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* Proposal: Drop support for Internet Explorer
@ 2020-04-07 07:36 Dave Page <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 2 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Dave Page @ 2020-04-07 07:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pgAdmin Support <[email protected]>; pgadmin-hackers <[email protected]>
All,
Internet Explorer has long been superseded by Microsoft Edge, and even that
has recently moved to using Chromium as it's core engine. Version 11 was
originally released in 2013, and though Microsoft have committed to
supporting it until 2025, as far as I can tell there have been no notable
new features in almost it's entire lifetime, and certainly in recent years
Microsoft have only been releasing security fixes.
As you can imagine, supporting Internet Explorer has a non-trivial cost to
it for the pgAdmin project. Not only do we need to test with it as well as
Edge, but we also need to write code, CSS and HTML that is fully compatible
with what essentially is a 7 year old browser. By comparison, for all
other browsers we typically aim to support releases no more than 2 years
old.
I therefore propose that we officially drop support for Internet Explorer.
Practically this means that we would not test with it, and anyone reporting
a bug with it would be told to use an alternate browser.
Objections/comments please?
Thanks!
--
Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake
EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: Proposal: Drop support for Internet Explorer
@ 2020-04-07 11:41 Dave Caughey <[email protected]>
parent: Dave Page <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 2 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Dave Caughey @ 2020-04-07 11:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dave Page <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgAdmin Support <[email protected]>; pgadmin-hackers <[email protected]>
Check the analytics... I think you'll find dropping it is a non-issue. In
my own web service, I found that IE (all versions) constituted only about
1% of my users.
So I dropped support for IE (since it was preventing me from fully adopting
ES6), and there was not a single complaint from my users.
Cheers,
Dave
On Tue., Apr. 7, 2020, 3:36 a.m. Dave Page, <[email protected]> wrote:
> All,
>
> Internet Explorer has long been superseded by Microsoft Edge, and even
> that has recently moved to using Chromium as it's core engine. Version 11
> was originally released in 2013, and though Microsoft have committed to
> supporting it until 2025, as far as I can tell there have been no notable
> new features in almost it's entire lifetime, and certainly in recent years
> Microsoft have only been releasing security fixes.
>
> As you can imagine, supporting Internet Explorer has a non-trivial cost to
> it for the pgAdmin project. Not only do we need to test with it as well as
> Edge, but we also need to write code, CSS and HTML that is fully compatible
> with what essentially is a 7 year old browser. By comparison, for all
> other browsers we typically aim to support releases no more than 2 years
> old.
>
> I therefore propose that we officially drop support for Internet Explorer.
> Practically this means that we would not test with it, and anyone reporting
> a bug with it would be told to use an alternate browser.
>
> Objections/comments please?
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> Dave Page
> Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
> Twitter: @pgsnake
>
> EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
> The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
>
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: Proposal: Drop support for Internet Explorer
@ 2020-04-07 12:00 Dave Page <[email protected]>
parent: Dave Caughey <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Dave Page @ 2020-04-07 12:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dave Caughey <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgAdmin Support <[email protected]>; pgadmin-hackers <[email protected]>
On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 12:41 PM Dave Caughey <[email protected]> wrote:
> Check the analytics... I think you'll find dropping it is a non-issue. In
> my own web service, I found that IE (all versions) constituted only about
> 1% of my users.
>
Good point - 1.9% of the visitors to the website were on IE this week. 1.8
of those were on IE11. We even had one hit from IE5...
By comparison, 72% of users were on Chrome, 13% on Firefox, with 5.5% each
for Safari and Edge.
>
> So I dropped support for IE (since it was preventing me from fully
> adopting ES6), and there was not a single complaint from my users.
>
> Cheers,
> Dave
>
> On Tue., Apr. 7, 2020, 3:36 a.m. Dave Page, <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> All,
>>
>> Internet Explorer has long been superseded by Microsoft Edge, and even
>> that has recently moved to using Chromium as it's core engine. Version 11
>> was originally released in 2013, and though Microsoft have committed to
>> supporting it until 2025, as far as I can tell there have been no notable
>> new features in almost it's entire lifetime, and certainly in recent years
>> Microsoft have only been releasing security fixes.
>>
>> As you can imagine, supporting Internet Explorer has a non-trivial cost
>> to it for the pgAdmin project. Not only do we need to test with it as well
>> as Edge, but we also need to write code, CSS and HTML that is fully
>> compatible with what essentially is a 7 year old browser. By comparison,
>> for all other browsers we typically aim to support releases no more than 2
>> years old.
>>
>> I therefore propose that we officially drop support for Internet
>> Explorer. Practically this means that we would not test with it, and anyone
>> reporting a bug with it would be told to use an alternate browser.
>>
>> Objections/comments please?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> --
>> Dave Page
>> Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
>> Twitter: @pgsnake
>>
>> EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
>> The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
>>
>
--
Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake
EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: Proposal: Drop support for Internet Explorer
@ 2020-04-07 12:34 richard coleman <[email protected]>
parent: Dave Page <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: richard coleman @ 2020-04-07 12:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dave Page <[email protected]>; +Cc: Dave Caughey <[email protected]>; pgAdmin Support <[email protected]>; pgadmin-hackers <[email protected]>
Dave,
Seeing that IE isn't standards compliant and not only is not being further
developed, but Microsoft is actively discouraging its use, it is probably
time to drop support for it.
I would caution *against* using browser analytics as any sort of proxy for
use. Since pgAdmin 4 lacks a UI of its own, I rely on an instance of
Chromium (or Vivalidi, or Firefox, depending on the machine) to run pgAdmin
under. In every case, the browser that I am *running* pgAdmin 4 under is
*not* the same browser that I use to browse websites, and so would never
show up in your analytics.
Just something to keep in mind,
rik.
On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 8:00 AM Dave Page <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 12:41 PM Dave Caughey <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Check the analytics... I think you'll find dropping it is a non-issue. In
>> my own web service, I found that IE (all versions) constituted only about
>> 1% of my users.
>>
>
> Good point - 1.9% of the visitors to the website were on IE this week. 1.8
> of those were on IE11. We even had one hit from IE5...
>
> By comparison, 72% of users were on Chrome, 13% on Firefox, with 5.5% each
> for Safari and Edge.
>
>
>>
>> So I dropped support for IE (since it was preventing me from fully
>> adopting ES6), and there was not a single complaint from my users.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Dave
>>
>> On Tue., Apr. 7, 2020, 3:36 a.m. Dave Page, <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> All,
>>>
>>> Internet Explorer has long been superseded by Microsoft Edge, and even
>>> that has recently moved to using Chromium as it's core engine. Version 11
>>> was originally released in 2013, and though Microsoft have committed to
>>> supporting it until 2025, as far as I can tell there have been no notable
>>> new features in almost it's entire lifetime, and certainly in recent years
>>> Microsoft have only been releasing security fixes.
