comments form wrote:
> "This role is a member of pg_read_all_settings, pg_read_all_stats and
> pg_stat_scan_tables."
> Is it correct sentence?
> It seems for me that pg_read_all_stats is a member of pg_monitor. But not
> vice versa.

Here is what I am getting:
=# \dgS pg_monitor
                                      List of roles
 Role name  |  Attributes  |                         Member of
------------+--------------+--------------------------------------------------------------
 pg_monitor | Cannot login | {pg_read_all_settings,pg_read_all_stats,pg_stat_scan_tables}

=# \dgS pg_read_all_data
                List of roles

    Role name     |  Attributes  | Member of
------------------+--------------+-----------
 pg_read_all_data | Cannot login | {}

So the docs look correct to me.
--
Michael


Attachments:

  [application/pgp-signature] signature.asc (833B, 2-signature.asc)
  download

^ permalink  raw  reply  [nested|flat] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: pg_monitor role description
  2021-05-20 06:11 pg_monitor role description PG Doc comments form <[email protected]>
  2021-05-20 07:00 ` Re: pg_monitor role description Michael Paquier <[email protected]>
@ 2021-05-20 08:54   ` Julien Rouhaud <[email protected]>
  2021-05-20 12:44     ` Re: pg_monitor role description Pavel Luzanov <[email protected]>
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread

From: Julien Rouhaud @ 2021-05-20 08:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Michael Paquier <[email protected]>; +Cc: [email protected]; [email protected]

On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 3:01 PM Michael Paquier <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 06:11:40AM +0000, PG Doc comments form wrote:
> > "This role is a member of pg_read_all_settings, pg_read_all_stats and
> > pg_stat_scan_tables."
> > Is it correct sentence?
> > It seems for me that pg_read_all_stats is a member of pg_monitor. But not
> > vice versa.
>
> Here is what I am getting:
> =# \dgS pg_monitor
>                                       List of roles
>  Role name  |  Attributes  |                         Member of
> ------------+--------------+--------------------------------------------------------------
>  pg_monitor | Cannot login | {pg_read_all_settings,pg_read_all_stats,pg_stat_scan_tables}
>
> =# \dgS pg_read_all_data
>                 List of roles
>
>     Role name     |  Attributes  | Member of
> ------------------+--------------+-----------
>  pg_read_all_data | Cannot login | {}
>
> So the docs look correct to me.

Indeed.  In other words pg_monitor is the sum of the authorizations
given by all those roles.





^ permalink  raw  reply  [nested|flat] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: pg_monitor role description
  2021-05-20 06:11 pg_monitor role description PG Doc comments form <[email protected]>
  2021-05-20 07:00 ` Re: pg_monitor role description Michael Paquier <[email protected]>
  2021-05-20 08:54   ` Re: pg_monitor role description Julien Rouhaud <[email protected]>
@ 2021-05-20 12:44     ` Pavel Luzanov <[email protected]>
  2021-05-20 16:03       ` Re: pg_monitor role description Tom Lane <[email protected]>
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread

From: Pavel Luzanov @ 2021-05-20 12:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Julien Rouhaud <[email protected]>; Michael Paquier <[email protected]>; +Cc: [email protected]; [email protected]

On 20.05.2021 11:54, Julien Rouhaud wrote:

> On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 3:01 PM Michael Paquier <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 06:11:40AM +0000, PG Doc comments form wrote:
>>> "This role is a member of pg_read_all_settings, pg_read_all_stats and
>>> pg_stat_scan_tables."
>>> Is it correct sentence?
>>> It seems for me that pg_read_all_stats is a member of pg_monitor. But not
>>> vice versa.
>> Here is what I am getting:
>> =# \dgS pg_monitor
>>                                        List of roles
>>   Role name  |  Attributes  |                         Member of
>> ------------+--------------+--------------------------------------------------------------
>>   pg_monitor | Cannot login | {pg_read_all_settings,pg_read_all_stats,pg_stat_scan_tables}
>>
>> =# \dgS pg_read_all_data
>>                  List of roles
>>
>>      Role name     |  Attributes  | Member of
>> ------------------+--------------+-----------
>>   pg_read_all_data | Cannot login | {}
>>
>> So the docs look correct to me.
> Indeed.  In other words pg_monitor is the sum of the authorizations
> given by all those roles.

Let me try one more time.
What is correct from the English language point of view:

1. Julien Rouhaud is a member of PostgreSQL Community.

or

2. PostgreSQL Community is a member of Julien Rouhaud, Michael Paquier.

Or both forms are correct?

I think that 1 is correct. And column header in a \du output must be something like 'members' instead of 'member of'.

