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per feedback I received directly, pg_dump manpage patch
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* per feedback I received directly, pg_dump manpage patch
@ 2015-05-27 23:17 Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
  2015-05-28 01:31 ` Re: per feedback I received directly, pg_dump manpage patch Alvaro Herrera <[email protected]>
  2015-05-28 18:16 ` Re: per feedback I received directly, pg_dump manpage patch Peter Eisentraut <[email protected]>
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 9+ messages in thread

From: Joshua D. Drake @ 2015-05-27 23:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: pgsql-docs

The man page does not clearly state that pg_dump will not dump things 
like users or roles. It does mention briefly in the notes section that 
pg_dumpall is needed for items that are set via SET but that isn't very 
clear on the other items.
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Attachments:

  [text/x-patch] pg_dump.man.diff (654B, 2-pg_dump.man.diff)
  download | inline diff:
diff --git a/doc/src/sgml/ref/pg_dump.sgml b/doc/src/sgml/ref/pg_dump.sgml
index a6e7b08..4cb647c 100644
--- a/doc/src/sgml/ref/pg_dump.sgml
+++ b/doc/src/sgml/ref/pg_dump.sgml
@@ -45,6 +45,14 @@ PostgreSQL documentation
    accessing the database (readers or writers).
   </para>
 
+  <warning>
+  <para>
+  <xref linkend="app-pg-dumpall"> is required for a full backup as 
+  <application>pg_dump</application> does not backup the required global
+  options such as user or roles.
+  </para>
+  </warning>
+
   <para>
    Dumps can be output in script or archive file formats. Script
    dumps are plain-text files containing the SQL commands required


^ permalink  raw  reply  [nested|flat] 9+ messages in thread

* Re: per feedback I received directly, pg_dump manpage patch
  2015-05-27 23:17 per feedback I received directly, pg_dump manpage patch Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
@ 2015-05-28 01:31 ` Alvaro Herrera <[email protected]>
  2015-05-28 01:37   ` Re: per feedback I received directly, pg_dump manpage patch Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
  2015-05-28 18:18   ` Re: per feedback I received directly, pg_dump manpage patch Peter Eisentraut <[email protected]>
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 9+ messages in thread

From: Alvaro Herrera @ 2015-05-28 01:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-docs

Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> The man page does not clearly state that pg_dump will not dump things like
> users or roles. It does mention briefly in the notes section that pg_dumpall
> is needed for items that are set via SET but that isn't very clear on the
> other items.

I agree that we need a warning about this, but I think it should be a
bit more generic rather than focused exclusively on pg_dumpall; perhaps
something like "global objs such as roles/tblspcs should be backed up
separately, for example using pg_dumpall".

I didn't check the location of the warning in your patch, or whether a
warning is really appropriate rather than, say, <note> or a plain
<para>.

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PostgreSQL Development, 24x7 Support, Remote DBA, Training & Services


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^ permalink  raw  reply  [nested|flat] 9+ messages in thread

* Re: per feedback I received directly, pg_dump manpage patch
  2015-05-27 23:17 per feedback I received directly, pg_dump manpage patch Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
  2015-05-28 01:31 ` Re: per feedback I received directly, pg_dump manpage patch Alvaro Herrera <[email protected]>
@ 2015-05-28 01:37   ` Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
  2015-05-28 01:53     ` Re: per feedback I received directly, pg_dump manpage patch Alvaro Herrera <[email protected]>
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread

From: Joshua D. Drake @ 2015-05-28 01:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Alvaro Herrera <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-docs


On 05/27/2015 06:31 PM, Alvaro Herrera wrote:
>
> Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>> The man page does not clearly state that pg_dump will not dump things like
>> users or roles. It does mention briefly in the notes section that pg_dumpall
>> is needed for items that are set via SET but that isn't very clear on the
>> other items.
>
> I agree that we need a warning about this, but I think it should be a
> bit more generic rather than focused exclusively on pg_dumpall; perhaps
> something like "global objs such as roles/tblspcs should be backed up
> separately, for example using pg_dumpall".

As the only way to back up global objects is pg_dumpall....?


>
> I didn't check the location of the warning in your patch, or whether a
> warning is really appropriate rather than, say, <note> or a plain
> <para>.

The warning is directly after the first paragraph. I thought about using 
<note> but I think this does warrant a <warning>. You can't actually 
restore a database correctly without pg_dump + pg_dumpall (in this context).