>>>
>>> As you can imagine, supporting Internet Explorer has a non-trivial cost
>>> to it for the pgAdmin project. Not only do we need to test with it as well
>>> as Edge, but we also need to write code, CSS and HTML that is fully
>>> compatible with what essentially is a 7 year old browser. By comparison,
>>> for all other browsers we typically aim to support releases no more than 2
>>> years old.
>>>
>>> I therefore propose that we officially drop support for Internet
>>> Explorer. Practically this means that we would not test with it, and anyone
>>> reporting a bug with it would be told to use an alternate browser.
>>>
>>> Objections/comments please?
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> --
>>> Dave Page
>>> Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
>>> Twitter: @pgsnake
>>>
>>> EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
>>> The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
>>>
>>
>
> --
> Dave Page
> Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
> Twitter: @pgsnake
>
> EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
> The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
>
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: Proposal: Drop support for Internet Explorer
@ 2020-04-07 18:45 Jack Royal-Gordon <[email protected]>
parent: Dave Caughey <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Jack Royal-Gordon @ 2020-04-07 18:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dave Caughey <[email protected]>; +Cc: Dave Page <[email protected]>; pgAdmin Support <[email protected]>; pgadmin-hackers <[email protected]>
I’ve had a similar response from not supporting IE since about 2016. A couple users asked about it and had no problem when I told them we didn’t support it. Mostly, they switched to Chrome.
👍👍
> On Apr 7, 2020, at 4:41 AM, Dave Caughey <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Check the analytics... I think you'll find dropping it is a non-issue. In my own web service, I found that IE (all versions) constituted only about 1% of my users.
>
> So I dropped support for IE (since it was preventing me from fully adopting ES6), and there was not a single complaint from my users.
>
> Cheers,
> Dave
>
> On Tue., Apr. 7, 2020, 3:36 a.m. Dave Page, <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> All,
>
> Internet Explorer has long been superseded by Microsoft Edge, and even that has recently moved to using Chromium as it's core engine. Version 11 was originally released in 2013, and though Microsoft have committed to supporting it until 2025, as far as I can tell there have been no notable new features in almost it's entire lifetime, and certainly in recent years Microsoft have only been releasing security fixes.
>
> As you can imagine, supporting Internet Explorer has a non-trivial cost to it for the pgAdmin project. Not only do we need to test with it as well as Edge, but we also need to write code, CSS and HTML that is fully compatible with what essentially is a 7 year old browser. By comparison, for all other browsers we typically aim to support releases no more than 2 years old.
>
> I therefore propose that we officially drop support for Internet Explorer. Practically this means that we would not test with it, and anyone reporting a bug with it would be told to use an alternate browser.
>
> Objections/comments please?
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> Dave Page
> Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com <http://pgsnake.blogspot.com/;
> Twitter: @pgsnake
>
> EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com <http://www.enterprisedb.com/;
> The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 19+ messages in thread
* RE: Proposal: Drop support for Internet Explorer
@ 2020-04-07 19:06 Ken Benson <[email protected]>
parent: Jack Royal-Gordon <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Ken Benson @ 2020-04-07 19:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Jack Royal-Gordon <[email protected]>; Dave Caughey <[email protected]>; +Cc: Dave Page <[email protected]>; pgAdmin Support <[email protected]>; pgadmin-hackers <[email protected]>
From: Jack Royal-Gordon <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2020 11:45 AM
To: Dave Caughey <[email protected]>
Cc: Dave Page <[email protected]>; pgAdmin Support <[email protected]>; pgadmin-hackers <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Proposal: Drop support for Internet Explorer
I’ve had a similar response from not supporting IE since about 2016. A couple users asked about it and had no problem when I told them we didn’t support it. Mostly, they switched to Chrome.
👍👍
On Apr 7, 2020, at 4:41 AM, Dave Caughey <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Check the analytics... I think you'll find dropping it is a non-issue. In my own web service, I found that IE (all versions) constituted only about 1% of my users.
So I dropped support for IE (since it was preventing me from fully adopting ES6), and there was not a single complaint from my users.
Cheers,
Dave
On Tue., Apr. 7, 2020, 3:36 a.m. Dave Page, <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
All,
Internet Explorer has long been superseded by Microsoft Edge, and even that has recently moved to using Chromium as it's core engine. Version 11 was originally released in 2013, and though Microsoft have committed to supporting it until 2025, as far as I can tell there have been no notable new features in almost it's entire lifetime, and certainly in recent years Microsoft have only been releasing security fixes.
As you can imagine, supporting Internet Explorer has a non-trivial cost to it for the pgAdmin project. Not only do we need to test with it as well as Edge, but we also need to write code, CSS and HTML that is fully compatible with what essentially is a 7 year old browser. By comparison, for all other browsers we typically aim to support releases no more than 2 years old.
I therefore propose that we officially drop support for Internet Explorer. Practically this means that we would not test with it, and anyone reporting a bug with it would be told to use an alternate browser.
Objections/comments please?
Thanks!
[Ken Benson]
The only caution is – I’ve recently (within the past several months) dealt with clients that are locked into IE11 – as a corporate rule.
Ken Benson | ken @ infowerks-dot-com
--
Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com<http://pgsnake.blogspot.com/;
Twitter: @pgsnake
EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com<http://www.enterprisedb.com/;
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: Proposal: Drop support for Internet Explorer
@ 2020-04-08 08:17 Dave Page <[email protected]>
parent: richard coleman <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Dave Page @ 2020-04-08 08:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: richard coleman <[email protected]>; +Cc: Dave Caughey <[email protected]>; pgAdmin Support <[email protected]>; pgadmin-hackers <[email protected]>
On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 1:34 PM richard coleman <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Dave,
>
> Seeing that IE isn't standards compliant and not only is not being further
> developed, but Microsoft is actively discouraging its use, it is probably
> time to drop support for it.
>
> I would caution *against* using browser analytics as any sort of proxy for
> use. Since pgAdmin 4 lacks a UI of its own, I rely on an instance of
> Chromium (or Vivalidi, or Firefox, depending on the machine) to run pgAdmin
> under. In every case, the browser that I am *running* pgAdmin 4 under is
> *not* the same browser that I use to browse websites, and so would never
> show up in your analytics.
>
Understood. Analytics are just one source of information, and certainly not
conclusive as you point out. My suspicion is that your situation is not the
norm for most people, but that really is just a suspicion.
>
> Just something to keep in mind,
>
> rik.
>
> On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 8:00 AM Dave Page <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 12:41 PM Dave Caughey <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Check the analytics... I think you'll find dropping it is a non-issue.
>>> In my own web service, I found that IE (all versions) constituted only
>>> about 1% of my users.
>>>
>>
>> Good point - 1.9% of the visitors to the website were on IE this week.