-- 
Pavel Luzanov
Postgres Professional: https://postgrespro.com
The Russian Postgres Company



^ permalink  raw  reply  [nested|flat] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: pg_monitor role description
  2021-05-20 06:11 pg_monitor role description PG Doc comments form <[email protected]>
  2021-05-20 07:00 ` Re: pg_monitor role description Michael Paquier <[email protected]>
  2021-05-20 08:54   ` Re: pg_monitor role description Julien Rouhaud <[email protected]>
  2021-05-20 12:44     ` Re: pg_monitor role description Pavel Luzanov <[email protected]>
@ 2021-05-20 16:03       ` Tom Lane <[email protected]>
  2021-05-20 16:16         ` Re: pg_monitor role description Laurenz Albe <[email protected]>
  2021-05-20 17:27         ` Re: pg_monitor role description Pavel Luzanov <[email protected]>
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 11+ messages in thread

From: Tom Lane @ 2021-05-20 16:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Pavel Luzanov <[email protected]>; +Cc: Julien Rouhaud <[email protected]>; Michael Paquier <[email protected]>; [email protected]; [email protected]

Pavel Luzanov <[email protected]> writes:
> Let me try one more time.
> What is correct from the English language point of view:
> 1. Julien Rouhaud is a member of PostgreSQL Community.
> or
> 2. PostgreSQL Community is a member of Julien Rouhaud, Michael Paquier.
> Or both forms are correct?
> I think that 1 is correct.

You're right about that ...

> And column header in a \du output must be something like 'members' instead of 'member of'.

... but this does not follow, because it's a poor analogy.  "Member of"
means "these role(s) have been GRANT'ed to pg_monitor".

As a more typical use-case, there might be a role "sysadmins" that holds
assorted privileges, and then certain individual users are granted that
role.  Nobody would quibble with seeing

             List of roles
 Role name |  Attributes  |  Member of  
-----------+--------------+-------------
 bob       |              | {sysadmins}
 joe       |              | {sysadmins}
 sysadmins | Cannot login | {}

and I think most would agree that titling the column "Members" would
be backwards.

			regards, tom lane





^ permalink  raw  reply  [nested|flat] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: pg_monitor role description
  2021-05-20 06:11 pg_monitor role description PG Doc comments form <[email protected]>
  2021-05-20 07:00 ` Re: pg_monitor role description Michael Paquier <[email protected]>
  2021-05-20 08:54   ` Re: pg_monitor role description Julien Rouhaud <[email protected]>
  2021-05-20 12:44     ` Re: pg_monitor role description Pavel Luzanov <[email protected]>
  2021-05-20 16:03       ` Re: pg_monitor role description Tom Lane <[email protected]>
@ 2021-05-20 16:16         ` Laurenz Albe <[email protected]>
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread

From: Laurenz Albe @ 2021-05-20 16:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Tom Lane <[email protected]>; Pavel Luzanov <[email protected]>; +Cc: Julien Rouhaud <[email protected]>; Michael Paquier <[email protected]>; [email protected]; [email protected]

On Thu, 2021-05-20 at 12:03 -0400, Tom Lane wrote:
>              List of roles
>  Role name |  Attributes  |  Member of  
> -----------+--------------+-------------
>  bob       |              | {sysadmins}
>  joe       |              | {sysadmins}
>  sysadmins | Cannot login | {}
> 
> and I think most would agree that titling the column "Members" would
> be backwards.

Right.  you have to read that like:

Role name (bob) with attributes () is a member of (sysadmins).

Yours,
Laurenz Albe






^ permalink  raw  reply  [nested|flat] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: pg_monitor role description
  2021-05-20 06:11 pg_monitor role description PG Doc comments form <[email protected]>
  2021-05-20 07:00 ` Re: pg_monitor role description Michael Paquier <[email protected]>
  2021-05-20 08:54   ` Re: pg_monitor role description Julien Rouhaud <[email protected]>
  2021-05-20 12:44     ` Re: pg_monitor role description Pavel Luzanov <[email protected]>
  2021-05-20 16:03       ` Re: pg_monitor role description Tom Lane <[email protected]>
@ 2021-05-20 17:27         ` Pavel Luzanov <[email protected]>
  2021-05-20 18:00           ` Re: pg_monitor role description Pavel Luzanov <[email protected]>
  2021-05-20 18:10           ` Re: pg_monitor role description Tom Lane <[email protected]>
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 11+ messages in thread

From: Pavel Luzanov @ 2021-05-20 17:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: [email protected]

Hello,

On 20.05.2021 19:03, Tom Lane wrote:

> Pavel Luzanov <[email protected]> writes:
>> Let me try one more time.
>> What is correct from the English language point of view:
>> 1. Julien Rouhaud is a member of PostgreSQL Community.
>> or
>> 2. PostgreSQL Community is a member of Julien Rouhaud, Michael Paquier.
>> Or both forms are correct?
>> I think that 1 is correct.
> You're right about that ...

So, is it correct to change description of pg_monitor role from:

"Read/execute various monitoring views and functions. This role is a member of|pg_read_all_settings|,|pg_read_all_stats|  and|pg_stat_scan_tables|."

to

"Read/execute various monitoring views and functions. The roles pg_read_all_settings, pg_read_all_stats and pg_stat_scan_tables are members of this role."

I can prepare a simple patch.

>> And column header in a \du output must be something like 'members' instead of 'member of'.
> ... but this does not follow, because it's a poor analogy.  "Member of"
> means "these role(s) have been GRANT'ed to pg_monitor".

Yes, I understood this point and agree.


-- 
Pavel Luzanov
Postgres Professional: https://postgrespro.com
The Russian Postgres Company



^ permalink  raw  reply  [nested|flat] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: pg_monitor role description
  2021-05-20 06:11 pg_monitor role description PG Doc comments form <[email protected]>
  2021-05-20 07:00 ` Re: pg_monitor role description Michael Paquier <[email protected]>
  2021-05-20 08:54   ` Re: pg_monitor role description Julien Rouhaud <[email protected]>
  2021-05-20 12:44     ` Re: pg_monitor role description Pavel Luzanov <[email protected]>
  2021-05-20 16:03       ` Re: pg_monitor role description Tom Lane <[email protected]>
  2021-05-20 17:27         ` Re: pg_monitor role description Pavel Luzanov <[email protected]>
@ 2021-05-20 18:00           ` Pavel Luzanov <[email protected]>
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread

From: Pavel Luzanov @ 2021-05-20 18:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: [email protected]

Hello,

On 20.05.2021 20:27, Pavel Luzanov wrote:
> So, is it correct to change description of pg_monitor role from:
> "Read/execute various monitoring views and functions. This role is a member of|pg_read_all_settings|,|pg_read_all_stats|  and|pg_stat_scan_tables|."
> to
> "Read/execute various monitoring views and functions. The roles pg_read_all_settings, pg_read_all_stats and pg_stat_scan_tables are members of this role."
>
> I can prepare a simple patch.

Just in case, patch attached.


-- 
Pavel Luzanov
Postgres Professional: https://postgrespro.com
The Russian Postgres Company



Attachments:

  [text/x-patch] doc-pg_monitor.patch (773B, 3-doc-pg_monitor.patch)
  download | inline diff:
diff --git a/doc/src/sgml/user-manag.sgml b/doc/src/sgml/user-manag.sgml
index fe0bdb7599..00338bbebd 100644
--- a/doc/src/sgml/user-manag.sgml
+++ b/doc/src/sgml/user-manag.sgml
@@ -554,9 +554,9 @@ DROP ROLE doomed_role;
       <row>
        <entry>pg_monitor</entry>
        <entry>Read/execute various monitoring views and functions.
-       This role is a member of <literal>pg_read_all_settings</literal>,
-       <literal>pg_read_all_stats</literal> and
-       <literal>pg_stat_scan_tables</literal>.</entry>
+       The roles <literal>pg_read_all_settings</literal>,
+       <literal>pg_read_all_stats</literal> and <literal>pg_stat_scan_tables</literal>
+       are members of this role.</entry>
       </row>
       <row>
        <entry>pg_database_owner</entry>


^ permalink  raw  reply  [nested|flat] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: pg_monitor role description
  2021-05-20 06:11 pg_monitor role description PG Doc comments form <[email protected]>
  2021-05-20 07:00 ` Re: pg_monitor role description Michael Paquier <[email protected]>
  2021-05-20 08:54   ` Re: pg_monitor role description Julien Rouhaud <[email protected]>
  2021-05-20 12:44     ` Re: pg_monitor role description Pavel Luzanov <[email protected]>
  2021-05-20 16:03       ` Re: pg_monitor role description Tom Lane <[email protected]>
  2021-05-20 17:27         ` Re: pg_monitor role description Pavel Luzanov <[email protected]>
@ 2021-05-20 18:10           ` Tom Lane <[email protected]>
  2021-05-20 18:25             ` Re: pg_monitor role description Pavel Luzanov <[email protected]>
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread

From: Tom Lane @ 2021-05-20 18:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Pavel Luzanov <[email protected]>; +Cc: [email protected]

Pavel Luzanov <[email protected]> writes:
> So, is it correct to change description of pg_monitor role from:
> "Read/execute various monitoring views and functions. This role is a member of|pg_read_all_settings|,|pg_read_all_stats|  and|pg_stat_scan_tables|."
> to
> "Read/execute various monitoring views and functions. The roles pg_read_all_settings, pg_read_all_stats and pg_stat_scan_tables are members of this role."