JD



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^ permalink  raw  reply  [nested|flat] 9+ messages in thread

* Re: per feedback I received directly, pg_dump manpage patch
  2015-05-27 23:17 per feedback I received directly, pg_dump manpage patch Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
  2015-05-28 01:31 ` Re: per feedback I received directly, pg_dump manpage patch Alvaro Herrera <[email protected]>
  2015-05-28 01:37   ` Re: per feedback I received directly, pg_dump manpage patch Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
@ 2015-05-28 01:53     ` Alvaro Herrera <[email protected]>
  2015-05-28 01:57       ` Re: per feedback I received directly, pg_dump manpage patch Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread

From: Alvaro Herrera @ 2015-05-28 01:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-docs

Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> 
> On 05/27/2015 06:31 PM, Alvaro Herrera wrote:
> >
> >Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> >>The man page does not clearly state that pg_dump will not dump things like
> >>users or roles. It does mention briefly in the notes section that pg_dumpall
> >>is needed for items that are set via SET but that isn't very clear on the
> >>other items.
> >
> >I agree that we need a warning about this, but I think it should be a
> >bit more generic rather than focused exclusively on pg_dumpall; perhaps
> >something like "global objs such as roles/tblspcs should be backed up
> >separately, for example using pg_dumpall".
> 
> As the only way to back up global objects is pg_dumpall....?

Well, my point is that the roles could be set up separately by other
means.

> >I didn't check the location of the warning in your patch, or whether a
> >warning is really appropriate rather than, say, <note> or a plain
> ><para>.
> 
> The warning is directly after the first paragraph. I thought about using
> <note> but I think this does warrant a <warning>. You can't actually restore
> a database correctly without pg_dump + pg_dumpall (in this context).

Okay, +0 there.  (That is, I don't disagree with you but I won't stand
in the way of others disagreeing on that point.)

-- 
Álvaro Herrera                http://www.2ndQuadrant.com/
PostgreSQL Development, 24x7 Support, Remote DBA, Training & Services


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^ permalink  raw  reply  [nested|flat] 9+ messages in thread

* Re: per feedback I received directly, pg_dump manpage patch
  2015-05-27 23:17 per feedback I received directly, pg_dump manpage patch Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
  2015-05-28 01:31 ` Re: per feedback I received directly, pg_dump manpage patch Alvaro Herrera <[email protected]>
  2015-05-28 01:37   ` Re: per feedback I received directly, pg_dump manpage patch Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
  2015-05-28 01:53     ` Re: per feedback I received directly, pg_dump manpage patch Alvaro Herrera <[email protected]>
@ 2015-05-28 01:57       ` Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread

From: Joshua D. Drake @ 2015-05-28 01:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Alvaro Herrera <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-docs


On 05/27/2015 06:53 PM, Alvaro Herrera wrote:

>> As the only way to back up global objects is pg_dumpall....?
>
> Well, my point is that the roles could be set up separately by other
> means.

True but this is about pg_dump right? I mean contextually it doesn't 
matter if they can issue a separate SQL command as we are talking about 
getting a backup/dump that makes it so you don't have to issue a 
separate SQL command.

JD


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^ permalink  raw  reply  [nested|flat] 9+ messages in thread

* Re: per feedback I received directly, pg_dump manpage patch
  2015-05-27 23:17 per feedback I received directly, pg_dump manpage patch Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
  2015-05-28 01:31 ` Re: per feedback I received directly, pg_dump manpage patch Alvaro Herrera <[email protected]>
@ 2015-05-28 18:18   ` Peter Eisentraut <[email protected]>
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread

From: Peter Eisentraut @ 2015-05-28 18:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Alvaro Herrera <[email protected]>; Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-docs

On 5/27/15 9:31 PM, Alvaro Herrera wrote:
> I didn't check the location of the warning in your patch, or whether a
> warning is really appropriate rather than, say, <note> or a plain
> <para>.

The problem is that every time we get a bug report that some user
tripped over something that was not clear in the documentation, the
patch wants to add a note or warning, which causes some parts of the
documentation to degrade into just a series of warning boxes.  The fewer
warning boxes there are, however, the more likely the user will actually
read all of the documentation, I think.



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^ permalink  raw  reply  [nested|flat] 9+ messages in thread

* Re: per feedback I received directly, pg_dump manpage patch
  2015-05-27 23:17 per feedback I received directly, pg_dump manpage patch Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
@ 2015-05-28 18:16 ` Peter Eisentraut <[email protected]>
  2015-05-28 19:27   ` Re: per feedback I received directly, pg_dump manpage patch Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread

From: Peter Eisentraut @ 2015-05-28 18:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>; pgsql-docs

On 5/27/15 7:17 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> The man page does not clearly state that pg_dump will not dump things
> like users or roles. It does mention briefly in the notes section that
> pg_dumpall is needed for items that are set via SET but that isn't very
> clear on the other items.

How about this patch?



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Attachments:

  [text/x-diff] pg_dump-note.patch (666B, 2-pg_dump-note.patch)
  download | inline diff:
diff --git a/doc/src/sgml/ref/pg_dump.sgml b/doc/src/sgml/ref/pg_dump.sgml
index a6e7b08..33a1902 100644
--- a/doc/src/sgml/ref/pg_dump.sgml
+++ b/doc/src/sgml/ref/pg_dump.sgml
@@ -46,6 +46,12 @@
   </para>
 
   <para>
+   <application>pg_dump</application> only dumps a single database.  To save
+   global objects that are common to all databases in a cluster, such as roles
+   and tablespaces, use <xref linkend="app-pg-dumpall">.
+  </para>
+
+  <para>
    Dumps can be output in script or archive file formats. Script
    dumps are plain-text files containing the SQL commands required
    to reconstruct the database to the state it was in at the time it was


^ permalink  raw  reply  [nested|flat] 9+ messages in thread

* Re: per feedback I received directly, pg_dump manpage patch
  2015-05-27 23:17 per feedback I received directly, pg_dump manpage patch Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
  2015-05-28 18:16 ` Re: per feedback I received directly, pg_dump manpage patch Peter Eisentraut <[email protected]>
@ 2015-05-28 19:27   ` Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
  2015-06-14 01:50     ` Re: per feedback I received directly, pg_dump manpage patch Peter Eisentraut <[email protected]>
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread

From: Joshua D. Drake @ 2015-05-28 19:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Peter Eisentraut <[email protected]>; pgsql-docs


On 05/28/2015 11:16 AM, Peter Eisentraut wrote:
> On 5/27/15 7:17 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>> The man page does not clearly state that pg_dump will not dump things
>> like users or roles. It does mention briefly in the notes section that
>> pg_dumpall is needed for items that are set via SET but that isn't very
>> clear on the other items.
>
> How about this patch?
>

I would change the word save to backup but other than that, looks good.

JD

>
>
>


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^ permalink  raw  reply  [nested|flat] 9+ messages in thread

* Re: per feedback I received directly, pg_dump manpage patch
  2015-05-27 23:17 per feedback I received directly, pg_dump manpage patch Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
  2015-05-28 18:16 ` Re: per feedback I received directly, pg_dump manpage patch Peter Eisentraut <[email protected]>
  2015-05-28 19:27   ` Re: per feedback I received directly, pg_dump manpage patch Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
@ 2015-06-14 01:50     ` Peter Eisentraut <[email protected]>
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread

From: Peter Eisentraut @ 2015-06-14 01:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>; pgsql-docs

On 5/28/15 3:27 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> 
> On 05/28/2015 11:16 AM, Peter Eisentraut wrote:
>> On 5/27/15 7:17 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>>> The man page does not clearly state that pg_dump will not dump things
>>> like users or roles. It does mention briefly in the notes section that
>>> pg_dumpall is needed for items that are set via SET but that isn't very
>>> clear on the other items.
>>
>> How about this patch?
>>
> 
> I would change the word save to backup but other than that, looks good.

committed



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^ permalink  raw  reply  [nested|flat] 9+ messages in thread


end of thread, other threads:[~2015-06-14 01:50 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 9+ messages (download: mbox mbox.gz follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2015-05-27 23:17 per feedback I received directly, pg_dump manpage patch Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
2015-05-28 01:31 ` Alvaro Herrera <[email protected]>
2015-05-28 01:37   ` Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
2015-05-28 01:53     ` Alvaro Herrera <[email protected]>
2015-05-28 01:57       ` Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
2015-05-28 18:18   ` Peter Eisentraut <[email protected]>
2015-05-28 18:16 ` Peter Eisentraut <[email protected]>
2015-05-28 19:27   ` Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
2015-06-14 01:50     ` Peter Eisentraut <[email protected]>

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