>> 1.8 of those were on IE11. We even had one hit from IE5...
>>
>> By comparison, 72% of users were on Chrome, 13% on Firefox, with 5.5%
>> each for Safari and Edge.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> So I dropped support for IE (since it was preventing me from fully
>>> adopting ES6), and there was not a single complaint from my users.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> On Tue., Apr. 7, 2020, 3:36 a.m. Dave Page, <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> All,
>>>>
>>>> Internet Explorer has long been superseded by Microsoft Edge, and even
>>>> that has recently moved to using Chromium as it's core engine. Version 11
>>>> was originally released in 2013, and though Microsoft have committed to
>>>> supporting it until 2025, as far as I can tell there have been no notable
>>>> new features in almost it's entire lifetime, and certainly in recent years
>>>> Microsoft have only been releasing security fixes.
>>>>
>>>> As you can imagine, supporting Internet Explorer has a non-trivial cost
>>>> to it for the pgAdmin project. Not only do we need to test with it as well
>>>> as Edge, but we also need to write code, CSS and HTML that is fully
>>>> compatible with what essentially is a 7 year old browser. By comparison,
>>>> for all other browsers we typically aim to support releases no more than 2
>>>> years old.
>>>>
>>>> I therefore propose that we officially drop support for Internet
>>>> Explorer. Practically this means that we would not test with it, and anyone
>>>> reporting a bug with it would be told to use an alternate browser.
>>>>
>>>> Objections/comments please?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Dave Page
>>>> Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
>>>> Twitter: @pgsnake
>>>>
>>>> EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
>>>> The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Dave Page
>> Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
>> Twitter: @pgsnake
>>
>> EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
>> The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
>>
>
--
Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake
EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: Proposal: Drop support for Internet Explorer
@ 2020-04-08 23:26 Darren Duncan <[email protected]>
parent: Dave Page <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 2 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Darren Duncan @ 2020-04-08 23:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pgAdmin Support <[email protected]>; pgadmin-hackers <[email protected]>
If its hard to know how many people are actually using Internet Explorer:
You could make the next release of pgAdmin display a message occasionally to
users of Internet Explorer saying that Internet Explorer will no longer be
officially supported in a future version, and when that version comes the
message says now no longer supported.
You can then see how many people contact you about this to express concern.
-- Darren Duncan
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: Proposal: Drop support for Internet Explorer
@ 2020-04-09 11:36 Dave Page <[email protected]>
parent: Darren Duncan <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Dave Page @ 2020-04-09 11:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Darren Duncan <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgAdmin Support <[email protected]>; pgadmin-hackers <[email protected]>; Akshay Joshi <[email protected]>
Hi
On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 12:26 AM Darren Duncan <[email protected]>
wrote:
> If its hard to know how many people are actually using Internet Explorer:
>
> You could make the next release of pgAdmin display a message occasionally
> to
> users of Internet Explorer saying that Internet Explorer will no longer be
> officially supported in a future version, and when that version comes the
> message says now no longer supported.
>
> You can then see how many people contact you about this to express concern.
>
Good idea. I've hacked up a patch to warn users if they're using a
deprecated or unsupported browser.
CCing Akshay for a review :-)
--
Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake
EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
Attachments:
[application/octet-stream] Warn_if_using_a_deprecated_or_unsupported_browser.patch (3.1K, 3-Warn_if_using_a_deprecated_or_unsupported_browser.patch)
download | inline diff:
Index: web/pgadmin/browser/templates/browser/browser.html
IDEA additional info:
Subsystem: com.intellij.openapi.diff.impl.patch.CharsetEP
<+>UTF-8
===================================================================
--- web/pgadmin/browser/templates/browser/browser.html (date 1586431105718)
+++ web/pgadmin/browser/templates/browser/browser.html (date 1586431105718)
@@ -0,0 +1,5 @@
+<p>{{ _('Your browser was detected as {0} version {1}, which is either
+ deprecated or not supported by pgAdmin 4.').format(browser, version) }}</p>
+<p>{{ _('Please visit the <a class="alert-link"
+ href="https://www.pgadmin.org/faq/#11" target="_new">FAQ</a> to see the
+ supported browsers.') }}</p>
Index: web/config.py
IDEA additional info:
Subsystem: com.intellij.openapi.diff.impl.patch.CharsetEP
<+>UTF-8
===================================================================
--- web/config.py (revision 8a550b569ff5aadb8c2d99cbef4a4233ab00e413)
+++ web/config.py (date 1586430908666)
@@ -359,6 +359,9 @@
CA_FILE = os.path.join(os.path.dirname(os.path.realpath(__file__)),
"cacert.pem")
+# Check if the detected browser is supported
+CHECK_SUPPORTED_BROWSER = True
+
##########################################################################
# Storage Manager storage url config settings
# If user sets STORAGE_DIR to empty it will show all volumes if platform
Index: web/pgadmin/browser/__init__.py
IDEA additional info:
Subsystem: com.intellij.openapi.diff.impl.patch.CharsetEP
<+>UTF-8
===================================================================
--- web/pgadmin/browser/__init__.py (revision 8a550b569ff5aadb8c2d99cbef4a4233ab00e413)
+++ web/pgadmin/browser/__init__.py (date 1586431972063)
@@ -543,6 +543,38 @@
base_url=None
)
+ # Check the browser is a support version
+ # NOTE: If the checks here are updated, make sure the supported versions
+ # at https://www.pgadmin.org/faq/#11 are updated to match!
+ if config.CHECK_SUPPORTED_BROWSER:
+ browser = request.user_agent.browser
+ version = request.user_agent.version and int(
+ request.user_agent.version.split('.')[0])
+
+ browser_name = None
+ if browser == 'chrome' and version < 72:
+ browser_name = 'Chrome'
+ elif browser == 'firefox' and version < 65:
+ browser_name = 'Firefox'
+ elif browser == 'edge' and version < 44:
+ browser_name = 'Edge'
+ elif browser == 'safari' and version < 12:
+ browser_name = 'Safari'
+ elif browser == 'msie':
+ browser_name = 'Internet Explorer'
+ elif browser != 'chrome' and browser != 'firefox' and \
+ browser != 'edge' and browser != 'safari':
+ browser_name = browser
+
+ if browser_name is not None:
+ msg = render_template(
+ MODULE_NAME + "/browser.html",
+ version=version,
+ browser=browser_name
+ )
+
+ flash(msg, 'warning')
+
# Get the current version info from the website, and flash a message if
# the user is out of date, and the check is enabled.
if config.UPGRADE_CHECK_ENABLED:
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: Proposal: Drop support for Internet Explorer
@ 2020-04-09 18:26 Darren Duncan <[email protected]>
parent: Dave Page <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Darren Duncan @ 2020-04-09 18:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dave Page <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgAdmin Support <[email protected]>; pgadmin-hackers <[email protected]>; Akshay Joshi <[email protected]>
The patch looks good as much as I understand it, but this raises an important
question:
How should one best handle minority browsers that may be completely modern but
you may not specifically know about them? Such as the newer crop of browsers
that emphasize stronger privacy or may have fewer identifiers?
While going on a whitelist as the patch essentially does for known good browsers
is conservative, I feel that an alteration would be good.
I propose dividing the browsers/environments into 3 categories, which are
recognized-supported, recognized-unsupported, and unrecognized.
So the unsupported older versions of supported browsers get a stronger message
encouraging a browser switch as they are recognized as unsupported, while
unrecognized browsers get a different weaker message saying they weren't
recognized so we can't determine if they'd work; both can point to the list of
known supported browsers.
Related to this, there could be an application toggle that affects the
unrecognized category where users can basically say, yes I understand you don't
recognize this browser, please hide the warning, or something like that.
Also, it probably goes without saying, but the code/templates will need to be
structured in such a way that the warning message uses about plain as possible
HTML so that if the browser doesn't support displaying the UI in general it can
at least display the message.
-- Darren Duncan
On 2020-04-09 4:36 a.m., Dave Page wrote:
> Hi
>
> On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 12:26 AM Darren Duncan wrote:
>
> If its hard to know how many people are actually using Internet Explorer:
>
> You could make the next release of pgAdmin display a message occasionally to
> users of Internet Explorer saying that Internet Explorer will no longer be
> officially supported in a future version, and when that version comes the
> message says now no longer supported.
>
> You can then see how many people contact you about this to express concern.
>
>
> Good idea. I've hacked up a patch to warn users if they're using a deprecated or
> unsupported browser.
>
> CCing Akshay for a review :-)
>
> --
> Dave Page
> Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
> Twitter: @pgsnake
>
> EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
> The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: Proposal: Drop support for Internet Explorer
@ 2020-04-10 04:07 Khushboo Vashi <[email protected]>
parent: Darren Duncan <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Khushboo Vashi @ 2020-04-10 04:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Darren Duncan <[email protected]>; +Cc: Dave Page <[email protected]>; pgAdmin Support <[email protected]>; pgadmin-hackers <[email protected]>; Akshay Joshi <[email protected]>
On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 11:57 PM Darren Duncan <[email protected]>
wrote:
> The patch looks good as much as I understand it, but this raises an
> important
> question:
>
> How should one best handle minority browsers that may be completely modern
> but
> you may not specifically know about them? Such as the newer crop of
> browsers
> that emphasize stronger privacy or may have fewer identifiers?
>
> While going on a whitelist as the patch essentially does for known good
> browsers
> is conservative, I feel that an alteration would be good.
>
> I propose dividing the browsers/environments into 3 categories, which are
> recognized-supported, recognized-unsupported, and unrecognized.
>
> So the unsupported older versions of supported browsers get a stronger
> message
> encouraging a browser switch as they are recognized as unsupported, while
> unrecognized browsers get a different weaker message saying they weren't
> recognized so we can't determine if they'd work; both can point to the
> list of
> known supported browsers.
>
> I do agree with this suggestion.
> Related to this, there could be an application toggle that affects the
> unrecognized category where users can basically say, yes I understand you
> don't
> recognize this browser, please hide the warning, or something like that.
>
> Also, it probably goes without saying, but the code/templates will need to
> be
> structured in such a way that the warning message uses about plain as
> possible
> HTML so that if the browser doesn't support displaying the UI in general
> it can
> at least display the message.
>
> -- Darren Duncan
>
> On 2020-04-09 4:36 a.m., Dave Page wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 12:26 AM Darren Duncan wrote:
> >
> > If its hard to know how many people are actually using Internet
> Explorer:
> >
> > You could make the next release of pgAdmin display a message
> occasionally to
> > users of Internet Explorer saying that Internet Explorer will no
> longer be
> > officially supported in a future version, and when that version
> comes the
> > message says now no longer supported.
> >
> > You can then see how many people contact you about this to express
> concern.
> >
> >
> > Good idea. I've hacked up a patch to warn users if they're using a
> deprecated or
> > unsupported browser.
> >
> > CCing Akshay for a review :-)
> >
> > --
> > Dave Page
> > Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
> > Twitter: @pgsnake
> >
> > EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
> > The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
>
>
>
>
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: Proposal: Drop support for Internet Explorer
@ 2020-04-10 14:07 Bill Evans <[email protected]>
parent: Darren Duncan <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Bill Evans @ 2020-04-10 14:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Darren Duncan <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgAdmin Support <[email protected]>; pgadmin-hackers <[email protected]>
It is not doing people a favor to help them continue to use an unsupported browser that no longer receives security updates.
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 8, 2020, at 4:26 PM, Darren Duncan <[email protected]> wrote:
If its hard to know how many people are actually using Internet Explorer:
You could make the next release of pgAdmin display a message occasionally to users of Internet Explorer saying that Internet Explorer will no longer be officially supported in a future version, and when that version comes the message says now no longer supported.
You can then see how many people contact you about this to express concern.
-- Darren Duncan
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: Proposal: Drop support for Internet Explorer
@ 2020-04-10 15:04 Doug Reed <[email protected]>
parent: Bill Evans <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Doug Reed @ 2020-04-10 15:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Bill Evans <[email protected]>; +Cc: Darren Duncan <[email protected]>; pgAdmin Support <[email protected]>; pgadmin-hackers <[email protected]>
All,
Just my two cents. I am the CTO of CirrusPoint Solutions. We have an
Enterprise level Browser-based application that is used by very large
corporations as a network management and reporting dashboard. These huge
companies are almost always heavily Microsoft focused, and slow to
upgrade. Everyone has I.E. on their desktop, and are notorious for forcing
companies to conform to their whims and support stuff that belonged in the
trash years ago.
We "officially" dropped support for I.E. when we replaced Flash with HTML5
<YEARS> ago. There was almost no resistance at all. Corporate IT just
installed Chrome, or Firefox on users desktops and moved on. Everyone
knows that I.E. is not HTML5 compliant, and it kind-of works, but sometimes
doesn't. In my experience, the only one still using I.E. is the CTO who
doesn't know how to turn his computer on, and his secretary comes in and
shows him how to start Chrome and that's the end of it.
I can remember only getting one complaint from anyone ever, and when I
explained that Internet Explorer was written in a time before the Internet
had standards, and now it doesn't work right any more, he switched to
Chrome and was good with it.
On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 10:07 AM Bill Evans <[email protected]> wrote:
> It is not doing people a favor to help them continue to use an unsupported
> browser that no longer receives security updates.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Apr 8, 2020, at 4:26 PM, Darren Duncan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> If its hard to know how many people are actually using Internet Explorer:
>
> You could make the next release of pgAdmin display a message occasionally
> to users of Internet Explorer saying that Internet Explorer will no longer
> be officially supported in a future version, and when that version comes
> the message says now no longer supported.
>
> You can then see how many people contact you about this to express concern.
>
> -- Darren Duncan
>
>
>
>
>
--
Regards,
Doug
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: Proposal: Drop support for Internet Explorer
@ 2020-04-14 13:23 Dave Page <[email protected]>
parent: Khushboo Vashi <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Dave Page @ 2020-04-14 13:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Khushboo Vashi <[email protected]>; +Cc: Darren Duncan <[email protected]>; pgAdmin Support <[email protected]>; pgadmin-hackers <[email protected]>; Akshay Joshi <[email protected]>
Here's an updated patch that gives a slightly different message if the
browser is unknown vs. unsupported/deprecated. As with the previous patch,
the check can be disabled in the config.
On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 5:07 AM Khushboo Vashi <
[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 11:57 PM Darren Duncan <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> The patch looks good as much as I understand it, but this raises an
>> important
>> question:
>>
>> How should one best handle minority browsers that may be completely
>> modern but
>> you may not specifically know about them? Such as the newer crop of
>> browsers
>> that emphasize stronger privacy or may have fewer identifiers?
>>
>> While going on a whitelist as the patch essentially does for known good
>> browsers
>> is conservative, I feel that an alteration would be good.
>>
>> I propose dividing the browsers/environments into 3 categories, which are
>> recognized-supported, recognized-unsupported, and unrecognized.
>>
>
>> So the unsupported older versions of supported browsers get a stronger
>> message
>> encouraging a browser switch as they are recognized as unsupported, while
>> unrecognized browsers get a different weaker message saying they weren't
>> recognized so we can't determine if they'd work; both can point to the
>> list of
>> known supported browsers.
>>
>> I do agree with this suggestion.
>
>
>> Related to this, there could be an application toggle that affects the
>> unrecognized category where users can basically say, yes I understand you
>> don't
>> recognize this browser, please hide the warning, or something like that.
>>
>> Also, it probably goes without saying, but the code/templates will need
>> to be
>> structured in such a way that the warning message uses about plain as
>> possible
>> HTML so that if the browser doesn't support displaying the UI in general
>> it can
>> at least display the message.
>>
>> -- Darren Duncan
>>
>> On 2020-04-09 4:36 a.m., Dave Page wrote:
>> > Hi
>> >
>> > On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 12:26 AM Darren Duncan wrote:
>> >
>> > If its hard to know how many people are actually using Internet
>> Explorer:
>> >
>> > You could make the next release of pgAdmin display a message
>> occasionally to
>> > users of Internet Explorer saying that Internet Explorer will no
>> longer be
>> > officially supported in a future version, and when that version
>> comes the
>> > message says now no longer supported.
>> >
>> > You can then see how many people contact you about this to express
>> concern.
>> >
>> >
>> > Good idea. I've hacked up a patch to warn users if they're using a
>> deprecated or
>> > unsupported browser.
>> >
>> > CCing Akshay for a review :-)
>> >
>> > --
>> > Dave Page
>> > Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
>> > Twitter: @pgsnake
>> >
>> > EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
>> > The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
>>
>>
>>
>>
--
Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake
EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: Proposal: Drop support for Internet Explorer
@ 2020-04-14 14:45 Neel Patel <[email protected]>
parent: Dave Page <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Neel Patel @ 2020-04-14 14:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dave Page <[email protected]>; +Cc: Khushboo Vashi <[email protected]>; Darren Duncan <[email protected]>; pgAdmin Support <[email protected]>; pgadmin-hackers <[email protected]>; Akshay Joshi <[email protected]>
Hi Dave,
Looks like patch is missing in attachment.
Thanks,
Neel Patel
On Tue 14 Apr, 2020, 6:53 PM Dave Page, <[email protected]> wrote:
> Here's an updated patch that gives a slightly different message if the
> browser is unknown vs. unsupported/deprecated. As with the previous patch,
> the check can be disabled in the config.
>
> On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 5:07 AM Khushboo Vashi <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 11:57 PM Darren Duncan <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The patch looks good as much as I understand it, but this raises an
>>> important
>>> question:
>>>
>>> How should one best handle minority browsers that may be completely
>>> modern but
>>> you may not specifically know about them? Such as the newer crop of
>>> browsers
>>> that emphasize stronger privacy or may have fewer identifiers?
>>>
>>> While going on a whitelist as the patch essentially does for known good
>>> browsers
>>> is conservative, I feel that an alteration would be good.
>>>
>>> I propose dividing the browsers/environments into 3 categories, which
>>> are
>>> recognized-supported, recognized-unsupported, and unrecognized.
>>>
>>
>>> So the unsupported older versions of supported browsers get a stronger
>>> message
>>> encouraging a browser switch as they are recognized as unsupported,
>>> while
>>> unrecognized browsers get a different weaker message saying they weren't
>>> recognized so we can't determine if they'd work; both can point to the
>>> list of
>>> known supported browsers.
>>>
>>> I do agree with this suggestion.
>>
>>
>>> Related to this, there could be an application toggle that affects the
>>> unrecognized category where users can basically say, yes I understand
>>> you don't
>>> recognize this browser, please hide the warning, or something like that.
>>>
>>> Also, it probably goes without saying, but the code/templates will need
>>> to be
>>> structured in such a way that the warning message uses about plain as
>>> possible
>>> HTML so that if the browser doesn't support displaying the UI in general
>>> it can
>>> at least display the message.
>>>
>>> -- Darren Duncan
>>>
>>> On 2020-04-09 4:36 a.m., Dave Page wrote:
>>> > Hi
>>> >
>>> > On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 12:26 AM Darren Duncan wrote:
>>> >
>>> > If its hard to know how many people are actually using Internet
>>> Explorer:
>>> >
>>> > You could make the next release of pgAdmin display a message
>>> occasionally to
>>> > users of Internet Explorer saying that Internet Explorer will no
>>> longer be
>>> > officially supported in a future version, and when that version
>>> comes the
>>> > message says now no longer supported.
>>> >
>>> > You can then see how many people contact you about this to express
>>> concern.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Good idea. I've hacked up a patch to warn users if they're using a
>>> deprecated or
>>> > unsupported browser.
>>> >
>>> > CCing Akshay for a review :-)
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Dave Page
>>> > Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
>>> > Twitter: @pgsnake
>>> >
>>> > EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
>>> > The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
> --
> Dave Page
> Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
> Twitter: @pgsnake
>
> EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
> The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
>
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: Proposal: Drop support for Internet Explorer
@ 2020-04-14 14:46 Dave Page <[email protected]>
parent: Neel Patel <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 2 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Dave Page @ 2020-04-14 14:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Neel Patel <[email protected]>; +Cc: Khushboo Vashi <[email protected]>; Darren Duncan <[email protected]>; pgAdmin Support <[email protected]>; pgadmin-hackers <[email protected]>; Akshay Joshi <[email protected]>
Ooops. Thanks for catching that. Here it is.
On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 3:45 PM Neel Patel <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Hi Dave,
>
> Looks like patch is missing in attachment.
>
> Thanks,
> Neel Patel
>
>
> On Tue 14 Apr, 2020, 6:53 PM Dave Page, <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Here's an updated patch that gives a slightly different message if the
>> browser is unknown vs. unsupported/deprecated. As with the previous patch,
>> the check can be disabled in the config.
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 5:07 AM Khushboo Vashi <
>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 11:57 PM Darren Duncan <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The patch looks good as much as I understand it, but this raises an
>>>> important
>>>> question:
>>>>
>>>> How should one best handle minority browsers that may be completely
>>>> modern but
>>>> you may not specifically know about them? Such as the newer crop of
>>>> browsers
>>>> that emphasize stronger privacy or may have fewer identifiers?
>>>>
>>>> While going on a whitelist as the patch essentially does for known good
>>>> browsers
>>>> is conservative, I feel that an alteration would be good.
>>>>
>>>> I propose dividing the browsers/environments into 3 categories, which
>>>> are
>>>> recognized-supported, recognized-unsupported, and unrecognized.
>>>>
>>>
>>>> So the unsupported older versions of supported browsers get a stronger
>>>> message
>>>> encouraging a browser switch as they are recognized as unsupported,
>>>> while
>>>> unrecognized browsers get a different weaker message saying they
>>>> weren't
>>>> recognized so we can't determine if they'd work; both can point to the
>>>> list of
>>>> known supported browsers.
>>>>
>>>> I do agree with this suggestion.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Related to this, there could be an application toggle that affects the
>>>> unrecognized category where users can basically say, yes I understand
>>>> you don't
>>>> recognize this browser, please hide the warning, or something like that.
>>>>
>>>> Also, it probably goes without saying, but the code/templates will need
>>>> to be
>>>> structured in such a way that the warning message uses about plain as
>>>> possible
>>>> HTML so that if the browser doesn't support displaying the UI in
>>>> general it can
>>>> at least display the message.
>>>>
>>>> -- Darren Duncan
>>>>
>>>> On 2020-04-09 4:36 a.m., Dave Page wrote:
>>>> > Hi
>>>> >
>>>> > On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 12:26 AM Darren Duncan wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > If its hard to know how many people are actually using Internet
>>>> Explorer:
>>>> >
>>>> > You could make the next release of pgAdmin display a message
>>>> occasionally to
>>>> > users of Internet Explorer saying that Internet Explorer will no
>>>> longer be
>>>> > officially supported in a future version, and when that version
>>>> comes the
>>>> > message says now no longer supported.
>>>> >
>>>> > You can then see how many people contact you about this to
>>>> express concern.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Good idea. I've hacked up a patch to warn users if they're using a
>>>> deprecated or
>>>> > unsupported browser.
>>>> >
>>>> > CCing Akshay for a review :-)
>>>> >
>>>> > --
>>>> > Dave Page
>>>> > Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
>>>> > Twitter: @pgsnake
>>>> >
>>>> > EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
>>>> > The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>> --
>> Dave Page
>> Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
>> Twitter: @pgsnake
>>
>> EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
>> The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
>>
>
--
Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake
EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
Attachments:
[application/octet-stream] Warn_if_using_a_deprecated_or_unsupported_browser_v2.patch (3.6K, 3-Warn_if_using_a_deprecated_or_unsupported_browser_v2.patch)
download | inline diff:
Index: web/pgadmin/browser/templates/browser/browser.html
IDEA additional info:
Subsystem: com.intellij.openapi.diff.impl.patch.CharsetEP
<+>UTF-8
===================================================================
--- web/pgadmin/browser/templates/browser/browser.html (date 1586870426046)
+++ web/pgadmin/browser/templates/browser/browser.html (date 1586870426046)
@@ -0,0 +1,13 @@
+{% if known %}
+<p>{{ _('Your browser was detected as <strong>{0}</strong> version
+ <strong>{1}</strong>, which is either deprecated or not supported by
+ pgAdmin 4.').format(browser, version) }}</p>
+{% else %}
+<p>{{ _('Your browser was detected as <strong>{0}</strong> version
+ <strong>{1}</strong>, which pgAdmin has not been tested with. pgAdmin may
+ not work as expected, and any issues reported when using this browser may
+ not be fixed.').format(browser, version) }}</p>
+{% endif %}
+<p>{{ _('Please visit the <a class="alert-link"
+ href="https://www.pgadmin.org/faq/#11" target="_new">FAQ</a> to see the
+ supported browsers.') }}</p>
Index: web/config.py
IDEA additional info:
Subsystem: com.intellij.openapi.diff.impl.patch.CharsetEP
<+>UTF-8
===================================================================
--- web/config.py (revision 65bc196ebab314178bf9523f91ef9f9f07d5e4e8)
+++ web/config.py (date 1586869660607)
@@ -359,6 +359,9 @@
CA_FILE = os.path.join(os.path.dirname(os.path.realpath(__file__)),
"cacert.pem")
+# Check if the detected browser is supported
+CHECK_SUPPORTED_BROWSER = True
+
##########################################################################
# Storage Manager storage url config settings
# If user sets STORAGE_DIR to empty it will show all volumes if platform
Index: web/pgadmin/browser/__init__.py
IDEA additional info:
Subsystem: com.intellij.openapi.diff.impl.patch.CharsetEP
<+>UTF-8
===================================================================
--- web/pgadmin/browser/__init__.py (revision 65bc196ebab314178bf9523f91ef9f9f07d5e4e8)
+++ web/pgadmin/browser/__init__.py (date 1586870498522)
@@ -543,6 +543,41 @@
base_url=None
)
+ # Check the browser is a support version
+ # NOTE: If the checks here are updated, make sure the supported versions
+ # at https://www.pgadmin.org/faq/#11 are updated to match!
+ if config.CHECK_SUPPORTED_BROWSER:
+ browser = request.user_agent.browser
+ version = request.user_agent.version and int(
+ request.user_agent.version.split('.')[0])
+
+ browser_name = None
+ browser_known = True
+ if browser == 'chrome' and version < 72:
+ browser_name = 'Chrome'
+ elif browser == 'firefox' and version < 65:
+ browser_name = 'Firefox'
+ elif browser == 'edge' and version < 44:
+ browser_name = 'Edge'
+ elif browser == 'safari' and version < 12:
+ browser_name = 'Safari'
+ elif browser == 'msie':
+ browser_name = 'Internet Explorer'
+ elif browser != 'chrom' and browser != 'firefox' and \
+ browser != 'edge' and browser != 'safari':
+ browser_name = browser
+ browser_known = False
+
+ if browser_name is not None:
+ msg = render_template(
+ MODULE_NAME + "/browser.html",
+ version=version,
+ browser=browser_name,
+ known=browser_known
+ )
+
+ flash(msg, 'warning')
+
# Get the current version info from the website, and flash a message if
# the user is out of date, and the check is enabled.
if config.UPGRADE_CHECK_ENABLED:
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: Proposal: Drop support for Internet Explorer
@ 2020-04-14 15:47 Akshay Joshi <[email protected]>
parent: Dave Page <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Akshay Joshi @ 2020-04-14 15:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dave Page <[email protected]>; +Cc: Neel Patel <[email protected]>; Khushboo Vashi <[email protected]>; Darren Duncan <[email protected]>; pgAdmin Support <[email protected]>; pgadmin-hackers <[email protected]>
Thanks, patch applied.
On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 8:17 PM Dave Page <[email protected]> wrote:
> Ooops. Thanks for catching that. Here it is.
>
> On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 3:45 PM Neel Patel <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Dave,
>>
>> Looks like patch is missing in attachment.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Neel Patel
>>
>>
>> On Tue 14 Apr, 2020, 6:53 PM Dave Page, <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Here's an updated patch that gives a slightly different message if the
>>> browser is unknown vs. unsupported/deprecated. As with the previous patch,
>>> the check can be disabled in the config.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 5:07 AM Khushboo Vashi <
>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 11:57 PM Darren Duncan <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The patch looks good as much as I understand it, but this raises an
>>>>> important
>>>>> question:
>>>>>
>>>>> How should one best handle minority browsers that may be completely
>>>>> modern but
>>>>> you may not specifically know about them? Such as the newer crop of
>>>>> browsers
>>>>> that emphasize stronger privacy or may have fewer identifiers?
>>>>>
>>>>> While going on a whitelist as the patch essentially does for known
>>>>> good browsers
>>>>> is conservative, I feel that an alteration would be good.
>>>>>
>>>>> I propose dividing the browsers/environments into 3 categories, which
>>>>> are
>>>>> recognized-supported, recognized-unsupported, and unrecognized.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> So the unsupported older versions of supported browsers get a stronger
>>>>> message
>>>>> encouraging a browser switch as they are recognized as unsupported,
>>>>> while
>>>>> unrecognized browsers get a different weaker message saying they
>>>>> weren't
>>>>> recognized so we can't determine if they'd work; both can point to the
>>>>> list of
>>>>> known supported browsers.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do agree with this suggestion.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Related to this, there could be an application toggle that affects the
>>>>> unrecognized category where users can basically say, yes I understand
>>>>> you don't
>>>>> recognize this browser, please hide the warning, or something like
>>>>> that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, it probably goes without saying, but the code/templates will
>>>>> need to be
>>>>> structured in such a way that the warning message uses about plain as
>>>>> possible
>>>>> HTML so that if the browser doesn't support displaying the UI in
>>>>> general it can
>>>>> at least display the message.
>>>>>
>>>>> -- Darren Duncan
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2020-04-09 4:36 a.m., Dave Page wrote:
>>>>> > Hi
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 12:26 AM Darren Duncan wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> > If its hard to know how many people are actually using Internet
>>>>> Explorer:
>>>>> >
>>>>> > You could make the next release of pgAdmin display a message
>>>>> occasionally to
>>>>> > users of Internet Explorer saying that Internet Explorer will no
>>>>> longer be
>>>>> > officially supported in a future version, and when that version
>>>>> comes the
>>>>> > message says now no longer supported.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > You can then see how many people contact you about this to
>>>>> express concern.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Good idea. I've hacked up a patch to warn users if they're using a
>>>>> deprecated or
>>>>> > unsupported browser.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > CCing Akshay for a review :-)
>>>>> >
>>>>> > --
>>>>> > Dave Page
>>>>> > Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
>>>>> > Twitter: @pgsnake
>>>>> >
>>>>> > EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
>>>>> > The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Dave Page
>>> Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
>>> Twitter: @pgsnake
>>>
>>> EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
>>> The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
>>>
>>
>
> --
> Dave Page
> Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
> Twitter: @pgsnake
>
> EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
> The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
>
--
*Thanks & Regards*
*Akshay Joshi*
*Sr. Software Architect*
*EnterpriseDB Software India Private Limited*
*Mobile: +91 976-788-8246*
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: Proposal: Drop support for Internet Explorer
@ 2020-04-14 17:51 Darren Duncan <[email protected]>
parent: Dave Page <[email protected]>
1 sibling, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Darren Duncan @ 2020-04-14 17:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dave Page <[email protected]>; Neel Patel <[email protected]>; +Cc: Khushboo Vashi <[email protected]>; pgAdmin Support <[email protected]>; pgadmin-hackers <[email protected]>; Akshay Joshi <[email protected]>
You have a typo `elif browser != 'chrom'` but otherwise I see no problems with
the patch, thank you. -- Darren Duncan
On 2020-04-14 7:46 a.m., Dave Page wrote:
> Ooops. Thanks for catching that. Here it is.
>
> On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 3:45 PM Neel Patel <[email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>
> Hi Dave,
>
> Looks like patch is missing in attachment.
>
> Thanks,
> Neel Patel
>
>
> On Tue 14 Apr, 2020, 6:53 PM Dave Page, <[email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>
> Here's an updated patch that gives a slightly different message if the
> browser is unknown vs. unsupported/deprecated. As with the previous
> patch, the check can be disabled in the config.
>
> On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 5:07 AM Khushboo Vashi
> <[email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 11:57 PM Darren Duncan
> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>
> The patch looks good as much as I understand it, but this raises
> an important
> question:
>
> How should one best handle minority browsers that may be
> completely modern but
> you may not specifically know about them? Such as the newer
> crop of browsers
> that emphasize stronger privacy or may have fewer identifiers?
>
> While going on a whitelist as the patch essentially does for
> known good browsers
> is conservative, I feel that an alteration would be good.
>
> I propose dividing the browsers/environments into 3 categories,
> which are
> recognized-supported, recognized-unsupported, and unrecognized.
>
>
> So the unsupported older versions of supported browsers get a
> stronger message
> encouraging a browser switch as they are recognized as
> unsupported, while
> unrecognized browsers get a different weaker message saying they
> weren't
> recognized so we can't determine if they'd work; both can point
> to the list of
> known supported browsers.
>
> I do agree with this suggestion.
>
> Related to this, there could be an application toggle that
> affects the
> unrecognized category where users can basically say, yes I
> understand you don't
> recognize this browser, please hide the warning, or something
> like that.
>
> Also, it probably goes without saying, but the code/templates
> will need to be
> structured in such a way that the warning message uses about
> plain as possible
> HTML so that if the browser doesn't support displaying the UI in
> general it can
> at least display the message.
>
> -- Darren Duncan
>
> On 2020-04-09 4:36 a.m., Dave Page wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 12:26 AM Darren Duncan wrote:
> >
> > If its hard to know how many people are actually using
> Internet Explorer:
> >
> > You could make the next release of pgAdmin display a
> message occasionally to
> > users of Internet Explorer saying that Internet Explorer
> will no longer be
> > officially supported in a future version, and when that
> version comes the
> > message says now no longer supported.
> >
> > You can then see how many people contact you about this
> to express concern.
> >
> >
> > Good idea. I've hacked up a patch to warn users if they're
> using a deprecated or
> > unsupported browser.
> >
> > CCing Akshay for a review :-)
> >
> > --
> > Dave Page
> > Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
> > Twitter: @pgsnake
> >
> > EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
> > The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Dave Page
> Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
> Twitter: @pgsnake
>
> EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
> The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
>
>
>
> --
> Dave Page
> Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
> Twitter: @pgsnake
>
> EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
> The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: Proposal: Drop support for Internet Explorer
@ 2020-04-14 20:07 Dave Page <[email protected]>
parent: Darren Duncan <[email protected]>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Dave Page @ 2020-04-14 20:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Darren Duncan <[email protected]>; +Cc: Akshay Joshi <[email protected]>; Khushboo Vashi <[email protected]>; Neel Patel <[email protected]>; pgAdmin Support <[email protected]>; pgadmin-hackers <[email protected]>
On Tue, 14 Apr 2020 at 18:51, Darren Duncan <[email protected]> wrote:
> You have a typo `elif browser != 'chrom'` but otherwise I see no problems
> with
> the patch, thank you. -- Darren Duncan
Well spotted. That was an intentional testing artefact (deliberating
causing Chrome to not be recognised), but Akshay also spotted it before
committing:-)
>
>
> On 2020-04-14 7:46 a.m., Dave Page wrote:
> > Ooops. Thanks for catching that. Here it is.
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 3:45 PM Neel Patel <[email protected]
> > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Dave,
> >
> > Looks like patch is missing in attachment.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Neel Patel
> >
> >
> > On Tue 14 Apr, 2020, 6:53 PM Dave Page, <[email protected]
> > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> >
> > Here's an updated patch that gives a slightly different message
> if the
> > browser is unknown vs. unsupported/deprecated. As with the
> previous
> > patch, the check can be disabled in the config.
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 5:07 AM Khushboo Vashi
> > <[email protected]
> > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 11:57 PM Darren Duncan
> > <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
> wrote:
> >
> > The patch looks good as much as I understand it, but
> this raises
> > an important
> > question:
> >
> > How should one best handle minority browsers that may be
> > completely modern but
> > you may not specifically know about them? Such as the
> newer
> > crop of browsers
> > that emphasize stronger privacy or may have fewer
> identifiers?
> >
> > While going on a whitelist as the patch essentially does
> for
> > known good browsers
> > is conservative, I feel that an alteration would be good.
> >
> > I propose dividing the browsers/environments into 3
> categories,
> > which are
> > recognized-supported, recognized-unsupported, and
> unrecognized.
> >
> >
> > So the unsupported older versions of supported browsers
> get a
> > stronger message
> > encouraging a browser switch as they are recognized as
> > unsupported, while
> > unrecognized browsers get a different weaker message
> saying they
> > weren't
> > recognized so we can't determine if they'd work; both
> can point
> > to the list of
> > known supported browsers.
> >
> > I do agree with this suggestion.
> >
> > Related to this, there could be an application toggle
> that
> > affects the
> > unrecognized category where users can basically say, yes
> I
> > understand you don't
> > recognize this browser, please hide the warning, or
> something
> > like that.
> >
> > Also, it probably goes without saying, but the
> code/templates
> > will need to be
> > structured in such a way that the warning message uses
> about
> > plain as possible
> > HTML so that if the browser doesn't support displaying
> the UI in
> > general it can
> > at least display the message.
> >
> > -- Darren Duncan
> >
> > On 2020-04-09 4:36 a.m., Dave Page wrote:
> > > Hi
> > >
> > > On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 12:26 AM Darren Duncan wrote:
> > >
> > > If its hard to know how many people are actually
> using
> > Internet Explorer:
> > >
> > > You could make the next release of pgAdmin
> display a
> > message occasionally to
> > > users of Internet Explorer saying that Internet
> Explorer
> > will no longer be
> > > officially supported in a future version, and
> when that
> > version comes the
> > > message says now no longer supported.
> > >
> > > You can then see how many people contact you
> about this
> > to express concern.
> > >
> > >
> > > Good idea. I've hacked up a patch to warn users if
> they're
> > using a deprecated or
> > > unsupported browser.
> > >
> > > CCing Akshay for a review :-)
> > >
> > > --
> > > Dave Page
> > > Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
> > > Twitter: @pgsnake
> > >
> > > EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
> > > The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Dave Page
> > Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
> > Twitter: @pgsnake
> >
> > EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
> > The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Dave Page
> > Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
> > Twitter: @pgsnake
> >
> > EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
> > The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
>
> --
--
Dave Page
https://pgsnake.blogspot.com
EDB Postgres
https://www.enterprisedb.com
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 19+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2020-04-14 20:07 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 19+ messages (download: mbox mbox.gz follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2020-04-07 07:36 Proposal: Drop support for Internet Explorer Dave Page <[email protected]>
2020-04-07 11:41 ` Dave Caughey <[email protected]>
2020-04-07 12:00 ` Dave Page <[email protected]>
2020-04-07 12:34 ` richard coleman <[email protected]>
2020-04-08 08:17 ` Dave Page <[email protected]>
2020-04-07 18:45 ` Jack Royal-Gordon <[email protected]>
2020-04-07 19:06 ` Ken Benson <[email protected]>
2020-04-08 23:26 ` Darren Duncan <[email protected]>
2020-04-09 11:36 ` Dave Page <[email protected]>
2020-04-09 18:26 ` Darren Duncan <[email protected]>
2020-04-10 04:07 ` Khushboo Vashi <[email protected]>
2020-04-14 13:23 ` Dave Page <[email protected]>
2020-04-14 14:45 ` Neel Patel <[email protected]>
2020-04-14 14:46 ` Dave Page <[email protected]>
2020-04-14 15:47 ` Akshay Joshi <[email protected]>
2020-04-14 17:51 ` Darren Duncan <[email protected]>
2020-04-14 20:07 ` Dave Page <[email protected]>
2020-04-10 14:07 ` Bill Evans <[email protected]>
2020-04-10 15:04 ` Doug Reed <[email protected]>
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