public inbox for [email protected]
help / color / mirror / Atom feedEnglish Grammar question
6+ messages / 5 participants
[nested] [flat]
* English Grammar question
@ 2011-03-30 08:08 Susanne Ebrecht <[email protected]>
2011-03-30 08:15 ` Re: English Grammar question Dave Page <[email protected]>
2011-03-30 08:18 ` Re: English Grammar question Simon Riggs <[email protected]>
2011-03-30 08:18 ` Re: English Grammar question Heikki Linnakangas <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 3 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Susanne Ebrecht @ 2011-03-30 08:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pgsql-docs
Hello,
during translation the history.sgml - I found the following sentences in
http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.0/static/history.html
"The design of the rule system at that time was described in /The design
of the POSTGRES rules system/
<http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.0/static/biblio.html#STON87A;. The
rationale and architecture of the storage manager were detailed in /The
design of the POSTGRES storage system
<http://db.cs.berkeley.edu/papers/ERL-M87-06.pdf>/";
I am not sure if the grammar is correct here.
My feeling says it should be:
"is decribed" and "are detailed" instead of "was and were"
I am pretty sure these books still exist.
Susanne
--
Susanne Ebrecht - 2ndQuadrant
PostgreSQL Development, 24x7 Support, Training and Services
www.2ndQuadrant.com
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: English Grammar question
2011-03-30 08:08 English Grammar question Susanne Ebrecht <[email protected]>
@ 2011-03-30 08:15 ` Dave Page <[email protected]>
2 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Dave Page @ 2011-03-30 08:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Susanne Ebrecht <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-docs
On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 9:08 AM, Susanne Ebrecht
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> during translation the history.sgml - I found the following sentences in
>
> http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.0/static/history.html
>
> "The design of the rule system at that time was described in The design of
> the POSTGRES rules system. The rationale and architecture of the storage
> manager were detailed in The design of the POSTGRES storage system "
>
> I am not sure if the grammar is correct here.
>
> My feeling says it should be:
>
> "is decribed" and "are detailed" instead of "was and were"
>
> I am pretty sure these books still exist.
It seems fine to me. The tense refers to when it was written, not when
the papers were available (or not).
--
Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake
EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: English Grammar question
2011-03-30 08:08 English Grammar question Susanne Ebrecht <[email protected]>
@ 2011-03-30 08:18 ` Simon Riggs <[email protected]>
2 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Simon Riggs @ 2011-03-30 08:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Susanne Ebrecht <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-docs
On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 9:08 AM, Susanne Ebrecht
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> during translation the history.sgml - I found the following sentences in
>
> http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.0/static/history.html
>
> "The design of the rule system at that time was described in The design of
> the POSTGRES rules system. The rationale and architecture of the storage
> manager were detailed in The design of the POSTGRES storage system "
>
> I am not sure if the grammar is correct here.
>
> My feeling says it should be:
>
> "is decribed" and "are detailed" instead of "was and were"
>
> I am pretty sure these books still exist.
I think both are correct, but you are right that those books still
exist and so it looks archaic and can be reworded.
--
Simon Riggs http://www.2ndQuadrant.com/
PostgreSQL Development, 24x7 Support, Training & Services
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: English Grammar question
2011-03-30 08:08 English Grammar question Susanne Ebrecht <[email protected]>
@ 2011-03-30 08:18 ` Heikki Linnakangas <[email protected]>
2011-03-31 16:11 ` Re: English Grammar question Robert Haas <[email protected]>
2 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Heikki Linnakangas @ 2011-03-30 08:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Susanne Ebrecht <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-docs
On 30.03.2011 11:08, Susanne Ebrecht wrote:
> Hello,
>
> during translation the history.sgml - I found the following sentences in
>
> http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.0/static/history.html
>
> "The design of the rule system at that time was described in /The design
> of the POSTGRES rules system/
> <http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.0/static/biblio.html#STON87A;. The
> rationale and architecture of the storage manager were detailed in /The
> design of the POSTGRES storage system
> <http://db.cs.berkeley.edu/papers/ERL-M87-06.pdf>/";
>
> I am not sure if the grammar is correct here.
>
> My feeling says it should be:
>
> "is decribed" and "are detailed" instead of "was and were"
>
> I am pretty sure these books still exist.
Both would be correct, but with a slightly different meaning. What it
means now is that someone wrote a description of (= described) the
design in that book. If you change it to "is described", it means that
there is a description on the (old) design, with nothing said about when
the description was written.