No, it is not.  That wording implies that the built-in grants are like

	GRANT pg_monitor TO pg_read_all_settings

and so on, where the truth is the opposite.

			regards, tom lane





^ permalink  raw  reply  [nested|flat] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: pg_monitor role description
  2021-05-20 06:11 pg_monitor role description PG Doc comments form <[email protected]>
  2021-05-20 07:00 ` Re: pg_monitor role description Michael Paquier <[email protected]>
  2021-05-20 08:54   ` Re: pg_monitor role description Julien Rouhaud <[email protected]>
  2021-05-20 12:44     ` Re: pg_monitor role description Pavel Luzanov <[email protected]>
  2021-05-20 16:03       ` Re: pg_monitor role description Tom Lane <[email protected]>
  2021-05-20 17:27         ` Re: pg_monitor role description Pavel Luzanov <[email protected]>
  2021-05-20 18:10           ` Re: pg_monitor role description Tom Lane <[email protected]>
@ 2021-05-20 18:25             ` Pavel Luzanov <[email protected]>
  2021-05-22 20:27               ` Re: pg_monitor role description Pavel Luzanov <[email protected]>
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread

From: Pavel Luzanov @ 2021-05-20 18:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Tom Lane <[email protected]>; +Cc: [email protected]


On 20.05.2021 21:10, Tom Lane wrote:
> Pavel Luzanov <[email protected]> writes:
>> So, is it correct to change description of pg_monitor role from:
>> "Read/execute various monitoring views and functions. This role is a member of|pg_read_all_settings|,|pg_read_all_stats|  and|pg_stat_scan_tables|."
>> to
>> "Read/execute various monitoring views and functions. The roles pg_read_all_settings, pg_read_all_stats and pg_stat_scan_tables are members of this role."
> No, it is not.  That wording implies that the built-in grants are like
>
> 	GRANT pg_monitor TO pg_read_all_settings
>
> and so on, where the truth is the opposite.

I'm totally confused. I'm taking timeout to think about it.

-- 

Pavel Luzanov
Postgres Professional: https://postgrespro.com
The Russian Postgres Company






^ permalink  raw  reply  [nested|flat] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: pg_monitor role description
  2021-05-20 06:11 pg_monitor role description PG Doc comments form <[email protected]>
  2021-05-20 07:00 ` Re: pg_monitor role description Michael Paquier <[email protected]>
  2021-05-20 08:54   ` Re: pg_monitor role description Julien Rouhaud <[email protected]>
  2021-05-20 12:44     ` Re: pg_monitor role description Pavel Luzanov <[email protected]>
  2021-05-20 16:03       ` Re: pg_monitor role description Tom Lane <[email protected]>
  2021-05-20 17:27         ` Re: pg_monitor role description Pavel Luzanov <[email protected]>
  2021-05-20 18:10           ` Re: pg_monitor role description Tom Lane <[email protected]>
  2021-05-20 18:25             ` Re: pg_monitor role description Pavel Luzanov <[email protected]>
@ 2021-05-22 20:27               ` Pavel Luzanov <[email protected]>
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread

From: Pavel Luzanov @ 2021-05-22 20:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Tom Lane <[email protected]>; +Cc: [email protected]

On 20.05.2021 21:25, Pavel Luzanov wrote:

> I'm totally confused. I'm taking timeout to think about it.

I got it! It wasn't my day.))

This wording worked for me:

The pg_monitor role is a member of the pg_read_all_settings role, which allows its privileges to be used. Therefore, pg_monitor can get the value of any configuration parameter.

Thanks for clarifying.

-- 
Pavel Luzanov
Postgres Professional: https://postgrespro.com
The Russian Postgres Company



^ permalink  raw  reply  [nested|flat] 11+ messages in thread


end of thread, other threads:[~2021-05-22 20:27 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 11+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2021-05-20 06:11 pg_monitor role description PG Doc comments form <[email protected]>
2021-05-20 07:00 ` Michael Paquier <[email protected]>
2021-05-20 08:54   ` Julien Rouhaud <[email protected]>
2021-05-20 12:44     ` Pavel Luzanov <[email protected]>
2021-05-20 16:03       ` Tom Lane <[email protected]>
2021-05-20 16:16         ` Laurenz Albe <[email protected]>
2021-05-20 17:27         ` Pavel Luzanov <[email protected]>
2021-05-20 18:00           ` Pavel Luzanov <[email protected]>
2021-05-20 18:10           ` Tom Lane <[email protected]>
2021-05-20 18:25             ` Pavel Luzanov <[email protected]>
2021-05-22 20:27               ` Pavel Luzanov <[email protected]>

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