The difference becomes more clear if you change the sentence to active form:
"[Some unnamed person] described the design of the rule system at that
time in /The design of the POSTGRES rules system" (was described)
vs.
"/The design of the POSTGRES rules system/ describes the design of the
rules system at that time" (is described)
--
Heikki Linnakangas
EnterpriseDB http://www.enterprisedb.com
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: English Grammar question
2011-03-30 08:08 English Grammar question Susanne Ebrecht <[email protected]>
2011-03-30 08:18 ` Re: English Grammar question Heikki Linnakangas <[email protected]>
@ 2011-03-31 16:11 ` Robert Haas <[email protected]>
2011-04-02 07:56 ` Re: refer to books in footnote Susanne Ebrecht <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Robert Haas @ 2011-03-31 16:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Heikki Linnakangas <[email protected]>; +Cc: Susanne Ebrecht <[email protected]>; pgsql-docs
On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 4:18 AM, Heikki Linnakangas
<[email protected]> wrote:
> On 30.03.2011 11:08, Susanne Ebrecht wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> during translation the history.sgml - I found the following sentences in
>>
>> http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.0/static/history.html
>>
>> "The design of the rule system at that time was described in /The design
>> of the POSTGRES rules system/
>> <http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.0/static/biblio.html#STON87A;. The
>> rationale and architecture of the storage manager were detailed in /The
>> design of the POSTGRES storage system
>> <http://db.cs.berkeley.edu/papers/ERL-M87-06.pdf>/";
>>
>> I am not sure if the grammar is correct here.
>>
>> My feeling says it should be:
>>
>> "is decribed" and "are detailed" instead of "was and were"
>>
>> I am pretty sure these books still exist.
>
> Both would be correct, but with a slightly different meaning. What it means
> now is that someone wrote a description of (= described) the design in that
> book. If you change it to "is described", it means that there is a
> description on the (old) design, with nothing said about when the
> description was written.
I think this is a correct analysis of grammar - both are correct, with
slightly different meanings. I actually find both phrasings a bit
awkward, though. What we're really trying to do here is provide the
links, but that is sometimes better done in a footnote or bibliography
than in the middle of a body of text.
--
Robert Haas
EnterpriseDB: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: refer to books in footnote
2011-03-30 08:08 English Grammar question Susanne Ebrecht <[email protected]>
2011-03-30 08:18 ` Re: English Grammar question Heikki Linnakangas <[email protected]>
2011-03-31 16:11 ` Re: English Grammar question Robert Haas <[email protected]>
@ 2011-04-02 07:56 ` Susanne Ebrecht <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Susanne Ebrecht @ 2011-04-02 07:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Robert Haas <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-docs
On 31.03.2011 18:11, Robert Haas wrote:
> I actually find both phrasings a bit
> ... What we're really trying to do here is provide the
> links, but that is sometimes better done in a footnote or bibliography
> than in the middle of a body of text.
>
Honestly, I like the idea for the future.
I think the effort doing it in existing docs is too high - but for future
docs it is great.
I have another argument for it:
During translating the tutorial I found another sentence - referring books
for SQL beginners.
After very long thinking and after chatting about it with Peter - I
skipped the
sentence German translation.
I translate the documentation into German mostly for ppl who are not able
to speak English. It is not a good style to tell people here that when
they want
to learn SQL they should read English books - besides
there is a translated version of the books - which wasn't the case.
I would not have such a big problem here with translation when links to
books
would be just in a footnote - it don't look such painful to refer to
English books in
footnotes, when the books aren't available in German.
Just my 2Cent,
Susanne
--
Susanne Ebrecht - 2ndQuadrant
PostgreSQL Development, 24x7 Support, Training and Services
www.2ndQuadrant.com
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 6+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2011-04-02 07:56 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 6+ messages (download: mbox mbox.gz follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2011-03-30 08:08 English Grammar question Susanne Ebrecht <[email protected]>
2011-03-30 08:15 ` Dave Page <[email protected]>
2011-03-30 08:18 ` Simon Riggs <[email protected]>
2011-03-30 08:18 ` Heikki Linnakangas <[email protected]>
2011-03-31 16:11 ` Robert Haas <[email protected]>
2011-04-02 07:56 ` Re: refer to books in footnote Susanne Ebrecht <[email protected]>
This inbox is served by agora; see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox